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Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 4


TravJ1979

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Killing the business with all the unrealistic selling and moves since the beginning of times...

In a total different topic, it will never cease to amuse me that DDP's girlfriend (now wife) last name was McMahon. And since her first name is Payge, she's now Payge Page. Can't get more pro-wrestling than this. She's a beast too, not kidding at all when she's the one directing around those DDPYoga workouts.

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On 12/20/2021 at 4:26 PM, sek69 said:

Well yes, that was what I meant. At the time the impression I got was that we were supposed to believe Backlund did kinda get screwed and it warped his goody-two-shoes mind. I never watched the full match until now, and seeing it context of the match just made quite the contrast that I wasn't expecting. 

I wonder if Vince was expecting Bob to stick around as an attraction.  Akin to Bruno after losing to both Koloff and Graham.

Otherwise I could see them leaning into an “Arnold threw it in too early” angle as soon as that night.

Looks like Bob was gone by early August of 1984 though.

I mean sure at the time you lean into Sheiky Baby being a dangerous and underhanded creep to keep him formidable for Hogan at the next show.  And he wouldn’t be seen as that strong if he and Blassie had nothing to do, in terms of the storyline logic anyway, with winning the title.  

But if it was clear Bob was going to run out the clock on his deal, then (not really planting seeds for a future return), but you can use “my manager threw in the towel too early” as the reason, or the catalyst for kayfabe disillusionment for his impending departure from the promotion.

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The story has always been that VKM wanted Backlund to dye his hair and turn heel for a program with Hogan. He refused and was fired. In a possibly related story, Bill Eadie has claimed that he was the original choice for the Iron Sheik transitional champion role, but Backlund refused to drop the belt to him because he didn't have an amateur background. I don't know if I buy that, though.

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Vince knew that there was going to be a subset of fans that weren't going to like the new direction the WWF was going in.  I know the gag is that the masses didn't like Backlund as champ but he absolutely had his fanbase who loved and rooted for him that were very different from the audience that Vince tried to appeal to.  There was a small dislike of Hogan, specifically in the Northeast, from this vocal portion of the fanbase who were already half smartened up to the business that didn't think of Hogan as a real and worthy champion.  In the coming months, after he takes a little bit of time off outside of spot show stuff, they would film vignettes of Backlund at his home and hanging out with his family and talking about his future plans in the business.  He never says it outright, but even in these 1984 promos he says stuff like, "I know I've heard some of my fans don't believe that I ever truly lost that title, and I promise you that I will try to regain it soon."

Vince was absolutely doing everything in his power to program Backlund and Hogan against each other.  He really wanted the idea of a bitter and jealous Backlund (and now you know where the caricature stuff in 1994 came from) possibly even turning heel over this to challenge Hulk.  He felt like Backlund needed to do an actual torch passing to close the book on that era of the WWF.  Backlund took one look at Hulk and dismissed him immediately and flat out refused, riding the pine of the rest of his contract until it ran out.  When Backlund joined up with Pro Wrestling USA, his first few promos were taking direct shots at the WWF, and especially at Hulk Hogan.  "I promise as champion I won't tell the kids out there to not take a pill and then do it behind their back", he was 100% subtweeting (:D) about Hulk and his moral "train, say your prayers, take your vitamins" schtick.

 

EDIT to add:

The story has always been that VKM wanted Backlund to dye his hair and turn heel for a program with Hogan. He refused and was fired. In a possibly related story, Bill Eadie has claimed that he was the original choice for the Iron Sheik transitional champion role, but Backlund refused to drop the belt to him because he didn't have an amateur background. I don't know if I buy that, though.

I have heard that story about Backlund too and I do believe there are small kernels of truth to it (in that Vince, in a moment of desperation, proposed that idea to Backlund knowing there was no hope in hell that Backlund would accept it), but it's definitely off base.  RE: Eadie.  He was definitely considered for the transitional run with the title.  As far as I know, it was between him, Sheik, and Ivan Koloff.  I have heard the amateur background story but haven't heard enough one way or the other to confirm if it's true or not though.

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Yeah there's no way 1984 Bob Backlund is going to agree to turn heel even if you held him at gunpoint. The idea that Vince suggested it sounds like he was trying to pull one of his moves where he asks someone to do something he knows they will never agree to so he can paint them as unreasonable. I would gather Bob saw that BS coming a mile away and just noped out.

 

Also looking back, there really wasn't any other person that would be a better transitional champ than Sheik. The cartoony Iranian heel is the perfect launching point for Hulkamania, I suppose maybe Ivan would have worked too, but he wasn't as over the top as Sheiky and the Iran/US tension was more of a hot button at the time than the usual US/USSR deal.  

Actually, I've always wondered if maybe giving Sheik a little longer with the title to build heat would have made the eventual Hulk win even bigger and maybe some of  the markets that were initially rough to break into would have had an easier time, but obviously things worked out pretty well the way they did it. 

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Heel Backlund forcing Hulk to grapple like Regal/Goldberg would have been pretty lol. I've never really understood the talk about fans not being into Backlund. Crowds seem exceptionally hot for him in damn near every match in all the major cites I've seen from the time he wins the title to dropping it to Sheik.

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58 minutes ago, sek69 said:

Actually, I've always wondered if maybe giving Sheik a little longer with the title to build heat would have made the eventual Hulk win even bigger and maybe some of  the markets that were initially rough to break into would have had an easier time, but obviously things worked out pretty well the way they did it. 

I honestly don't think you could have had a hotter reaction to that title change even with a longer build. It was such a seismic shift in the style of title matches that they had seen from Backlund and his challengers for six years that the sheer brute force of Hogan's win and the brevity of the match added a ton to the title changing hands. It was against what the fans were used to and probably expecting in terms of a title match, and it going in favor of the new face on the block was probably as apex a launching point as was possible.

 

 

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Hogan in 1980 more than held up his end in long title matches with Backlund from Philly. A 1984 version would've been very interesting and probably pretty good imo.

Speaking of Skaaland going heel on Bob with the towel finish, I remember reading about something in, I think, the update section in the back of an issue of PWI around 1989 involving Bob and Sheik doing a televised angle somewhere where Sheik told Bob that Skaaland had been paid off to throw in the towel. I have no idea where this took place, but I'm pretty sure it happened somewhere and wasn't just a magazine angle even though I've never seen it. Anyone have any clue about this? 

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1 hour ago, Ricky Jackson said:

Yeah, that's the thing. I cant figure out where it would've fit in. Maybe some short lived indy in the Northeast? 

I have in my head that it was an angle started by ICW to build to an eventual Sheik vs Backlund rematch during the time that Iron Sheik was in between the brief 1989 WCW run and his return to WWF as Col. Mustafa. 

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As Backlund tells it in his book, he was told straight-up that he was losing the title to the Sheik. He was allowed to come up with the finish but there is zero mention of him being insistent on jobbing to a guy with an amateur background--that kind of power play really wasn't Backlund's style. 

Also, looking at a few message board posts on this topic...Hogan signing with the WWF was supposedly done on Thanksgiving weekend in 1983. By that time, the Backlund-Superstar program was over. I think it really comes down to Sheik being the next scheduled challenger when it was time to make the switch--had Hogan been signed a month or two before, maybe Superstar wins the title. A month after, and the scheduled January challenger (Paul Orndorff) likely gets it. 

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Some more moves you start seeing in 1950-1953:

 

 

An accidental RKO: https://photos.app.goo.gl/bEEwJ54mN4RiycMv8

An accidental Rock Bottom https://photos.app.goo.gl/m4xsJ6dGfz2ZSguA6

The wrap arm in ropes and kick the ropes spot https://photos.app.goo.gl/sQkiNAx6Be6igvoE9 https://photos.app.goo.gl/eDMkwUxAGADUHA997

Piledrivers https://photos.app.goo.gl/Tq2XwvYMxjaHvjiH6 https://photos.app.goo.gl/bJg718H1yu9STcgDA https://photos.app.goo.gl/gwkQVPaxT4nC56SYA https://photos.app.goo.gl/iAps4pMvBYKtKaJv5 https://photos.app.goo.gl/sFDZTNs8kJ4MfDxp8 https://photos.app.goo.gl/eR4NuCsuLPwig6Bs9

The Backdrop https://photos.app.goo.gl/XqvabyDek5EKFABP7 https://photos.app.goo.gl/MTGAxpPzRVE7ohJF8 https://photos.app.goo.gl/iuSvgH45VjP5xG2N9

Mounted corner punches https://photos.app.goo.gl/CtdZhAF3KqQTcxfX9

Powerbombs https://photos.app.goo.gl/kcK7f1dNA85zzzAx9 https://photos.app.goo.gl/JCsaXWgwcwHNB8Yq6 https://photos.app.goo.gl/6ubaQK8iQinhbSqMA https://photos.app.goo.gl/KCeGgNCYHsiAFWss6 https://photos.app.goo.gl/T61p2SA5zg6m1nLx8

The bulldog https://photos.app.goo.gl/uGkKytzRix1DFDXPA https://photos.app.goo.gl/VhkZrkbg1PxEFQRE6 https://photos.app.goo.gl/znBjQZ7hXUiHWUfZ9

 

You also start seeing the cobra clutch and torture rack, but one thing that REALLY stands out is EVERYONE had an absolutely brutal knee strike. Be it like a clinch knee strike or more like a knee lift, even the shittiest dudes had knee strikes that could easily be a finish today. Also Gorgeous George has the greatest headlock takeover of all time and Lou Thesz was a hell of a bumper. I would also say it's interesting how many falls end in hitting a finish or big move 3-5 times in a row. 

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