[2000-01-01-CMLL] Zumbido & Mr Mexico & Violencia vs Solar & Antifaz del Norte & Pantera

[Loss]

This was a fun way to get PWO2K going! Solar has been a favorite since I went through 1990 EMLL, but lots of the other guys were fairly new to me. The ones that stood out the most were Zumbido and Violencia. Violencia is terrific at setting up other guys for spots and eating moves. If I'm a high flyer, I want Violencia as my opponent every night of the week. Zumbido is just awesome -- he does the Shawn Michaels working style, but pairs good flying offense with the exaggerated bumping. There were a couple of rough moments -- Mr. Mexico's dive at the end was pretty awkward, and the attempted backbreaker from Solar at the beginning didn't quite hit the mark. Fans in the building seemed a little bored, but in 13 minutes, they accomplished what I hoped they would -- showcase some guys and get me pumped for the decade ahead. ***

[Grimmas]

Are these on the youtube?

[Loss]

No.

[soup23]

So we begin. I will be using most of these early matches to give insight to my perspective coming into this project, but lucha is really hazy overall and probably the one area I see where a framework will really have to be worked on with me watching this stuff. As of now, when I think of 2000's lucha, I mainly think of the rise of Mistico and the Apache feud. This match gives a template of what we can look forward to beyond that spectrum without it being a spectacular match by any means. This does feel like baseline lucha but there does seem to be positives or negatives to extract from most of the workers here. Zumbido is someone I have always enjoyed based on his scuzzy look and rudo tendencies. He really impressed here and him vs. Solar was obviously the showcase pairing. Solar is another person I am really looking forward to see more of as I mainly think of him as maestro worker and the El Mariachi match with Blue Panther. He has a great classic look and this match allowed him to have some fire that isn't normally seen in his later years. Violencia was the other standout and was someone I am unfamiliar with completely. I did a quick look at our master spreadsheet and I see a lot more upcoming from him which made me excited. Pantera was inoffensive and didn't add much to the preceding. I thought Antifaz and Mr. Mexico was negatives especially Mr. Mexico who was out of position, had weak strikes, and blew his dive in spectacular fashion. The falls here were quick and frantic and it was satisfactory to see Zumbido get the clean fall in the Tercera. Away we go with 2000. **1/2

[Grimmas]

We are in the period where I first tried to watch lucha, early 2000s around the time of the famous Atlantis-Villano III match. I hope to watch all the lucha in this 2000 series. I really can't manage all the stuff.

 

To start we have a ridiculously awesome technico team, with all guys I love, so that's promising. The first fall was fine, but nothing special. I did love Solar flexing to taunt Mr. Mexico. It's weird thinking back to when I first watched some 2000 CMLL and that Mr. Mexico stands out as a guy I thought was great. The second fall was just a quick rudo beat down.

 

The third fall saw everybody having a highlight with the two best, for me, being Mr. Mexico's flop over the top rope and Pantera doing his between turnbuckles dive which I always mark out for. A pretty good trios match that I am always happy to watch.

 

Rating: ** 3/4

[benj]

Like Grimmas, my first real dive into Lucha was early 2000's, Atlantis-Villano III, and CMLL finally being on at 12:30am in my area. I remember trying to tape it every week, and waking up never knowing if it was going to be a soccer match, random soap opera, or the same episode of CMLL from the previous week that had been taped.

 

This match had good action, and kind of got out of control late with that wild Mr. Mexico bump/botched dive through the ropes. Zumbido was a stand out here, CMLL 2000 should be fun on re-watch.

[Tim Evans]

Also like Grimmas and Benj, this was around the time I started watching Lucha so I'm familiar with all these guys. Fun low card type match with some good highspots and some awkward stuff too. The first fall featured Violencia and Zumbido trying to out bump each other. Zumbido looked like 1995 Psicosis with the bumps he was taking. It's wild to see Violencia like this compared to how he was just a couple years later with Pierroth. Mr. Mexico is a favorite of mine just for his facials and his look. It's textbook rudo. He's not the best wrestler but he doesn't have to be. Reminds me of Rick rude a lot. Tecnicos were fine with Antifaz looking the best. He's so much smaller here than he was in Monterrey. Good match.

[cramerjason87]

This was around the time I was first exposed to lucha so I was excited to see this. Zumbido stood out with his smooth bumping. The Mr. Mexico flip to the floor/botched dive in the third was the highlight of the match. Fun stuff.

 

Getting back into this era of lucha is going to be great.

[KB8]

This was fairly by-the-numbers, but it had its moments and the third caida was pretty frantic. I don't know if I've ever seen Mr. Mexico before, but he wasn't great in this and I'm not in a hurry to do a deep dive on him. That botched dive was sort of spectacular, though. Violencia's bumping was really fun. He had a knack for waiting until the very last second before rotating all the way over, so there were a couple points where it looked like he was about to land right on his neck. Antifaz had a cracking mask and his dive was nice, but otherwise he was just kind of there. I'll echo the Zumbido praise as well; I dug him quite a bit.

[Ship Canal]

Having only really gotten into lucha in the last two years, this was quite challenging to watch for a number of reasons. Firstly, I've gotten onto lucha more or less entirely through posts on this board in The Microscope/GWE etc, so my lucha watching has involved a lot of high volume from a select amount of guys, most of whom are considered at the very least highly notable, if not necessarily top 100 material. This has meant that I've sort of started at the blow offs to a lot of feuds and worked backwards. At this point, while I'm probably the most well versed in lucha of the friends I watch and talk about wrestling with, in places like this I'm very much a beginner compared to some of you guys. I like that though, I feel like this project should help me to get a good handle on where lucha was at during this period. I've watched the DVDVR best of the 80s and 90s lucha sets etc, but I feel like watching more of this baseline stuff, as I think Chad described it, is useful to get a better read on the style at the whole during the time.

Anyway, I've seen very little of any of these guys apart from Solar and Antifaz, and even then I've not taken in anywhere as much as I have the likes of Casas, Satanico, EHDS etc etc. I really enjoyed Solar during this, it felt like everything he did was weighted just right to lead into something else and he was never selfish and seemed to know when to let his team mates shine as well.

Would I be right in thinking he was the biggest star on that tecnico side at this time? As I say, my grasp of the context here is virtually non existent

That bump on the outside from Mr Mexico made me wince!

The first fall was fine, but nothing special. I did love Solar flexing to taunt Mr. Mexico. It's weird thinking back to when I first watched some 2000 CMLL and that Mr. Mexico stands out as a guy I thought was great.

It's funny you say that Grimmas, my initial thoughts, as someone going in cold, were that Mr Mexico carried himself with a fair degree of charisma but that didn't translate well into much else past the initial jostling with Solar. I thought he looked like a badass though. Is this near the beginning, middle or end of his career?

[Laney]

This is a real blind spot for me. Good enough first fall that was dominated by the technicos, but the second fall ended almost as soon as it begins. The third fall was a lot of fun with Mr. Mexico almost killing himself on a dive being the moment that sticks out the most. Zumbido was the stand-out of this match. Unique execution of moves and smooth selling. I look forward to seeing more from him. Kind of awkward with the amount of rudos miscommunication in the third fall that didn't really go anywhere since they pick up the victory. I know it's not the lucha libre style, but this is match that seems to me would have worked better if it was one fall.

 

I rate this **3/4, just missing the *** mark.

[soup23]

Ship Canal, I would say Solar was the biggest star of the tecnico side here although him vs. Pantera is pretty close.

[AstroBoy]

Oh boy. If I was being kind I would call myself a lucha novice. Realistically I know very little lucha and still find the style to be a bit jarring at times. Not to say I don't enjoy it or didn't enjoy this.

 

Initial impressions are hell yeah Zumbido is awesome in this. Beautiful moonsault, awesome crazy bump over the top to the floor. It's always interesting to see someone for the first time and come away with such a strong impression. I want to know if it will carry over as I watch more of him throughout the year.

 

I suspect as I watch more of this style I'll be more able to pick out things I like and dislike instead of trying to comprehend it. I will say that the missed spinning kick spot in the tercera was all kinds of ugly. Of course the botched dive too. Other than that I did enjoy it. I'm getting my feet wet here but I have never found that I dislike lucha when I delve into it. It will just take more familiarity.

[fishbaugh]

I'm a sucker for matches where things feel a bit out of control (something that can be accomplished in many different ways), so I really loved the third fall. Have to echo everyone else and say that Zumbido bumping around like a maniac and Mr. Mexico flopping on his dive were the highlights. With a couple more minutes, this could have gone beyond fun into something really good, but I enjoyed what we did get.

[Matt Franklin]

I liked this as a popcorn lucha match, but nothing I think I'll remember as I go forward in this project. First time seeing Zumbido, and like many above I love his reckless bumping style, the over the top bump was great but I think I liked his missed splash into the turnbucks even more, he really ate it on that one. Definitely want to see more of him. Solar looked good also, really liked his tope in the tercera. I was surprised to see Pantera bust out a super frankensteiner to little recation in the primera, at least it led to the finish

 

Mr. Mexico, Antifaz did nothing for me. Antifaz comes off like a CAW luchador from the late 90's, while Mr Mexico seemed very stiff, culminating in his kinda hilarious botch towards the end.

 

Overall, as a match this was fun but no real story or anything to really sink your teeth into.

 

**1/2

[Karl]

I liked this a lot, in as much as it was all go all the time and never got dull. However, it is in the grand scheme, nothing special. A solid **1/2 match

[puropotsy]

I thought the exchanges between Solar and VIolencia in the first fall looked a little rough but they both did much better in the rest of the match. I really liked Solar's backbreakers and surfboard in the third fall as well as his tope. I enjoyed Antifaz and this is a good way to expand my knowledge of him beyond being a guy I once saw in ECW. His dive in the third fall was great. Zumbido was a stand-out in this match holding things together and I liked his corkscrew elbowdrops.

[concrete1992]

This match poses a bit of a problem for me as everything I rate *** or above goes on a spreadsheet and I will try to do a write up for. It doesn't take much to get to *** as it isn't entirely based on quality and at that point based on whether I care to remember it when I go back to that given year.

 

I'm not sure that match did anything that makes me care if I remember it when i go back to this year. I mean it was fine and the Mr. Mexico dive was DEFINITELY something but never felt like anyone hit that one move or sequence that made me go "Oh, yep, there we go" or something along those lines. A match that felt "just there" which sucks because trios matches are probably my favorite type of matches.

 

Zumido's corkscrews were a hoot though.

[Chess Knight]

I don't even know if I'm exaggerating when I say this is the first time I've seen Solar in a match without Navarro or Blue Panther. For that reason my memory of Solar (been years since I watched anything of him) was a mat-focused guy in totality, who basically always worked like a maestro. So it was cool as hell so see him do the little explosive stuff at the beginning, I really like his arm drags. The shoving match with Mr. Mexico in the 1st fall was so great. I love when lucha workers get that "oh no you don't, eat this!" attitude behind them. Zumbido's a totally wild bumper, you know he and Psicosis never worked a ladder match together because they're both still alive in 2017. I know it's pretty standard formula for a trios to give fall 1 to the tecnicos, fall 2 to the rudos, and then either continue rudo domination or have both sides go out on fall 3, but it's a formula I've not grown any less fond of. I thought the way this was structured was good, if not special, is what I'm getting at. Thought this was well worth the watch and not just for curiosity's sake. Not a super super really good trio or anything but if a weekly wrestling show had a match similar to this every episode, I'd probably make sure to tune in for a good few months at least. Except I didn't do that when the Shield were hot so completely ignore me.

 

Mr. Mexico's dive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mr. Mexico's dive.

[Moonsault Marvin]

This was an okay match. I liked Violencia's mask and hair. Solar seemed like he was having an off night compared to matches that I watched him in for GWE. Zumbido really stood out with his high flying and corkscrews. They all kept the pace really fast.

 

I haven't watched any lucha in about 6 months, and it always takes me several matches to adapt to it. Everybody getting pinned or submitting all at once always bugs me. I also never understand the pin where they hop up and down, but the ref keeps counting, even with the shoulders leaving the mat.

[GOTNW]

A pretty standard trios match-some nice action in the beginning with the rudos doing awesome short clotheslines for cut-offs and the chaotic ending with a bunch of dives was as fun as you'd expect but the middle of the match didn't really offer much, the beatdown was quite formulaic. Fun for what it was. **3/4

[ohtani's jacket]

This was all right. In a month that was dominated by rudo beatdowns, I appreciated the fact that they started off with a tecnico fall and worked a rudo comeback. Solar did a decent job of directing traffic. He was a couple of years away from the beginning of his rivalry with Negro Navarro. A rivalry that would reinvent if not revitalise his career. The first match of theirs I've seen is from around 2002. Navarro still has hair and hadn't adopted his asskicker gimmick yet. Zumbido showed some promise here and would go on to play a bigger role in CMLL in 2003-04.

[goc]

This was ok but really sloppy at times and no one really stood out to me except for Mr. Mexico solely based on a look/character basis. That guy is my kind of wrestler.

[bucky]

So here I am doing the thing where I start with the very first match in the project, and will be watching probably about 80% of everything until I find a rhythm and decide which promotions I want to drop and which I want to go forward with. I wanted to get in on this in February, but then my mom died and I had to plan the funeral on my own. Then I didn't feel like watching wrestling for a month or so. It's been weird, but I'm glad to be aboard. Thank you Charles (and Chad) for setting this all up.

 

I feel like I don't really need to go back and rewatch much of the puro, but there's a few interesting prospects. I'd like to watch all the Osaka Pro, Toryumon and MPro in the collection, and the idea of watching every Tenryu match on tape from 2000 to 2009 also sounds like a hoot. I'm going to be ranking things month by month in five sections: MOTYC, Very Good Shit, Good Shit, Fun/Weird/Worth Watching For Other Reasons, and Bad/Very Bad/Do Not Watch This Shit. Anyways, that's my preamble.

 

Early 2000s lucha is definitely not something I know well, but the technicos team here is pretty enticing. I don't know Antifaz well, but I like to think he's working a post-modern anti-fascist gimmick and that the rudos are GOP dudes. That's the meta story I've written for this match. Violencia is Paul Ryan under a mask. Fun quick primera, heels do a little schtick, Pantera does an insane top rope frankensteiner. Segunda is the formulaic inverse of the first, heels dominate and get the fall quickly. Zumbido has some real dumb offense, which sets the stage for the rest of January 2000, a month sure to have no shortage of dumb fucking offensive maneuvers. I do like this rudo trio, throwing Antifaz around, stomping and chopping, they know their roles well. The technico comeback in the tercera is decent.

 

As odd as it is to say, Solar might have the weakest performance in this match. I guess my perception of him is through those Navarro-tinted glasses, but I was not feeling his stuff here at all. Decent tope though. Zumbido takes a pair of awesome bumps in succession, one off a slingshot that is comical, and then an over the corner bump that looked like it was sped up. Pantera hits an insane inside-the-post tope, a la Cavernario, and Mr Mexico either misses a tope con hilo or just bumps over the top to the floor for no good reason. Antifaz hits a nice tornillo plancha, then Zumbido with an awesome moonsault for the pin.

 

This will be filed in the Good Shit section, probably on the low end. But hey, right now I have it ranked as the best match of the 2000s!

[Stiva]

Nice little opener to PWO2K as I'm trying everything to see what I'll stick with going forward. I won't try and repeat too much of what others have said but I agree that Mr. Mexico has a great look but he was sadly overshadowed by his fellow rudos here. I thought Zumbido looked fantastic; he was getting awesome height on his bumps (the bump over the turnbuckle was incredible) and cut a great pace and smoothness on offense. The third caida was a great chaotic finale and, for what this had to do, it was fine.