WWE Crown Jewel: No Girlz ALLOWED~!

[El-P]

15 hours ago, Jmare007 said:

Hogan doing one of the most Hulk Hogan thing possible

http://www.prowrestlingsheet.com/hulk-hogan-saudi-arabia-wwe/#.W9DREeJRfIV

From embarrassing to more embarrassing to even more embarrassing. Hogan is the gift that keeps on giving stupid shit.

[sek69]

It was mentioned in the Q3 investors conference that the show is indeed still going on as planned.

[Downend2005]

WWE’s statement on the matter...

“WWE has operated in the Middle East for nearly 20 years and has developed a sizable and dedicated fan base. Considering the heinous crime committed at the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, the Company faced a very difficult decision as it relates to its event scheduled for November 2 in Riyadh. Similar to other U.S.-based companies who plan to continue operations in Saudi Arabia, the Company has decided to uphold its contractual obligations to the General Sports Authority and stage the event. Full year 2018 guidance is predicated on the staging of the Riyadh event as scheduled.”

[El-P]

aka "We don't give a fuck about the real world. Here comes the money."

Hopefully this is gonna bite them in the ass hard eventually. Karma is a bitch.

[Downend2005]

Just now, El-P said:

aka "We don't give a fuck about the real world. Here comes the money."

Hopefully this is gonna bite them in the ass hard eventually. Karma is a bitch.

But but but, this isn’t about money, I thought this was an opportunity that could ‘lead to change’

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Look, they have to keep their promise to the Universe members in Saudi Arabia.

[Jmare007]

If they keep doing shows next year I fully expect Vince to make someone on the roster dress like Yokozuna to appease MBS.

[Coffey]

39 minutes ago, Jmare007 said:

If they keep doing shows next year I fully expect Vince to make someone on the roster dress like Yokozuna to appease MBS.

Maybe they'll hire Fallah Bahh. 

[Beast]

I don't want to start a big argument, but I hope everyone who finds WWE's relationship with Saudi Arabia to be terrible has cancelled the Network.

Don't support them. Don't watch the shows. "But I love 205 Live" or "I really want to see Evolution" shouldn't counterbalance this whole deal. 

There's enough footage on YouTube, DailyMotion, torrents, etc... that if you want to watch 1984 WCCW, you don't have to give Vince another cent.

[Al]

1 hour ago, Beast said:

I don't want to start a big argument, but I hope everyone who finds WWE's relationship with Saudi Arabia to be terrible has cancelled the Network.

Don't support them. Don't watch the shows. "But I love 205 Live" or "I really want to see Evolution" shouldn't counterbalance this whole deal. 

There's enough footage on YouTube, DailyMotion, torrents, etc... that if you want to watch 1984 WCCW, you don't have to give Vince another cent.

I canceled. I’m not going to say it’s a boycott. I’ll probably go back at some point. But given the sheer amount of content available via television and other streaming services, I have more options than time in the day. So given an opportunity to cut something and save a little money, I feel comfortable doing that right now.

[sek69]

WWE really didn't have a choice here (I mean, other than not signing a ten year deal with a problematic government in the first place), once the deal was made they painted themselves in this corner. If they don't go they take a financial hit bigger than this show as the investors would freak out and the stock would plunge. 

Between the upcoming midterm elections, bombs being sent to various opponents of the GOP, and them being that rasslin' company, WWE is just banking on people no longer paying attention to their show after a week or so. 

Really, they have no reason not to. What's the worst that can happen? Bix writes another piece calling them out, people wag their fingers at them on social media, and then they collect those fat TV checks next year.

[C.S.]

And when you do cancel, I hope you list the reason.

1 hour ago, Al said:

I canceled. I’m not going to say it’s a boycott. I’ll probably go back at some point. But given the sheer amount of content available via television and other streaming services, I have more options than time in the day. So given an opportunity to cut something and save a little money, I feel comfortable doing that right now.

My feelings exactly.

My membership runs through the rest of the month.

I'm undecided if I'll bother with Evolution. The card doesn't look remotely good, but it might be fun background noise.

[Tim Evans]

2 hours ago, Beast said:

I don't want to start a big argument, but I hope everyone who finds WWE's relationship with Saudi Arabia to be terrible has cancelled the Network.

Don't support them. Don't watch the shows. "But I love 205 Live" or "I really want to see Evolution" shouldn't counterbalance this whole deal. 

There's enough footage on YouTube, DailyMotion, torrents, etc... that if you want to watch 1984 WCCW, you don't have to give Vince another cent.

But if you watch WCCW on youtube, there are probably ads before the video and that ad money goes to WWE.  Same with any other territory they own.

I'm not going to watch Crown Jewel. Not out of protest or anything but just there is too much WWE product out these days and I don't have time to watch everything. Plus the matches will probably be rematched to death on tv.

[Loss]

4 hours ago, Beast said:

I don't want to start a big argument, but I hope everyone who finds WWE's relationship with Saudi Arabia to be terrible has cancelled the Network.

Don't support them. Don't watch the shows. "But I love 205 Live" or "I really want to see Evolution" shouldn't counterbalance this whole deal. 

There's enough footage on YouTube, DailyMotion, torrents, etc... that if you want to watch 1984 WCCW, you don't have to give Vince another cent.

While I don't want to dismiss this point entirely, I will also say that I don't think this is a reasonable expectation. We all use Google and Facebook and they do horrible things. There's a good chance that your bank and my bank have directly or indirectly funded terrorism and human trafficking. We work for companies and shop at stores that probably donate to and empower terrible politicians. We buy food and cars and gasoline and healthcare and electricity in a way that empowers evil people. We likely listen to music or watch movies or appreciate art from people who have abused family members or worse. Hell, I claim to care about climate change, but I also eat beef and had two children. The point is not that to cancel WWE Network is foolish. I think it's pretty admirable and respect anyone who has the courage in their convictions to do so. However, I think to expect such action from everyone is asking too much. If we extended this logic to everything, we'd all completely disengage from each other and the world. This sounds like I'm saying we should just throw our hands up in the air, which I'm not saying at all. It's just that I think this point of view has limitations. I wish it didn't.

[sek69]

I won't watch the show, largely because it's going to be a bloated 4+hour show that probably won't have any long term implications over filling a vacant title. The geopolitics suck, but it's hard to take a moral stand when I've watched for decades despite all the murders/racism/misogyny/general shithead behavior that has pretty much defined the business since day one. 

Perhaps it's a nilhlist point of view, but it's pretty much where I'm at right now. Plus like Charles said, once you start down that path it's impossible to have a totally clean moral slate.

[Beast]

15 minutes ago, Charles (Loss) said:

While I don't want to dismiss this point entirely, I will also say that I don't think this is a reasonable expectation. We all use Google and Facebook and they do horrible things. There's a good chance that your bank and my bank have directly or indirectly funded terrorism and human trafficking. We work for companies and shop at stores that probably donate to and empower terrible politicians. We buy food and cars and gasoline and healthcare and electricity in a way that empowers evil people. We likely listen to music or watch movies or appreciate art from people who have abused family members or worse. Hell, I claim to care about climate change, but I also eat beef and had two children. The point is not that to cancel WWE Network is foolish. I think it's pretty admirable and respect anyone who has the courage in their convictions to do so. However, I think to expect such action from everyone is asking too much. If we extended this logic to everything, we'd all completely disengage from each other and the world. This sounds like I'm saying we should just throw our hands up in the air, which I'm not saying at all. It's just that I think this point of view has limitations. I wish it didn't.

For sure, it's a slippery slope. But we know enough about Vince and his thought process and Stephanie saying "Charity is the PR of the 21st century" and the hypocrisy of the Saudi/Evolution PPV "woman's revolution" deal that I think this is different. We make choices in the modern world to ignore or excuse huge transgressions because of ease, re:Google/Facebook/Apple etc... WWE is such a specific entertainment that I don't think ending any financial transactions with them is a life changer for anyone.

Full disclosure, I got rid of the Network many months (maybe even years) ago because I'd had enough. I still watch a TON of wrestling and am happy. I never thought there'd be a point in my life that I didn't at least follow WWE by reading recaps of Raw (or listening to Meltzer discuss it on F4W/WON) but that ended for good around WrestleMania for me and I even ended up cancelling my Observer subscription. That's why this site is so important to my watching habits. 

I just don't see WWE as 1) Being anything close to the wrestling that got me hooked on wrestling and 2) Worth excusing bad corporate behavior. Don't even get me started on unions...

But that's my own personal deal and I understand for most it's probably something you compartmentalize while enjoying the latest Buddy Murphy match.

[SirEdger]

I pretty much echo the same sentiment. Personally, it would be pointless because I don't even have the Network right now. But I agree with Charles that without saying it's a treacherous path to take or an hypocritical choice, it would be impossible to really have everyone commit into a massive boycott. It just won't happen. The biggest repercussions WWE might suffer will probably come from sponsors who won't agree with WWE going to Saudi Arabia.

[Loss]

It's an admirable stand. I admire those who do it for sure. I just don't hold it against anyone who doesn't.

[SomethingSavage]

14 minutes ago, sek69 said:

I won't watch the show, largely because it's going to be a bloated 4+hour show that probably won't have any long term implications over filling a vacant title. The geopolitics suck, but it's hard to take a moral stand when I've watched for decades despite all the murders/racism/misogyny/general shithead behavior that has pretty much defined the business since day one. 

Perhaps it's a nilhlist point of view, but it's pretty much where I'm at right now. Plus like Charles said, once you start down that path it's impossible to have a totally clean moral slate.

This.

A clean moral slate is a pipedream. Aim for a clean mental slate instead. Don't avoid their shows because blood money. Avoid their shows because they just plain bore you.

[C.S.]

Is anyone in this thread even pressuring others to "mass boycott" WWE?

My own stance is: the Saudi Arabia issue is disgusting and I'm willing to send a message by cancelling my WWE Network subscription, but I won't call it a boycott because I'm sure I'll be back eventually when a free month entices me or something like that. 

And yeah, the product bores me and has for a long time. Can't wait for NJPW to stop operating like a low-rent ROH bush league and bring NJPW World to boxes people actually use (Roku, PlayStation 3 and 4, AppleTV, etc.). Of course, I'm sure NJPW's underbelly is just as dark and diseased, and they probably work with countries we consider "bad" or "evil" (North Korea?).

BTW, anyone reluctant to give up WWE Network because of NXT or 205 Live - they're both on Hulu (yes, even TakeOver). To me, that is a perfectly acceptable happy medium - cancelling the Network and watching those shows on Hulu. But again, I don't consider what I'm doing a "boycott" (I am against them for all the reasons Loss outlined). I probably won't watch any of the shows on Hulu anyway, but I won't feel bad if I indulge in the occasional TakeOver. Cancelling the Network (even temporarily) and saying why still sends some kind of message (albeit a very small one) and affects WWE's bottom line (granted, only a tiny bit). 

With all of that said, it doesn't bother me what anyone else does either way. If the next poster says he just bought a one-year subscription to WWE Network, I'd lol at the trolling but otherwise wouldn't judge or care.

 

[El-P]

58 minutes ago, Charles (Loss) said:

It's an admirable stand. I admire those who do it for sure.

Hum... It's not much to just stop watching a pro-wresling company. There's nothing "admirable" in this. On the other hand, yes, keeping supporting them while criticizing the SA deal is totally hypocritical. At the very least, get the shows by other means, don't give them any money if you still want to watch the product.

Let's not get carried away. People are doing admirable things in the world. Telling the WWE to go fuck themselves is not admirable, it's easy as shit and doesn't cost much. We're talking about stopping watching a pro-wrestling show on TV (and if you want pro-wrestling, it's never been easier to watch tons of it, legally or illegally). But It should be done now simply because they are awful people and they are displaying a total and complete lack of decency (but, well, it's nothing new I guess, but it takes new level of don't-give-a-fuckery now). The fact Google and Facebook also are awful companies doesn't matter because it's not the case at hands. That being said, no one forces you to go have a bad coffee at Starbuck, use Amazon or have a FB account either. I don't do the first two anymore because I've seen what they are all about (and really, Starbuck sucks, their coffee is terrible and they are selling overpriced shit food anyway). I do have a FB account that I use very sparsely, although I pretty much think FB is mostly a stupid and bad thing anyway.

I dunno, to me it's a matter of what you do knowing what you know about a specific case at a specific time, it's not about a "clean moral state". 

Imagine for a second if a huge wave of WWE subscribers would cancel the Network while at the same time, the WWE "superstars" would put their feet down and refuse to do that show. What potential of huge changes in the business practice that maybe would cause... That's acting out collectively to change things.

[The Thread Killer]

2 hours ago, El-P said:

Imagine for a second if a huge wave of WWE subscribers would cancel the Network while at the same time, the WWE "superstars" would put their feet down and refuse to do that show.

Hey, since we're now apparently imagining things that will never, ever happen in a million years...can Santa Claus come down from heaven on a magic pony to give me back the money I lost to Columbia House in that mail-order CD club scam?

[ragemaster]

I find it a joke that the Saudi show is the line in the sand, that people will cancel the network out of a protest. (I get not watching it)

Its still the same Vince who built his business on the dead bodies of wrestlers. Who still gives Brock/HHH/Rock a free reign to use steroids under a different contract than the rest of the crew.

The same Vince who sill has his wrestlers on independent contracts and under pays them.                                       

The same Vince who pushing a woman revolution, but still pushes woman on there looks and not there skill level.

After all this company have done over the years, I just find it hypocritical that this is human right issue that you just can't ignore. 

[Beast]

17 minutes ago, ragemaster said:

I find it a joke that the Saudi show is the line in the sand, that people will cancel the network out of a protest. (I get not watching it)

Its still the same Vince who built his business on the dead bodies of wrestlers. Who still gives Brock/HHH/Rock a free reign to use steroids under a different contract than the rest of the crew.

The same Vince who sill has his wrestlers on independent contracts and under pays them.                                       

The same Vince who pushing a woman revolution, but still pushes woman on there looks and not there skill level.

After all this company have done over the years, I just find it hypocritical that this is human right issue that you just can't ignore. 

So if you've watched WWE at any point knowing how scummy it has been, you can never stop? Maybe there's a difference between an actual human rights issue and wrestlers undervaluing themselves? 

I feel like doing business with a country that has a terrible record of human rights (and just murdered a US resident for speaking out against the regime) is different than any offensive angles or WWE business practices.

I don't understand "you weren't offended enough by these other no-related things" so it's hypocritical to be done with WWE over an actual political controversy. 

[El-P]

32 minutes ago, Beast said:

I don't understand "you weren't offended enough by these other no-related things" so it's hypocritical to be done with WWE over an actual political controversy. 

Yep. It's a complete cop-out and a way to wash your hands out of everything and put the blame (in this case, calling people hypocrite) on people who actually are gonna act out on this shit. In any case, better late than never.