No Mercy 2017

[goc]

Multiple endorsements of Roman by other top guys being met with loud booing just makes WWE look increasingly sad and desperate. Vince vs his own audience is the one feud Im really tired of at this point.

If you're still watching then he's still winning.

[Jimmy James]

I don't think I've ever swung back and forth on a wrestler within a few years as much as I have with Brock Lesnar. I think my issue with him right now isn't that he's repetitive, but that his best aseet- his believably, sometimes gets wasted when he just looks like he doesn't give a shit. When your best asset is that you're a believable killer, nothing is worse than a match where you win after going through the motions.

[goc]

I still think people acting like Roman is a "failure" couldn't be more wrong. Step outside of the PWO/wreddit bubble and you'll see the guy has a TON of fans on twitter. I guess you could be a jackass and pretend they "don't count" because a lot of them are younger female fans but when they are buying his merchandise and paying for tickets to see him at WWE shows & autograph signings I'm not sure why they wouldn't. You can't be selling more merchandise than anyone else and be a "failure."

 

It's like there is this weird revisionism that's happened with Cena now where people are pretending he wasn't rejected by the same parts of the audience rejecting Roman now from 2006 until he started to win people over with the U.S. Title Open Challenge gimmick. Roman IS the biggest star in WWE because no one else has the crowd as emotionally invested in their matches as Roman does.

[Mad Dog]

I go by the fact that during his run they continue to hit stretches of historically low ratings and the fact that their audience is old as shit. Oh and the fact that if it wasn't for their TV deals they would be losing money. There's a lot of blame to go around for that stuff but you can't argue that Reigns is some kind of success when business has not been doing well for them the last couple of years. And they did end his last title reign because he wasn't doing well.

[goc]

Ratings have been on a downward trend since 2002 and are a dead metric to judge wrestling by in 2017 because THEY'RE NEVER GOING UP AGAIN. The way people view media has changed and nothing is ever going to put that genie back in the bottle.

 

I also have my doubts about the "the audience is old as shit" thing because that is based off cable ratings which obviously is going to skew older now as younger audiences consume media in different ways. You look at the crowds during WWE events and I'm not seeing a super old crowd nor is that who appears to be actually talking about WWE on social media. I'd LOVE to see more old people in the crowds at WWE events because they're generally much better fans than the dorks in Bullet Club shirts but that's not what's actually happening.

 

A better metric would be WWE Network subs which have gone up and not down since Roman's big push started.

[TheDuke]

I really enjoyed the PPV. I liked both main events, but now that I think about it, yeah, they could have done more with Braun. I am assuming Braun and Brock will have a rematch at some point which will have a lot more of the typical Braun Strowman shenanigans, but as this was their first one on one match I think its ok to do what they did. The big question going into No Mercy was who would win in a one on one match, and they have shown that Brock although smaller is a better wrestler than Braun, and is able to actually hurt him. I think that might bring some interest into a rematch as the question could then be, "how can Braun deal with Lesnar?" Of course, at this point Lesnar has no reason to wrestle Strowman again, so a rematch may not be until further down the line once Lesnar no longer has the title.

[Boss Rock]

Apparently the issue is live gates. Both Raw and SDL events have supposedly been having trouble selling out. Only Cena is the real difference maker. And while tv ratings have been declining for years on account of wrestling not being as hot as it was during the AE, Cena was the reason they stayed afloat longer than they did. And TV ratings absolutely plummeted post-Mania 32. They haven't bottomed out yet but they haven't been getting better either. So the main issue is the lack of a top star who can sell tickets and get people to watch the product.

[goc]

TV ratings plummeted post Mania 31 which was when Rollins started his reign of terror and Roman was pointlessly wandering around in midcard feuds with Big Show and Bray Wyatt.

[Boss Rock]

You're right they did, but they took another hit post Mania 32. The biggest issue with WWE is that they lack a top star who can have a meaningful impact on business. Reigns has not at this point and very likely never will. Braun was a guy the audience was legitimately hot for and presented an interesting opportunity to try something new. Instead, they're revisiting the same program from almost three years ago between two guys who don't move the needle.

[Coffey]

Thought it was a pretty good show but the booking decision in the main event sucked a lot of the air out of the room. Here with my friend, it was a "welp, guess that's over" kind of moment. Which is a real shame. Also don't like how Alexa seemingly never loses. It's really unbelievable, even as far as pro-wrestling goes.

 

First WWE show I've watched since SummerSlam.

[Boss Rock]

Heels beating faces clean is indeed a weird trend. Gets the heels over but kills the faces.

[Mad Dog]

It's just weird that they keep doing it with Alexa when it's obvious her booking is killing everyone else.

[Boss Rock]

It's very possible she puts over Asuka, but it's still extremely counter-productive to the rest of the division when she wins clean every single time.

[peachchaos]

Tag match was the highlight of the show. Cesaro and Sheamus should be in the main event scene.

 

I'd say both of the headline matches missed their mark by quite a large margin. Cena looked old and since he was clearly carrying Reigns it was not a flattering look for either guy. Now twice I've been extremely pumped to see someone give Brock a run for his money (a few months ago it was with Joe) and both the match and result both fell way short.

[Kadaveri]

I don't think pushing Alexa like this even helps Asuka, because her winning clean all the time legitimises her reign so people aren't desperate for someone to take it off her. It's not like Honky Tonk Man relentlessly cheating for months to keep hold of the IC Title before finally getting squashed by Ultimate Warrior.

[Boss Rock]

Quoted wrong.

[Boss Rock]

I don't think pushing Alexa like this even helps Asuka, because her winning clean all the time legitimises her reign so people aren't desperate for someone to take it off her. It's not like Honky Tonk Man relentlessly cheating for months to keep hold of the IC Title before finally getting squashed by Ultimate Warrior.

 

Great point.

[iamthedoctor]

Multiple endorsements of Roman by other top guys being met with loud booing just makes WWE look increasingly sad and desperate. Vince vs his own audience is the one feud Im really tired of at this point.

 

Personally Id have had Cena go over Roman.

[sek69]

 

Multiple endorsements of Roman by other top guys being met with loud booing just makes WWE look increasingly sad and desperate. Vince vs his own audience is the one feud Im really tired of at this point.

If you're still watching then he's still winning.

 

 

 

I've been watching long before him, and will be watching long after when he's either off making movies or the subject of a "The Destruction of Roman Reigns" WWE Network special.

 

I mean, I'm not one of those types who's going to say they're going to quit watching WWE over someone's push or lack thereof. I'm just saying it's getting old watching them continuing to slam their dicks in the door trying to make something happen the audience by and large clearly don't want in the position they are placing him at. Yes, girls like him and probably by a lot of his merch, but he's clearly not the numbers mover Cena is even in this stage of his career.

 

Hell, I'm not expecting Vince to listen to me, I'm just some asshole on a message board. I'm just wondering how happy he is with his TV tapings starting to look TNA-ish with everything not facing the hard cam getting tarped off.

[Mad Dog]

I'm probably taking a break from the product after this show. I'm tired of getting into a particular angle and then the payoff sucking because we have to build that F5 back up so Roman can kick out of it at Mania. I mean who is sitting here just eagerly waiting for six more months of Brock as champion so we can get another failed Reigns Wrestlemania moment?

 

We're talking about his 4th straight Wrestlemania main event and it hasn't stuck yet.

[El-P]

Watched a few stuff :

 

Woman's match :

 

Bailey & Sasha need to buy one of these Bruce Prichard T-shirt "I used to be over". They have killed them off so bad.

Emma looks like she's thinking about when she had a cool music and some hype.

 

Comparison game : Amazing Kong walking down the ring in 2007 : "I'm gonna fuck up some skinny ass bitches"

Nia Jaxx walking down the ring in 2017 : Shampoo commercial

 

That Nia comeback was atrocious, she was just gone after a death spot then got back in the ring without selling any damage at all, meanwhile still not looking like a monster.

Emma didn't do the job. Remember when Bailey had potential to be a huge star ? Remember when Charlotte & Sasha had a main-event that was MOTYC material ? Now it's multi-women bullshit no-one really cares about and the softest monster of all time.

 

John Cena vs Roman Reigns

 

Yep. Awful WWE self-conscious epic. Cena craked me up in the beginning though with his antics. He should work like Larry Z. Reigns is more akin to Randy Orton with a godawfully boring heat segment. Then : bomb, kick-out / your turn : bomb, kick-out / rinse / repeat. Just bad, boring typical stuff I don't care one bit about. Reigns is so much the Warrior/Luger to Cena's Hogan.

 

Brock vs Braun

 

So, after the awesome stuff they delivered last time around in the multi-match, they pretty much gave us the best possible Davey Boy Smith vs Warlord match. Hey, it was still better than Cena vs Reigns, in its early 90's solidness.

 

Ah ah. Vince is still a GENIUS with all this great booking.

 

No, seriously, this puts a new meaning to the word UNDERWHELMING, especially when on paper, it could/should have been really fun. But the WWE is not a fun pro-wrestling company, really.

[peachchaos]

Really the best fit for Bailey & Sasha would be a Woman's Tag Division. They could start up the division and hold the titles for a year and then work towards a feud.

[fakeplastictrees]

I thought this was a good to great show. Until Reigns vs. Cena, which was just meh. And that sendoff moment after such a mediocre match on a B show just made me wonder what the hell's going on, norhing more.

 

This kinda (but not really) reminded me of Shane Douglas and Al Snow having this TERRIBLE main event match on an ECW PPV back in the 90's and after the match the locker room comes out and hoists Snow (?) on their shoulders as if there was some big triumph. Even in context, the WM10 celebration was completely out-of-place based on the match that just went down. Cena doing the corny look behind the shoulder routine was swiss cheese on top of a double grilled cheese sandwich. Actually, that sounds pretty good--so I will just say the Cena routine sucked.

[DMJ]

Full write-up on my blog sometime tomorrow, but a few quick thoughts -

 

- Based on the some of the comments here, people don't think Jason Jordan is getting the "Rocky Miavia-on-purpose" treatment? Seemed obvious to me. Its actually kinda meta-funny in the sense that they did the same with his "dad" Kurt Angle when he debuted. Happy go-lucky blue chipper who audience despises because he's so vanilla. I don't know if he'll have a third of the career that Angle or The Rock did, but i will say this, in terms of wrestling ability, he throws a mean suplex. Facial expressions and crossface could use work, but Rome wasn't built in a day.

 

- More than the finisher-bombing, WWE has a bad habit of having matches feature crazy, non-finishers that should end a match/knock someone out entirely and then not going all the way with them. I counted two big ones that hurt their respective matches for me. First, Cesaro powerbombing Rollins onto Ambrose (who'd just taken a White Noise). Second, Nia Jax taking an absolutely nasty powerbomb, but coming back...just to be taken out again and not involved in the pin. That powerbomb looked like it might have legit broken her neck, so, there's no shame in being taken out of a match by it. It counterintuitively makes her look less tough to come back and not win.

 

- Cena will be at Mania, but the question will be in what capacity. I don't see a natural opponent for him, but the show is a long way away.

 

- Main event was a disappointment. I'm curious what agent worked on it; part of me wonders if they were deliberately told to keep it in the ring (and not have any of the thrills that made the SummerSlam match and the Strowman/Reigns matches fun), make sure Brock came out strong, and let the chips fall where they may with Braun. As someone else mentioned, Lesnar did not look great, just seems like he's old and doesn't give a shit now that its 2017 and not 2012 and everyone can see the writing's on the wall for him as a featured WWE performer.

 

Too early to tell how damaging the loss was for Braun. Personally, I thought Nia Jax losing so much early in her career would prevent the WWE from getting her over as a monster, but I think they've rebuilt much of her cred. Ditto for Strowman himself when you look at his Wyatt Family days and his losses to Reigns. Even Austin lost his first major WWE Championship match in 97' when he was certainly hot enough to beat Taker at a B-show In Your House. But, even if saying Strowman was "killed off" last night is too far, that match certainly didn't help his career in any way and didn't, in my opinion, effectively tell the story of the young monster getting ahead of himself and losing due to inexperience or a veteran advantage.

 

Just seems oddly like a decision was made to purposefully under-deliver and underwhelm and Strowman, as fun as he can be, is probably still not at the point in his career when he's going to step up and, through sheer will, deliver something better than what the writers/bookers/agents lay out for him. We already know Lesnar's motivations are suspect based on pretty much everything he's done for the past 24 months or so?

[Johnny Sorrow]

Oh, Jordan is totally getting the Rocky Maivia on purpose treatment. It's even more obvious after last night.