Wrestlemania

[WingedEagle]

Great show. I loved Bayley/Charlotte/Sasha/Nia, Brock vs. Goldberg and Roman vs. Taker. All were great and memorable. Cena did his thing and kept it short. Hardy's were a terrific moment and made a questionable match a very fun one. Trips/Rollins gave us Steph despite being exactly what it shouldn't have been. Bray/Orton was horrific and would've been comically so had we not been 6 hours into the show but at least you guys made it fun.

 

Overall this show very much exceeded expectations and was truly fun and memorable. Tonight we do it again! Can't believe I'm awake what feels like a few minutes after it ended.

[El-P]

HHH got more time than Cena, Orton/Wyatt, and the Lesnar/Goldberg sprint combined.

 

You surprised ?

 

Yes, it was better than last year's atrocity. But damn, the show went off a cliff completely after the mixed-tag. That HHH vs Rollins - Orton vs Bray - Pittbull concert never-ending tunnel of suck was unbearable. And then what came after was mosty "ok for what it was". Taker's post-match send-off was nice, the match was good until it got all sappy and fake-drama. The only legit really good matches were the women's four-way, the ladder clusterfuck, mostly thanks to the Hardy showing up which made it completely insane, and the mixed-tag which was fun bullshit.

 

It was *better* than I expected, but I would not call it *good* by any strecht of the imagination. Mediocre, with some fun peak moments.

 

First off, scrap those ten minutes recap before each match. We know what the fuck is happening.

 

Mania is still a chore, mostly.

 

This thread was tons of fun though.

[Herodes]

Last show I watched on the Network prior to Mania was a Prime Time from 1986 with a main event of Big John Studd vs Ted Arcidi. As you can imagine it wasn't a classic but in terms of telling the story it should have told and crowd heat reacting to the story it was better than anything on Mania with the exception of Goldberg vs Lesnar. Everything else was pretty awful and/or heatless and fell short of Studd/Arcidi standards.

[RingoPlaysDrums]

Really good show that probably had no right to be as good as it was. Build seems more lacklustre than ever and my interest in the product has never been lower but I ended up sitting through all of this with no problems. In contrast to last year's show which I still haven't managed to get through. Enjoyed almost everything. Most matches were either good or had something else going for them to keep my attention. Got a bit choked up during Charlotte's entrance. And again at the end with Taker's farewell. Orton/Bray was the worst thing in the show. When Bray came to the ring his star felt higher than it'd been in a long while. That's kind of gone again now.

[cowboy hats]

Who goes into the hall of fame first? Gronkowski or Roker?

[Mad Dog]

So where do you even go with Randy Orton as champion?

[El-P]

Into the void. As always.

[FMKK]

So where do you even go with Randy Orton as champion?

They did a backstage bit with AJ saying he's after the title now so that's going to be the next programme. With Cena supposedly taking some time out now, they could do with a draft to freshen up Smackdown. I'd love to see the likes of Rusev get a new lease of life over there.

[WingedEagle]

So where do you even go with Randy Orton as champion?

 

This combined with Cena's absence over the next few months create a big gap at the top there. I figured an Orton win was likely as him vs. AJ is a new pairing and presumably we'll see that title program sooner rather than later. Curious to see how any call-ups or potential draft changes things.

[WingedEagle]

Remember when people liked talking about how the company was out to get Reigns? Despite headlining 1, then 2 and now 3 Manias? Amazing how that took off for a bit.

[Cap]

I see a lot of people felt the way I did about this being the tale of two halves. I really liked the first three matches. I thought they all over-delieverd in a way.

 

I liked Brock/Goldberg fine, but I wasn't a fan of the build at all so I was hoping for more violence to make up for it. I imagine I will like it more on rewatch.

 

I kind of feel the same way about Taker/Reigns. Aside from a that one spot where they couldn't make the tombstone reversal work, I didn't think it was bad, but the match itself felt like it was flatter than it should have been. I am not 100% sure Reigns is quite ready to deliver the kind of drama and acting that they wanted from him to make those moments work. I am on board with Reigns and I think he is overall good, but this required a skillset that I am just not sure he has just yet. The goodbye was very well done though and that was the real show.

 

I think Orton winning was easily the lowlight of the show and really killed the momentum (another reason I might have been a little more down on Brock/Goldberg than others - I was still frustrated). I really don't understand what the point of all that was. Orton getting the best of Wyatt is just not interesting to me and doubling down by making him champ to boot seems like such a waste. All of this just felt like it was designed to rebuild Wyatt and add a layer to him and then he gets knocked out by Orton.... bleh.

 

Tag Ladder and the couples tag were both fun. They were well put together and did exactly what they were designed to do. I could not care less about Cena/Bella, but the whole thing was pretty well done. I am also not as into the Hardy's (I like Matt, but don't really care for Jeff), but again, that was a lot of fun and really felt like a big moment.

 

I couldn't get into Rollins/HHH. I actually said "ohhh fuck off!" during their thousand reversals segment. Just not my thing. I'll watch it again because it might be better out of the context of 12 hours of wrestling (which is more or less what I watched yesterday).

[thebrainfollower]

This was my return to WWE, not having seen a show for many years. I agree with everything EL-P says, to be honest by hour 5 I was bored out of my mind and just wanted it to be over. Didn't see much from the ladies beyond Charlotte's shooting star press that made me think they were that great, but a 12 minute elimination match is a bad set up to begin with. The mixed tag was stupid fun I guess, Miz getting the reaction of the night was amusing. HHH-Rollins made no sense and dulled me but I cannot get into a HHH Match. The Undertaker thing made me sad, he could barely do anything, and most of what he did he messed up. Roman did the best he could but this push has to be the most stubborn idiotic thing I've seen Vince do.

 

Also the commentary, is that WWE today? Just a series of meaningless catch phrases and social media hype with no attempt by the announcers to actually TALK to each other and have a good conversation?

 

If this was miles better than last year, I am grateful I missed it. This show gave me zero desire to go back to WWE. I will stick with my old stuff gladly.

[Jmare007]

Remember when people liked talking about how the company was out to get Reigns? Despite headlining 1, then 2 and now 3 Manias? Amazing how that took off for a bit.

 

I'm sure Dylan still believes in the Political Hit theory.

[rzombie1988]

Last show I watched on the Network prior to Mania was a Prime Time from 1986 with a main event of Big John Studd vs Ted Arcidi. As you can imagine it wasn't a classic but in terms of telling the story it should have told and crowd heat reacting to the story it was better than anything on Mania with the exception of Goldberg vs Lesnar. Everything else was pretty awful and/or heatless and fell short of Studd/Arcidi standards.

That's one really good thing about the less is more approach and being limited - You really have to get the most out of what you can do.

 

I would rather work with one of those guys over most of the current wrestlers any day as at least at the end, I might eat a potato or two, but I'm not getting dropped on my head.

[rzombie1988]

 

Remember when people liked talking about how the company was out to get Reigns? Despite headlining 1, then 2 and now 3 Manias? Amazing how that took off for a bit.

 

I'm sure Dylan still believes in the Political Hit theory.

 

I mean, does this Taker win get him over more or more liked or anything? No, it's only going to make that worse. He's never going to be what they want him to be no matter how much they bury everyone else. There's no way they aren't aware of this. They can keep pushing him forever I guess, but WWE's already been in a 2 decade long decline and this will just speed it up.

 

There's really no point in watching main WWE programming right now if you like anyone but Roman, because they aren't going anywhere or are going to do anything as long as he's around. That's kind of why I stopped. What's the point really?

[goc]

So I watched WrestleMania this morning, or most of it, I skipped HHH/Rollins and Wyatt/Orton because I wanted to get to Goldberg/Lesnar and Taker/Reigns and reading this thread I probably won't go back to watch those. I thought it was overall a good show and way better than last year.

 

I don't know why people feel this overwhelming NEED to watch it live if they aren't in the building because I can assure you it's far more enjoyable when you can skip the videos, entrances & other filler.

 

The pre-show was pretty good, I really liked Neville/Aries and dug the finish and Neville going to Aries' eye to get out of the Last Chancery. I liked Mojo winning the battle royal because I said on twitter that if Braun wasn't going to win it then the next best thing would be Mojo. I don't care what people say about him, Mojo is going to be a big star for WWE. I didn't really care for Corbin/Ambrose though.

 

AJ/Shane was WAY better than I expected it to be. I guess I can kind of see where people would not like how evenly matched it was but fuck it, I thought it was a damn good match and one of the best matches on the show. Certainly better than Jericho/Owens which did nothing for me and had the misfortune of having to immediately follow it.

 

The Raw women's title four way started off REALLY good with Nia Jax looking like a great monster heel but then she got eliminated and things kind of went downhill. Sasha and Charlotte's eliminations both felt really anticlimactic. The right person won though.

 

The tag title match was a fun car crash type match and The Hardys winning was a nice moment but I also feel like them coming back really took away a chance to give Enzo & Cass a big moment of their own.

 

I found the mixed tag to be a big disappointment honestly. I guess I shouldn't have expected a great match out of it but Miz just dominating Cena leading to a hot tag and a quick finish didn't do much for me. I felt if they were gonna go that route then they should have just let Nikki get the spotlight and the win on her own. The post match proposal was predictable but also fun wrestling BS and I hope we get an in ring wedding to go along with their real one.

 

I skipped HHH/Rollins & Orton/Bray and will probably never go back and watch them. No big loss as I don't care about any of those guys as wrestlers or characters.

 

I thought Goldberg/Lesnar was really good and exactly what it needed to be. I was kind of surprised they didn't give Goldberg a small comeback but it was probably better that they didn't.

 

Roman/Taker was probably too long but it was about as good a match as you can get out of Taker in his current state. The amount of people trying to act like the match wasn't great because of ROMAN is mind boggling in it's stupidity.

[FMKK]

Good idea on skipping those matches. With Pitbull in between there was an hour long period where the only thing of any entertainment value was HHH's entrance and Stephanie taking a table bump. Goldberg and Lesnar was really needed to revive the crowd after all that. I'd have liked one more flurry from Goldberg at the end too but they've got to make Brock dominant again after taking those losses.

 

Loving the Twitter reactions of the dorks crying over Reigns winning. Smarks are the new biggest marks.

[KawadaSmile]

On rewatch, Taker/Roman is way better and doesn't feel as long.

 

I did enjoy Roman's super spear at the end. Taker was outright fucked.

[jcmmnx]

Roman's lack of charisma really came through to me in this match. He just doesn't feel like a big enough deal to be closing Mania's to me. Good worker, good look, but I just don't see a star when I watch him perform. If he had half of Asuka's swagger or in ring charisma I could buy him as a top guy.

[Herodes]

They should have had Roman come back to the ring while Taker is symbolically removing his mma gloves and beat the shot out of him, set his gear on fire and leave him laying in a ring projected with maggots to close the show, anything to really add some heat on a performer which they never do. Instead it's a mawkish goodbye and #thankyoutaker no doubt with some network special to follow of all the marks in the back applauding and tweeting memories. There's. I desire to go all out on the heat, the crowd dislike Roman anyway which is a rarity (there's no real heel heat for Owens, triple h, mix, Wyatt), here was a chance to put some real nuclear heat on someone but they would rather go for he applause and thank you bullshit.

[goc]

i kind of admire Vince's hard-headedness at this point. This is a man on a mission that is never going to succeed. Anyone else would have put down the sail a while ago, but not Vince.

The year was 2006. People were saying this exact same thing about John Cena. He went on to become the biggest star in pro wrestling.

 

The year was 2007. People were saying this exact same thing about John Cena. He went on to become the biggest star in pro wrestling.

 

The year was 2008. People were...ahh you get the point I hope.

[Kronos]

I posted a pic of Taker's hat and coat in the empty ring as my facebook header image.

 

Someone responded: Whoa, you scared me for a minute! I thought Taker had passed away!

[rzombie1988]

 

i kind of admire Vince's hard-headedness at this point. This is a man on a mission that is never going to succeed. Anyone else would have put down the sail a while ago, but not Vince.

The year was 2006. People were saying this exact same thing about John Cena. He went on to become the biggest star in pro wrestling.

 

The year was 2007. People were saying this exact same thing about John Cena. He went on to become the biggest star in pro wrestling.

 

The year was 2008. People were...ahh you get the point I hope.

 

Cena's booking was absolutely atrocious. So bad that I wrote about it:http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/36821-wwes-awful-booking-of-cena-from-2005-2006/

 

Cena was and is a much bigger star than Reigns. He drew better and more people were watching each week, but his longterm forced push also did cause WWE to lose 25% of it's audience during its time: https://staticseekingalpha.a.ssl.fastly.net/uploads/2015/12/2/36229206-1449098933444331-Wayne-Duggan.png

[Herodes]

Roman is the only star they have along with Cena and Brock. Have him come out tonight with Takers hat and coat and threaten to burn it, some valiant babyfaves run in (fired up, no intricate sequences and without music playing on queue after a dramatic pause from Roman) and get some heat back into wrestling finally. Listening to that bored crowd yesterday was awful.

[Herodes]

Obviously it should end with babyfaces buried underneath the coat, not ending segments with faces getting the upper hand