Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 4

[sek69]

PWI was, as Pete stated, reaching out to the first wave of smartened up internet fans who very much felt that Malenko/Benoit/Eddie types were being wasted by the old farts in WCW so it would be the easy play for the magazine to suck up to them by saying "yeah we agree those guys you like are the best".

[pmo]

6 minutes ago, PeteF3 said:

Let's be real: despite my rationalization, it was still pretty nuts. If Malenko and Benoit were the two best wrestlers then why weren't they World Champions, you know?

Oh agree totally.  At least with Malenko he was “World Cruiserweight Champion” so technically it was a world title in a way .  They probably were trying to mimic The Ring boxing mag which would often give their fighter of year awards to the lower weight classes if their wasn’t a definitive heavyweight (which common by the 90s).  So Malenko was sort of the “pound for pound” best in 96-97.  Unlike Benoit, they could kayfabe justify it with 3 world titles in his weight class and then jumping up a weight class to get US. 

[MLB]

21 minutes ago, PeteF3 said:

I can't remember where I read this, but I recently saw where one of the writers apparently said that they were seriously kicking around the idea of giving the #1 spot to Mitsuharu Misawa, but it was decided that in 1997 they couldn't sell a magazine with a Japan-based wrestler on the cover, so they went with another smark favorite in Malenko.

This is a plausible explanation as Misawa was #2.

26 minutes ago, pmo said:

Dean also had come off a big year in 96/97 getting 3 cruiserweight titles and the US title along with big feuds with Rey, Ultimo, syxx, and Eddie. 

Yeah, look at his opponents. Not exactly broomsticks.

7 minutes ago, sek69 said:

PWI was, as Pete stated, reaching out to the first wave of smartened up internet fans who very much felt that Malenko/Benoit/Eddie types were being wasted by the old farts in WCW so it would be the easy play for the magazine to suck up to them by saying "yeah we agree those guys you like are the best".

That's pretty good clarification, I suspected that was the case.

[MLB]

29 minutes ago, PeteF3 said:

Austin wasn't Austin yet. 

Austin was #3 and definitely the hottest act in the world by the end of 1997.

[fxnj]

Am I missing something about Bret's year? He seems a super obvious choice for a US focused list for being the best in-ring guy and making massive strides to improve his promo work. I always thought he was also beloved by smarks at the time.

[NintendoLogic]

Stu Saks explained at the time that the top candidates all had marks against them (Bret and Shawn were injured/inactive for much of the year, Undertaker had a slow start, Hogan rarely defended the WCW title, Austin lost most of his high-profile matches, Misawa was Japanese), so they decided to give the top slot to who they considered the best technical wrestler.

[Ricky Jackson]

This brings me back to how disappointed I was almost every year in the 90s when i bought the awards issue and saw Bret didn't win Wrestler of the Year. I guess maybe 94 was his best chance, but I remember being pissed he didn't even place in 97. Then Montreal happened and I didn't care anymore lol

[C.S.]

15 hours ago, MLB said:

I've been digging through old PWI 500's of late. I'm sincerely dumbfounded that Dean Malenko was #1 in 1997. How in the blue hell did that happen? I thought PWI was supposed to be a mark magazine!  Why all the hoopla over Malenko in 1997?  Dean looked like a glorified referee with some decent technical moves but they put him over Stone Cold and Kobashi! 

The internet was rising then, and "smart fans" loved "good workers" like Dean Malenko.

It was an effective publicity stunt - nothing more, nothing less - and it worked.

[MLB]

10 minutes ago, C.S. said:

The internet was rising them, and "smart fans" loved "good workers" like Dean Malenko.

It was an effective publicity stunt - nothing more, nothing less - and it worked.

Interesting time for the magazines, you guys really broke it down well. I thought, well then why not Eddy, Rey, or Benoit as #1 but they were considered "foreign" like Misawa. Then you had Bret and Shawn as heels (and putting Bret #1 would've ruffled WWF's feathers). Austin was hurt, I see Apter's logic there.

Malenko was in the right spot at the right time, I guess.

[ohtani's jacket]

I love me some Dean Malenko. 

[MLB]

Yeah @ohtani's jacket it sounds like I'm trying to tear down Dean but #1 was a bold statement to make.

[pmo]

6 hours ago, MLB said:

Interesting time for the magazines, you guys really broke it down well. I thought, well then why not Eddy, Rey, or Benoit as #1 but they were considered "foreign" like Misawa. Then you had Bret and Shawn as heels (and putting Bret #1 would've ruffled WWF's feathers). Austin was hurt, I see Apter's logic there.

Malenko was in the right spot at the right time, I guess.

Yeah, but let's go through it.  I am going to make the assumption that the list is probably locked in by Sept/Oct 97 so let's make the assumption that basically Oct 97 is the cutoff

Benoit was in the midst of being buried by Sullivan for the Nancy thing and when he wasn't he was stuck tagging with Mongo (who was getting title shots over him).  He doesn't sniff a title until 98 so he's out

Rey also didn't have a great early 97 being stuck fueding with Prince Iaukea and not really touching the belt until late 97 and even then a quick reign before dropping back to Eddy

Eddy has probably the best case where he came into 97 but dropped the belt to Dean and had a heel turn then feuded with Jericho until the he got cruiserweight title late in 97.  My guess is the Rey/Eddy happened after they finished the list so really the best part of his year is missed.

So yeah Dean has the right hot streak during the time period they're looking at.  The only other guy in that similar l spot was DDP, who finished 5th and while liked wasn't held in the regard Malenko was.  Jericho had won the cruiserweight title a bunch but really was still in bouncy Babyface Jericho which was not great.  So it Dean it is the ...

[JRH]

Actually, the range for the PWI 500 was August to August (so, in this case, August 96 to August 97).

[pmo]

8 hours ago, JRH said:

Actually, the range for the PWI 500 was August to August (so, in this case, August 96 to August 97).

Yeah then it makes even more sense because it means that it includes the back half of the Mysterio/Malenko Feud which includes another title reign for Dean.  It cuts out the last quarter of 97 where Dean is much less involved.  For Rey it's neutral as while he picks up a title reign he loses one and the Eddie Feud which was the best thing he did in 97.  Eddie loses his Cruiser reigns and the Rey feud as well.  So both guys lose something while Dean only gains'

It also makes sense for why the WWE guys didn't sneak in here.  Hart is out until November, Austin really isn't Austin until the Bret match, and Shawn early-mid 97 is such a disaster you're swapping out one good run for another.  Taker is like Rey as he gains the Mankind feud but loses the Shawn/Kane Feud

So yeah things just fell into place here for Dean really.   The big names all had down/Incomplete years and he is clearly above his peers.

[Mr JMML]

Dean Malenko's 1996 is amazing, his matches against Benoit, Rey Mysterio and Último Dragón are phenomenal.

[JRH]

Personally, Hogan getting #2 on the 1994 PWI 500 was much more ludicrous. I guess he deserved a slot due to him winning the WCW title before the cutoff date, but did he do anything else list-worthy between August 93 and August 94?

[pmo]

1 hour ago, JRH said:

Personally, Hogan getting #2 on the 1994 PWI 500 was much more ludicrous. I guess he deserved a slot due to him winning the WCW title before the cutoff date, but did he do anything else list-worthy between August 93 and August 94?

Not too much.  Cagematch has his last WWF tour where he was beating Yoko by DQ.  He then pops on the G1 Climax Special tour, tagging with Mutoh to defeat the Hellraisers and getting his win back from May on the final night of the tour.  He also beats Fujinami at the 1/4 dome show.   So not much besides WCW but what did do was high profile NJPW stuff.  Still nutty he has like 10 matches (9-1) and gets #2.  Only thing is I can thing of they wanted the two American heavyweight champs 1 and 2....

[Ricky Jackson]

It seems like there was a lot of ass kissing of Hogan by PWI in 94. The worst example being when instead of getting the traditional plaque for winning Wrestler of the Year he was given this giant ass trophy that I don't recall anyone else ever receiving

[khawk20]

38 minutes ago, Ricky Jackson said:

It seems like there was a lot of ass kissing of Hogan by PWI in 94. The worst example being when instead of getting the traditional plaque for winning Wrestler of the Year he was given this giant ass trophy that I don't recall anyone else ever receiving

Hogan was no longer with the Evil Empire, he was in WCW so “he’s ok now” would have been a big part of the publications mentality there.

 

when Vince banned photographers and wrestler access to the Weston mags in 84, it set the tone for how those mags reported things for decades. WCW was always, always better, even when they reported something that sided with the WWF.

funny how those mags still ran Hogan on the cover (often in badly cut out photoshops) every second month anyways though. 
 

I was as “i hate the territories dying” of a fan as anyone more than a casual fan could have been, but it was even ridiculous to me what those mags were doing with the “NWA/WCW is better” mantra.
 

[strobogo]

A sidebar of the thigh slap debate:

 

The super headbutt spot with obscene thigh slap should be banned from the entire industry. It looks atrocious even with camera cuts and angles to hide things, can't imagine how dogshit those look in person. It's far more egregious than any superkick. 

Examples: Toni Storm, Drew McIntyre, Yota Tsuji, Timothy Thatcher. All very different wrestlers in different promotions all doing the most dogshit spot. Ban it. 

[sek69]

I would just ban top rope headbutt type moves period, slap or no slap. As you said it looks atrocious 90% of the time, if you fuck it up you give each other severe head trauma. There's no upside here. 

On 8/9/2023 at 5:04 PM, khawk20 said:

Hogan was no longer with the Evil Empire, he was in WCW so “he’s ok now” would have been a big part of the publications mentality there.

 

when Vince banned photographers and wrestler access to the Weston mags in 84, it set the tone for how those mags reported things for decades. WCW was always, always better, even when they reported something that sided with the WWF.

funny how those mags still ran Hogan on the cover (often in badly cut out photoshops) every second month anyways though. 
 

I was as “i hate the territories dying” of a fan as anyone more than a casual fan could have been, but it was even ridiculous to me what those mags were doing with the “NWA/WCW is better” mantra.
 

Funny how as a kid I never noticed the bias since I too felt NWA/WCW was better. It is pretty apparent looking back, but at the time I was like "yeah this all checks out".  It wasn't until 97-98 that I thought the WWF was the better product. 

[KawadaSmile]

Very, very few wrestlers can pull off convincing headbutts. Fujiwara, Funk, sometimes Onita. The secret is in the leg swing. 

[MLB]

The headbutt was an essential move for some wrestlers like JYD, Bobo Brazil, and Meng. Taking away the coco butt from Bobo is like taking the chops from Flair, what are you left with for offense? 

[strobogo]

Those aren't the kind of headbutts I'm talking about. I'm talking about the kind that end strike battles and are usually to the jaw/neck/collarbone area and get a double thigh slap that looks like garbage every time in every company. Although really, all headbutts should be illegal. I don't think there is a single combat sport where headbutts are legal.

[NintendoLogic]

Headbutts are legal in the Burmese martial art of Lethwei.