WWE Crown Jewel: No Girlz ALLOWED~!

[DMJ]

20 minutes ago, SomethingSavage said:

What are the chances approximately 99% of the people acting all outraged about WWE running Saudi Araba are also going to watch the show anyway?

I think your point is really valid, though I also think that many fans complaining about this show won't be watching. I'd love to see the numbers, but my thought is that the GRR show, the Australian show, and this show do worse than the typical PPV. 

These shows have been endless slogs featuring mostly recycled matches and while live crowds love seeing guys like HHH, Shawn Michaels, and Taker, I'm not convinced that they "move the needle" on The Network in 2018. I mean, when all was said and done, wasn't it somewhat confirmed that Brock Lesnar wasn't the long-term game-changer they thought he'd be? And Triple H is? I don't buy it. 

The sad part is that it doesn't matter if 0 Network subscribers watch this show. This show has already netted the WWE enough money that even if only 10% of subscribers view it in whole or even in part, its irrelevant.

[SomethingSavage]

I'm not even talking from a financial standpoint. Of course it's a net profit for them right out of the gate. But defending the idea of watching it by throwing your hands up and saying, "Well it won't make a difference anyway" is the very definition of the issue I'm addressing here.

I don't care. It's not like I have stock in either side of this thing. I don't watch, because I can't imagine trying to justify spending five or six hours of my valuable free time watching this stuff.

But if you're going to watch it anyway, then you've really got no reason to criticize whether they run the show or not. This whole "pretending to be outraged" trend is tired and hypocritical. And it's absolutely one of the worst traits in modern society. Either you're greatly offended enough to actually do something, or you're not. If you're not bothered enough by it to even change your precious habits or your routine, then you're basically just white noise & you desperately want to be included in the conversation.

Just my two cents though. I'm likely the outlier on this issue anyhow. But you should probably realize you can't be taken seriously if you show up in the live show thread and criticize them for running the show - AS you literally watch along and consume their content.

[Jimmy Redman]

I have no interest in watching the show.

[Mattsdmf]

I haven’t had any interest in the WWE in several years.  The last show I watched was WrestleMania and that was out of curiosity and talk about a drag of a show.  I have little to no interest in any current wrestling besides Lucha Underground so the only reason I kept the Network for was for the classic content.  Recently, my interest in wrestling has been waning and I don’t even see a point in keeping the Network as I have many DVDs and YouTube to suffice if I want to watch wrestling.  This issue was pretty much the cherry on top for me to cancel my subscription, knowing that it would have less then a drop in the bucket for the WWE.  So no, I won’t be watching.

[aaeo_]

Wouldn't the people who actually watch their shows have more reason to be critical? I understand they ran pro-saudi propangada video packages but i don't know how often. Either way, to me if you sat through those just because you actually like their programming (for whatever misguided reason), I feel like you definitely have the right to criticize them even if you plan on continuing watching.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I like their programming more than most around here, and I'm at the first point where I'm actually upset about something wrestling related. And by related, I mean it's a side effect of what Im really angry about. My country and the Saudis have always had a fucked relationship that makes me furious. But with the Mango Mussolini in charge, it's way, way worse. 

Im not cancelling the network, most of the PPVs are gatherings of friends  that I'm not going to give up, although there's going to be more yelling at the tv than ever before. And I'm not going to give up the podcasts I do with my friends based on the classic content. And I know I'm being hypocritical, and it's fucking eating at me worse than any other crazy, weird, criminal, bullshit that's gone on in this business, and not just Vince shit. That podcast is about World Class. I'll never be clean.

 

 

[C.S.]

The mainstream coverage is beginning to trickle in...

Deadline Hollywood: WWE’s Saudi Arabia “Conundrum” May Cause Up To $16M Hit To The Solar Plexus – Analyst

[...TG]

8 hours ago, C.S. said:

The mainstream coverage is beginning to trickle in...

Deadline Hollywood: WWE’s Saudi Arabia “Conundrum” May Cause Up To $16M Hit To The Solar Plexus – Analyst

Slightly off-topic: man, mainstream publications cannot resist throwing a wrestling pun in wrestling headline.

[SomethingSavage]

18 hours ago, aaeo_ said:

Wouldn't the people who actually watch their shows have more reason to be critical? I understand they ran pro-saudi propangada video packages but i don't know how often. Either way, to me if you sat through those just because you actually like their programming (for whatever misguided reason), I feel like you definitely have the right to criticize them even if you plan on continuing watching.

If we were talking about artistic or aesthetic criticisms, then OF COURSE you'd be right. But in this case? Nah. Dead wrong.

These aren't superficial criticisms. These are moral criticisms. Big difference. If they matter to folks as much as these people are ACTING like they do, then stepping away from something as silly and insignificant as one pro wrestling company shouldn't be too tall a request. Of course, the alternative is that people really just like to PRETEND to be upset a lot of times about a lot of things. And they want to feel included in the hot conversation in the moment, which is closer to what this actually sounds like.

You can't pretend to throw these moral criticisms at them about such an issue and then go along with them AS THEY DO the exact thing you're supposedly so morally outraged about.

If you're someone who pretends to be upset and utterly outraged, then you shouldn't be contributing to their cause. And if you're viewing & consuming their content, then that's what you're doing. You're feeding the beast. That's hypocritical at best.

[Loss]

Followed to its logical conclusion, how would that not make all WWE talk the words of people who will only say nice things? When I hear that line of reasoning, whether it's the intent or not (and I don't think it is in this case, to be clear), it's what comes to mind.

If you don't like it, don't watch.

If you don't watch, you can't criticize.

Therefore, no one has any standing to criticize WWE, whether they watch or not.

[SomethingSavage]

Again, just to reiterate - if we're talking criticisms of the presentation, then yeah. By all means, watch and criticize it. In that case, watching and following the product DIRECTLY qualifies you to be more informed and knowledgeable about what they're doing wrong, because you're seeing it as it happens. I'm not disputing that.

But this is supposedly a moral issue, and it's a very specific circumstance. I know you can comprehend what I'm saying here. In THIS case, watching and supporting their product makes you a part of the problem. It's hypocritical to say they shouldn't run a show in Saudi Arabia but then turn up & tune in to watch every minute of it for 5 straight hours. I can't be alone in realizing there's a disconnect there.

All criticisms are not created equal. Suggesting their match layouts suck or their storylines are boring as fuck is NOT the same as suggesting they deserve to lose a fortune for entertaining this cutthroat, genocidal royal family.

If WWE is such a horrible company, and all these people are truthfully SO outraged about it, then why would they turn around and contribute to the cause? Missing a fucking wrestling show is not that serious. And if it is, then perhaps priorities for these people could use some real world readjusting.

Again, I don't care either way. I somehow keep finding myself back here elaborating what I only came here to say in the first place, and that's - Either be outraged enough to stop feeding them, or shut up already and enjoy your Crown Jewel.

Nobody needs to see folks put on a big show and pretend to be upset if they're just going to sit down and watch the damn thing anyway. Can't have your cake & eat it, too.

[Loss]

I am so sorry about the confusion from that post. I should have used the quote function, because it wasn't even meant as a response to you, but rather the previous post from aaeo_. I generally agree with what you're saying.

[SomethingSavage]

5 minutes ago, Charles (Loss) said:

I am so sorry about the confusion from that post. I should have used the quote function, because it wasn't even meant as a response to you, but rather the previous post from aaeo_. I generally agree with what you're saying.

All's good.

I probably could have figured that out if I would've slowed down and read the post more carefully.

[aaeo_]

I'd definitely say people who don't watch their shit can be critical of these Saudi shows because I've done that in this very thread. But I may be missing the point here. I've never followed WWE and they do seem morally like a horrible company to me, but I think it's understandable that a lot of people would have an emotional attachment to them even with the cognitive dissonance that it seems like it engenders.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/19/saudi-arabia-admits-journalist-jamal-khashoggi-was-killed-after-a-fight-broke-out-in-consulate.html

Beautiful.

[Herodes]

I’m still predicting that Prince MBS will be getting the ultimate warrior award at next years HOF

i am ALL IN on crown jewel, this kind of nonsense and outrage reminds me of how fun wrestling can be when it’s not sterile star ratings boredom.

[Coffey]

On 10/17/2018 at 7:24 PM, Jimmy Redman said:

I have no interest in watching the show.

I don't either but if I'm being honest, it's more so because of how bad the Greatest Royal Rumble was than it is anything to do with politics. Like, the stuff going on in Saudi Arabia is terrible, no doubt, but if that news didn't come out, I still wouldn't be watching this show because how distracting it is having all of those jobbers in the front row that don't give a fuck.

[TheDuke]

I wonder what would happen if one of the wrestlers there got on the mic to do a promo, and instead started criticizing the Saudi Arabia regime? Like not as a wrestling promo, but as a serious critical speech? Obviously they would cut his mic off and take the camera off him, but I wonder what would happen after that point? A firing? Suspension? Would the crowd boo the wrestler? Could you imagine if the crowd cheered for the wrestler, or booed the Saudi government instead? Would the whole multi year deal be cancelled? Would the Saudi authorities get involved with the wrestler directly and arrest him? I know it is not likely one of their wrestlers would decide to go off script like that, but I am just trying to imagine how everyone else would react in a what if scenario.

[El-P]

7 minutes ago, TheDuke said:

I wonder what would happen if one of the wrestlers there got on the mic to do a promo, and instead started criticizing the Saudi Arabia regime?

Yeah, that could totally happen considering the regime just dismembered and decapitated a journalist who was doing just that. 

In all seriousness, it's amazing no one employed by the company is saying anything. What is it ? The fucking mafia ? In any other entertainment company in the world, you'd have people coming up and opening their mouth, expressing *at the very least* their discomfort going there and working in front of these criminals. It really doesn't shed a positive light on any of them. It's like there's no possible life outside of WWE in their mind. Kinda pathetic, really.

[C.S.]

I wonder how CM Punk would react to all of this if he was still in the company. Ditto for RVD.

Say what you want about their personality (Punk) or ring psychology (RVD), but they seemed to have a pair of balls. Can't say the same for anyone currently there.

[Herodes]

They would shut up and take the sweet petrodollars like the rest of them.

As for what would happen if anyone went of script they would probably end up like Nancy Argentino but no one boycotted over that. Nor alleged rape of Rita Marie. Not PS Hayes and Dusty Rhodes using the n word.

etc etc

[sek69]

Well RVD did refuse to go to the Tribute to the Troops shows that were in Afganistan (IIRC), so I could see him both refusing to do this show and not giving a shit if he got fired over it. 

[Herodes]

Saudi propaganda pays much better than equally offensive US propoganda

[flyonthewall2983]

20 hours ago, sek69 said:

Well RVD did refuse to go to the Tribute to the Troops shows that were in Afganistan (IIRC), so I could see him both refusing to do this show and not giving a shit if he got fired over it. 

Did he do it out of opposition to the war? I've seen him speak about it, but just got the feeling he didn't want to travel overseas during the holidays.

[Loss]

They are wrestlers and it's a dark history. I don't expect better from most of them. There are a few like Titus O'Neil, who has a reputation that means something outside of WWE, and Sami Zayn, who has been lucky twice in a row by not having to work the shows, from whom I'd expect a little more. Of those two, I'd expect Sami Zayn to take a stand most of all, especially because he could probably make close to what he's making now in WWE with an El Generico revival.