cactus Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 Okay, where to start on this? No where near the heights of their 31 classic. The excessive F5s didn't make Roman look like a star and made everyone who lost to single one the past 12 months look weak as James Ellsworth. They could achieved what they wanted to do with 3 and not burn out the crowd either. Brock's elbow barrage gave Reigns one of the nastiest gashes I've seen in a long time. It was so brutal that I questioned where it was legit blood as their was no way WWE would allow their ace to piss out blood like that. This match was a total spectacle and it gave me a reason to tune into Raw tonight. ★★★¼ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShittyLittleBoots Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 Some of the booking in this match was absolutely cringeworthy & Reigns looked very comedic w/ that color on, but yeah, I still enjoyed this a lot. Very violent w/ Brock absolutely destroying Reigns for the most of it & I ALWAYS enjoy watching Brock beat people up. ***1/2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richeyedwards Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 The last time these two wrestled they had what I thought was a ***** match which was the last match I gave *****. This was not that match to say the least.It started well with a couple of minutes of violence with some real urgency but then Brock took over and it died some of Brock's suplexes looked extremely sloppy. Brock hit three straight f5s all of which were kicked out of and the match ground to a halt.It came back at the very end where Roman was a bloody mess and his blood-soaked comeback was great but then he just lost to what was the 6th or 7th f5.Has a rematch ever been this bad compared to the original? Hogan Vs warrior maybe but it was pretty certain that the 98 match was gonna suck.** At most this was a gigantic disappointment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShittyLittleBoots Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 Has a rematch ever been this bad compared to the original? AJ/Nakamura II from this same card. I got their first match at 4.5 and I gave last night's one 2 stars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 This match just made me angry at WWE. Their 2015 match is one of my all time favorites and I've been really looking forward to the rematch, and then they just totally ruin it by the stupidest booking and layout imaginable. They tried to get Brock over as a heel, so now the crowd didn't like ANYONE in this match and had no investment other than to express their disinterest in another Roman coronation. Brock's schtick wasn't even over because they'd succeeded in making him unlikeable. No one cared about the F5 kickouts because no one cared about Roman and no one thought he was going to lose. Roman kicking out of the F5 over and over again was just boring and essentially down-time in the match. The whole thing was awkward because the crowd never reacted to any spot in the match. Now, there was a lot in the match that was awesome. The beginning exchange between the two, Brock almost killing Roman by dropping him on his head on the outside, Roman's weird and violent looking bump across the announce table, Roman's freaking AWESOME spear to Brock across the announce table, Brock's knee strike counter, and the BLOOD! But, none of it really mattered, because it was all in the context of a totally tonedef and utterly failed match layout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahoos Leg Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 I'm over watching Lesnar wrestle. For the past 2ish years, most Lesnar matches are like when you invite a friend over to play action figures and they make all their guys invulnerable and unbeatable. He gets gassed so quickly, threw some super unsafe suplexes and basically chewed up Reigns in a 90/10 extended squash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmmnx Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 Terrible match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 This was BALLS. Fuck, it pains me to say that shit, but this was not good. It HAD good moments, like Roman going berserk, and horrific table bumps. But my God, this failed on every other level. Brock flat out tanked this shit, and him only doing F5 after F5 did the match zero favors. But even worse in a vacuum, this was dreaful on a booking standpoint. If that Triple H/Booker feud wasn't about racism winning, this would've been the worst booked Wrestlemania match ever. You spend the last seven or so weeks saying that Brock is a part time fucker, had no respect for the business, and that Roman is there every single time. He is clearly in the right, liking him or not. Brock appears. Lays out Roman three weeks in a row. The go home show ends with Brock triumphant and Reigns down on the mat. Clearly this indicates he is finally getting his win over the monster, right? WRONG. Fuck this. They killed off one of their biggest names for fuck all reason. I have no idea what you do with Roman at this point, but he seems ruined. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 I don't know how you can give ***1/2 to such an obviously ineffective match. Was there good stuff in it? Sure. But it was a structural mess that diminished both guys involved and ended the biggest show of the year on a sour note. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 Yeah, it was a complete mess. I'll say this though, there's something somewhat compelling about blown-up Lesnar sweating like a pig throwing people around and elbowing them in the head to make them bleed. I mean, Lesnar has a presence still that no one really has. Sure, the match was garbage, Roman throwing a hundred superman punches was a compelling as it sounds, as where the dozen finisher kick-outs, but I dunno, I'd rather watch a Lesnar complete car-crash than your run-of-the-mill decent Roman match. Of course I'd rather have anything other than these two propositions, really. But yeah, that match was pretty damn awful and a complete failure in the end, like most Lesnar have ended up being since he got into Suplex City mode as opposed to kick-ass MMA beast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 15-minute match made up of F5's, suplexes, spears, and Superman punches. If they don't put a wrestler out after 1, let alone 2 attempts, maybe it's time to come up with a better finisher. Same deal with Owens & Zayn hitting everything on Shane in a handicap situation and unable to put him away. Are they terrible? Or is Shane superhuman because of his dad's incredible genes? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted April 9, 2018 Report Share Posted April 9, 2018 The match was ridiculous in a bad way. Total letdown to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eas Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 People have typically given late 90s AJPW shit for all the head drops and excessiveness but to me, the current WWE style is way worse when it comes to people kicking out of big moves and finishers multiple times over. Misawa never had to give someone 5 Tiger Driver 91s to keep them down or Kobashi doling out 5 Burning Hammers,etc. Then again, that's pretty much all modern wrestling as a whole. Oh, and this match sucked monkey balls. Even though I hate smarky crowds and their stupid chants and such the "This is Awful" chant made me laugh. Agree with the others on Brock - what was once a fun wrestler to watch, he just needs to go away to UFC for a long while now. Until he inevitably gets suspended again and comes back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxnj Posted April 10, 2018 Report Share Posted April 10, 2018 I have no idea what you guys are on about. This was good. As a quasi-squash it was a fine piece of violence with no downtime and loads of brutal looking spots. Brock was every bit as cocky, stiff, and sloppy as I'd like him to be. The outside stuff was was especially nuts, particularly the announce table work and one suplex where it looked like Roman nearly landed square on his neck. Roman ate the beating like a champ and it was a nice touch for him to get busted open just in time for his final comeback. 6 F5s being too much is a valid criticism, but it's a Wrestlemania main event between the only two guys who beat the Undertaker, so I'm more forgiving of that than I would be any other time. I also watched this out of context with no real investment in either guy's booking, but I think the effectiveness of the booking is a separate matter from the match's aesthetic merits and also something I think is too early to discuss without at least a few months to see how things pan out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 I actually quite enjoyed it live. It didn't live up to WM31 really, but I find the notion that it was actively bad peculiar. I am withholding judgement until I watch it again, but I just wanted to say I hated that crowd so much for the entirety of this match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 I actually quite enjoyed it live. It didn't live up to WM31 really, but I find the notion that it was actively bad peculiar. I am withholding judgement until I watch it again, but I just wanted to say I hated that crowd so much for the entirety of this match.The live crowd situation made it virtually impossible for me to really get into the match at any level. I was too annoyed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 I finally finished rewatching mania and I just don't get the hate for this. Is it just because Brock won? Was it because the crowd hated it? Sure, they shifted gears a few times to try to do anything to get the crowd behind it, and that did suck the urgency out of a few moments. but I just don't see a disjointed mess that most people seem to see. I thought it was brutal, full of big moves and heat between the two. I thought Brock's move to hard way Roman gave the end some teeth (which it desperately needed after they went about destroying the F5). This crowd just wasn't going to like this match. They just weren't. I know they won the crowd over at 31, but that just wasn't going to be the case here. The crowd was chanting "same old shit" before the bell rang. They wanted to shit on this. Brock and Reigns could have gone out and had a 7 star classic and it wouldn't have mattered, so I just don't even are about the argument that this was ineffective (at least in that respect). In fact, if they wanted to set up a high stakes rematch that really frames Reigns as a massive underdog I think it was actually fairly effective. I for one actively enjoyed most of the match. I feel like if the crowd were into it and it ended the way it probably should have the whole ethos of this would be different. I also think with distance the discourse about this will probably change as they work to integrate it into the slightly longer arch they decided to go with. I just don't see the all time snoozer that some people do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 I finally finished rewatching mania and I just don't get the hate for this. Is it just because Brock won? Was it because the crowd hated it? Sure, they shifted gears a few times to try to do anything to get the crowd behind it, and that did suck the urgency out of a few moments. but I just don't see a disjointed mess that most people seem to see. I thought it was brutal, full of big moves and heat between the two. I thought Brock's move to hard way Roman gave the end some teeth (which it desperately needed after they went about destroying the F5). This crowd just wasn't going to like this match. They just weren't. I know they won the crowd over at 31, but that just wasn't going to be the case here. The crowd was chanting "same old shit" before the bell rang. They wanted to shit on this. Brock and Reigns could have gone out and had a 7 star classic and it wouldn't have mattered, so I just don't even are about the argument that this was ineffective (at least in that respect). In fact, if they wanted to set up a high stakes rematch that really frames Reigns as a massive underdog I think it was actually fairly effective. I for one actively enjoyed most of the match. I feel like if the crowd were into it and it ended the way it probably should have the whole ethos of this would be different. I also think with distance the discourse about this will probably change as they work to integrate it into the slightly longer arch they decided to go with. I just don't see the all time snoozer that some people do. I like watching Reigns getting destroyed because his comebacks are great and he does a very good job at selling getting beat up. Mania 31 was almost perfect in that regard, with him looking for Brock to deliver more pain as he just wouldn't stand down. This time it was just a bunch of shit thrown together so Roman could kick out and "look strong in defeat". Six F-5 was just funny in a ridiculous "what the fuck is this" kind of way, by the time Brock elbowed him to get color I was already out of the match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted April 13, 2018 Report Share Posted April 13, 2018 I watched it again. Brock gassed out in less than five minutes, to a degree where he couldn't execute his basic offense. On top of that, we got almost none of the intense, violent exchanges that distinguished the first match. Still, I thought they were having a pretty good match for about eight minutes, right up to the point where Brock countered Roman's third spear attempt with that boss-looking knee. But then Brock went to the F-5, which Roman kicked out of to no reaction, despite the fact WWE protected the move for a year. Instead of adjusting, Brock went back to the F-5 four more times as the crowd shat on it more and more vociferously. His choices were both monotonous and horribly misguided given the reaction. The blood was cool but came way too late to fuel any kind of drama, especially when they were going to beat the poor bastard anyway. Basically, I thought the match was worse, not better, on rewatch. The design actively killed any potential drama. Roman came off as a resilient weakling. Brock came off as a guy without the fitness or range of skills to handle a big match. It was a failure, plain and simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoo Enthusiast Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 I finally finished rewatching mania and I just don't get the hate for this. Is it just because Brock won? Was it because the crowd hated it? Sure, they shifted gears a few times to try to do anything to get the crowd behind it, and that did suck the urgency out of a few moments. but I just don't see a disjointed mess that most people seem to see. I thought it was brutal, full of big moves and heat between the two. I thought Brock's move to hard way Roman gave the end some teeth (which it desperately needed after they went about destroying the F5). This crowd just wasn't going to like this match. They just weren't. I know they won the crowd over at 31, but that just wasn't going to be the case here. The crowd was chanting "same old shit" before the bell rang. They wanted to shit on this. Brock and Reigns could have gone out and had a 7 star classic and it wouldn't have mattered, so I just don't even are about the argument that this was ineffective (at least in that respect). In fact, if they wanted to set up a high stakes rematch that really frames Reigns as a massive underdog I think it was actually fairly effective. I for one actively enjoyed most of the match. I feel like if the crowd were into it and it ended the way it probably should have the whole ethos of this would be different. I also think with distance the discourse about this will probably change as they work to integrate it into the slightly longer arch they decided to go with. I just don't see the all time snoozer that some people do. As a big Roman fan, I wish I shared your optimism on this one, man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boss Rock Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 The first few minutes of this seemed really promising, almost like their Mania 31 match. There was some chaotic stuff like Roman getting launched over the announce table, but then it completely fell apart. Brock gasses himself with some of the worst German suplexes I've ever seen and it basically becomes a showcase of "Look how many F-5's Roman can kick out of!" And who looked at Brock hard way opening Orton at Summerlam and said "Yeah! Let's totally do that again!"? Granted, the image of a blood-soaked Reigns screaming in defiance WAS pretty cool, but it was still a dangerous and stupid spot. And to put the cherry on top, the comeback I was hoping would put an end to this cluster was snuffed out in unbelievably anti-climactic fashion. Mania has had some stinker main events and while I wouldn't say this was the worst, it ranks up there (or down there). ** at best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cap Posted April 14, 2018 Report Share Posted April 14, 2018 I won't disagree with anyone about the F5 mess. That pulled the match down a good bit. It was inexcusable nonsense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IpponDropkick Posted April 23, 2018 Report Share Posted April 23, 2018 I know I'm a bit late on this. The biggest, damning thing about the match is over the past year they had two central pillars the match easily should have been built on: The vicious elbows to Orton and the F5 kickout. The F5 has been built fantastically all year, putting absolutely everyone down - Including Reigns in the buildup! - with one shot. The Orton elbows were a big, talked about moment that could have served as a fantastic story beat in this match. They killed themselves by going to the F5 too early. A half dead, bloody Roman eating that move and then kicking out of one F5 only to spend the rest of the match desperately avoiding getting hit with another could have been a lot of fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microstatistics Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 My initial review: Brock would probably make my Top 50 if we did GWE again. Roman is really good. Their WM31 match is an all time classic. Yet, I was skeptical. And for good reason. This was bad. To be fair, there were some neat moments that saved it from being complete trash. Brock tossing pieces of the table at the German announce team, Roman getting suplexed face first into the table, Brock hooking both legs on the finish, Lesnar's high knee, the awkward violent spear into the table. Other than that, this was borderline awful. It was obviously Roman was going to kick out of an F-5 (maybe two) since they had protected it for a year. But the 3 F-5 kickouts in a row was ridiculous and the match essentially ventured into parody territory. The hardway spot was completely wasted too and meant nothing at the end of the day. Roman kicking out of 2 more F-5s (5 total) only to be pinned by a 6th was mindnumbingly stupid. Both guys were boring and brought nothing when it came to selling or character work (a complete 180 from their match 3 years ago). Bad performance by both. Plus the fact Roman is likely going to win the title at the end of the month makes all of this even more pointless. Rewatched this and I stand by almost all of what I had said. Having said that, I enjoyed it slightly more than I did initially. Watching it in a vacuum helped. It's still reasonably hard hitting and there are cool individuals spots. But ultimately, it's a bit of a mess and all the F5 kickouts killed any chance of it being decent. The apathetic crowd didn't help either. **1/4 Speaking of, were the repeated F5s Brock's creative choice or were they incorporated by someone backstage using the "Roman's loses but gets to kick out of a bazillion finishers in row to look resilient" logic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted April 24, 2018 Report Share Posted April 24, 2018 I don't know for sure, but you would have to think they mapped out the match pretty carefully with Vince and an agent, right? Meltzer always says Heyman has a major hand in laying out Brock's matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.