All Elite Wrestling

[sek69]

I suppose all the people handwringing about AEW "ignoring" the situation can move on to the next manufactured outrage since it seems clear they wanted to be able to talk to him first before issuing a statement. 

[WingedEagle]

42 minutes ago, sek69 said:

I suppose all the people handwringing about AEW "ignoring" the situation can move on to the next manufactured outrage since it seems clear they wanted to be able to talk to him first before issuing a statement. 

On the other hand, they brought him in in the first place and booked him in matches one could reasonably expect to wreck his body and perhaps spur him toward certain voices.  They really had no other options at this point.

[NintendoLogic]

There shouldn't have been any decision to make. They should have made it clear to Jeff from the get-go that he was in one-strike-and-you're-out territory. There's no reason to think rehab will stick given his track record.

[sek69]

I will say it's pretty bad for them to book him in a ladder match for this week (that is obviously not happening now) after the ridiculous punishment he took in the Darby match and getting KO'd in the Bucks match. 

[Jesse Ewiak]

I mean, just maybe the WWE had a point in booking Jeff as basically a midcard nostalgia act, doing largely safe stuff, including possibly 24/7 goofiness. Even if it appears that didn't totally work. 

[Embrodak]

AEW should have done a big build for a one-off Hardyz vs Bucks match for the last PPV (wasn’t a good match, but could at least have had some juiciness to the build), then never had either Hardy wrestle for them again. The Hardyz are idiots for wrestling the way they do at their age, don’t enable them.

[Champagne]

3 hours ago, sek69 said:

I will say it's pretty bad for them to book him in a ladder match for this week (that is obviously not happening now) after the ridiculous punishment he took in the Darby match and getting KO'd in the Bucks match. 

It gets worse. In his arrest video, Jeff said he's scheduled to undergo a brain scan.

[Phil Schneider]

3 hours ago, sek69 said:

I will say it's pretty bad for them to book him in a ladder match for this week (that is obviously not happening now) after the ridiculous punishment he took in the Darby match and getting KO'd in the Bucks match. 

What ridiculous punishment  did he take in the Darby match? All the big spots in that match were by Darby

[DMJ]

I know that Hardy's style of wrestling hasn't helped his addiction and certainly played a big role in his reliance on pills, booze, and whatever else...but I don't think Jeff Hardy's drug addiction and alcoholism isn't singularly caused by wrestling a dangerous style. 

The idea that if Jeff just stuck to wrestling "safe" matches in WWE or did 24/7 comedy matches he wouldn't be a drug addict/alcoholic doesn't pass the smell test to me. Jeff Hardy's had no less than a half dozen "wake up call" moments in the past 20 years - a huge drug bust, getting kicked off a plane, 3 DUIs, a public intoxication charge, the Victory Road incidents, two firings from the WWE - and they've come at all different points of his career, dating back to 2003 and lord knows what incidents we don't really know about before then.

Granted, at all different points of his career he has wrestled the "Jeff Hardy style" so I'm not denying some causal relationship in his need to self-medicate based on his bump-heavy style...but I think there are layers beyond it. Just like Jake Roberts, who didn't wrestle a dangerous style. Just like Chyna, who barely wrestled. Tammy Sytch. Louie Spicolli. If it were just a dangerous style, RVD and Spike Dudley would be notorious addicts.

I know we've all faced hardships in our life, but losing your mom to brain cancer when you're 9 years old and essentially joining the circus (entering the pro-wrestling business in the mid-90s) at 16 are probably just as big of factors in his addiction as going through tables and leaping off ladders for the past two decades. 

[C.S.]

Nitpick, but what is the point of using the word "alleged" in that press release? I realize that's a standard issue boilerplate "cover your ass" legalese word to use, but why bother when everything was captured on tape?

[The Thread Killer]

10 minutes ago, C.S. said:

Nitpick, but what is the point of using the word "alleged" in that press release? I realize that's a standard issue boilerplate "cover your ass" legalese word to use, but why bother when everything was captured on tape?

Because on the off chance that Hardy actually decides to fight the charge, and is miraculously found not guilty, he then has a legal case for libel against anybody who declared him guilty before a legal conviction. The odds of that happening are minuscule of course, but on the off chance it could happen, the theoretical slanderer could conceivably have to pay thousands just to defend against a charge of libel. Better to just throw the word “alleged” in as a qualifier, to legally cover your ass.

[sek69]

Yeah it's common practice to call any legal matter not resolved by a court "alleged" no matter how apparent the person's guilt may or may not be.

[The Thread Killer]

There is a hilarious clip on YouTube of the late, great Norm MacDonald as a guest on Conan O’Brien’s show. They are talking about that sprinter who killed his girlfriend Oscar Pistorius. Norm mentions it, and then Conan quickly interjects and says “allegedly.”

Norm agrees, and says “Yes, allegedly. But also…really.”

 

[El-P]

8 hours ago, DMJ said:

I know that Hardy's style of wrestling hasn't helped his addiction and certainly played a big role in his reliance on pills, booze, and whatever else...but I don't think Jeff Hardy's drug addiction and alcoholism isn't singularly caused by wrestling a dangerous style. 

The idea that if Jeff just stuck to wrestling "safe" matches in WWE or did 24/7 comedy matches he wouldn't be a drug addict/alcoholic doesn't pass the smell test to me. Jeff Hardy's had no less than a half dozen "wake up call" moments in the past 20 years - a huge drug bust, getting kicked off a plane, 3 DUIs, a public intoxication charge, the Victory Road incidents, two firings from the WWE - and they've come at all different points of his career, dating back to 2003 and lord knows what incidents we don't really know about before then.

Granted, at all different points of his career he has wrestled the "Jeff Hardy style" so I'm not denying some causal relationship in his need to self-medicate based on his bump-heavy style...but I think there are layers beyond it. Just like Jake Roberts, who didn't wrestle a dangerous style. Just like Chyna, who barely wrestled. Tammy Sytch. Louie Spicolli. If it were just a dangerous style, RVD and Spike Dudley would be notorious addicts.

This. 

He wasn't working a super hard style in TNA either before the most infamous incident. Sure, at times he was doing stunts, but Jeff Hardy in TNA at this point was mostly by the numbers matches where he would sell a lot and do his token (sloppy looking), very usual in-ring spots. And he was much younger and way less banged up, and he still ended up completely fucked up. 

Also, getting fucked up is one thing. Driving while being fucked up is another completely. Even drunk as fuck, you can still have the conscience to get a taxi or an Über. Jeff Hardy apparently doesn't. This has nothing to do with whatever style of pro-rasslin he is doing. That's *entirely* on him. The guy has severe issues.

Oh, and all the people going tribalist shit with this posting "Vince was right" forget a tad bit quickly that actually, Vince tried to lure him back with the promise of an HOF induction to prevent him going the the opposition. Jeff simply did not take on the offer, but Vince was all about signing him back and honoring him in the process. So there. 

Also, having been in her situation *many times* over the years (and therefore I fully empathize with her, because it SUCKS on its own quite enough without having idiots pointing fingers), she's 100% right here :

People who don't know anything about what actually goes on should just shut the fuck up.

[sek69]

I don't think anyone was suggesting Jeff's wrestling style is the root cause of his issues, I know at least I'm not, but for sure continuing to do the moves and take the bumps he does is not going to end well for someone with such well documented demons. 

Blaming the family is indeed bullshit, and Matt's public comments so far seem to portray a guy who is trying his ass off for his brother while knowing it's always just a matter of time it seems until the next incident. 

I do think it's fair to ask Tony wtf he was thinking putting him in a ladder match considering the state he was in physically.  At some point he has to step in and be like "maybe you should just go home and rest for a month or so to get yourself right". At the end of the day the responsibility does fall on Jeff of course, but since he's long ago made it clear he isn't able to manage that responsibility, then fair or not it does kind of fall upon folks like the boss at his place of employment to take steps to either protect him from himself or at least protect any of the people he would be working with. Even if TK gave no shits about Jeff as a person,  he should have felt compelled to do something in the interest of protecting his company from having an event get fucked up. ESPECIALLY since it's involving someone who has a history of just that very thing happening. It's not just some random message board hypothetical, any company taking a chance with him at this point is holding a hand grenade with the pin pulled. 

[El-P]

17 minutes ago, sek69 said:

I do think it's fair to ask Tony wtf he was thinking putting him in a ladder match considering the state he was in physically.  At some point he has to step in and be like "maybe you should just go home and rest for a month or so to get yourself right". 

Oh, for sure. I was baffled when they booked that ladder match after learning Jeff was out during most of the Young Bucks match.

[Coffey]

OK, I've had some free time (and a day off) so I actually watched AEW Dark, which I know is pretty much just a jobber show to let people get reps in. Which is great. I used to love the WCW Sunday morning show (Main Event?) and some old WWF shows like Velocity & they were mostly undercard guys but you could still see good stuff.

With Dark, to me, I see a lot of potential. But what really stood out to me was that Anthony Ogogo & Nick Comoroto but have great looks. You can tell they're still super green... and on the gas, but I think they have future potential if they keep improving. Also, Nyla Rose kind of comes off as a star too big for that show.

[Matt D]

2 hours ago, Coffey said:

OK, I've had some free time (and a day off) so I actually watched AEW Dark, which I know is pretty much just a jobber show to let people get reps in. Which is great. I used to love the WCW Sunday morning show (Main Event?) and some old WWF shows like Velocity & they were mostly undercard guys but you could still see good stuff.

With Dark, to me, I see a lot of potential. But what really stood out to me was that Anthony Ogogo & Nick Comoroto but have great looks. You can tell they're still super green... and on the gas, but I think they have future potential if they keep improving. Also, Nyla Rose kind of comes off as a star too big for that show.

Dark was a lot of fun with a really hot crowd. Here's my thoughts from last night:

Spoiler

• On the one hand, these Factory vs Dark Order matches are always good. On the other, I started my day with Evil Uno/10 vs QT/Solo and I don't even remember who won that match, so....
• I like Fish. I think I like watching Fish more than I like watching O'Reilly though I imagine O'Reilly is probably better in a conventional sense. I liked his swagger here and his strikes in the corner and his fakeouts and that great finish. Anderson losing his posture after not winning with the spinebuster was very good.
• Very weird to have Kizarny there and not even mention him. Parker and Menard feel like a great Southern Rockers/Rock'n'Roll RPMs sort of team. They'd be able to be the top tag team in a really small 1987 territory and could occasionally rise to the levels of Memphis or Puerto Rico but they'd never get a look in the big leagues. I'm glad for their success here. Garcia wrestled the whole match with the hat. That chop in the corner was so nuts that he knew he had to deny the fans the second one so he laid in a kick.
• The crowd for the women's trios match was the best crowd for an AEW women's match I think I've ever heard. You can see the people in the hard cam reacting too so it's not like they had to sweeten it? If this was 2000, we'd be making a comp tape of all of the Nyla/Emi tags. I agree that Ruby's been looking really good in her striking lately, especially that headbutt. My favorite thing in this wasn't the really smooth southern tag moment where there was both one partner getting taken off the apron the follow-up to that meaning the ref was too distracted to see the tag to the other, but the set up where Anna Jay hit a flatliner because Emi took the time to LAUGH EVILLY.
• I wonder if Ogogo is working with Regal. He started the match with a cobra hold into a cravat into a side headlock. That fireman's carry flip about slam's pretty nasty. I liked his reaction to getting punched too.
• Obviously Takeshita vs Comoroto was really good. I didn't notice the crowd at all in Rampage but they were very engaged here. Comoroto playing along to it and allowing Takeshita to comeback was nice wrestling on the fly because there was no way to predict Hacksaw Jim Duggan chants. Comoroto skinning the cat was super impressive.
• Rust vs Sydal was good too. It's been a sneakily good couple of months for Sydal. Lots of little spots and counters and exchanges that were hit basically perfectly. Rust was able to do some tricked out stuff without making it look contrived.
• Kaz vs Page worked. There was an underlying issue, the local crowd, all the extra stuff on the outside. Page is just straight up solid: better technique than you'd expect because he doesn't lean on it so much as he uses it to get from point A to B when needed, the crowd interaction, always being into the match and reacting, more size and power than you'd think (as Taz/Excalibur noted). In 1986, he'd be a "ring general" sort of heel, and while it's debatable how well those guys have aged going back to their footage, there's still something to it. If 2.0 would be the Rock'n'Roll RPMs, Page is a guy who would have been top heel in a promotion and would come to WWF and be the second or third guy in Jimmy Hart's stable.

 

[Migs]

Thinking about what they can add for Forbidden Door:

• ZSJ-Danielson (discussed on Rampage, so presumably just pending Danielson getting cleared)
• Jay White/Hangman/Cole match (whether this is a 3 way, or a singles match, or even some kind of tag match, this seems like one thing)
• You'd have to think the Bucks get a match. Aussie Open?
• Desperado is clearly in the plans. Could either do him in singles (Jungle Boy?) or maybe a tag (him and Kanemaru or him and Archer against ReDragon?)

Either way, it feels like Dynamite is going to need to be a sprint to get everything set up in one show (while also presumably advancing the stories for what's announced).

[Jmare007]

Was it ever confirmed if Danielson's injury was a concussion? Dave (who has had direct contact with Bryan in every major news he's involved in) has been very quiet about it. I think I read that PWInsider reported it wasn't a concussions but that was on a random news site so they could just be making shit up and putting the Insider name on it.

[KawadaSmile]

Well, Danielson has been scheduled to appear at this week's Dynamite. 

[El-P]

If anything, ZSJ is the best guy to work a safe match if they want  it that way. If the guy was trusted enough to work with Shibata, Danielson would be fine.

[KawadaSmile]

Ishii is going to Forbidden Door. On the one hand, it has Miro, PAC, Black/Penta as well. On the other, it would be way better if it was just a 1v1 against any of those names.

[Jmare007]

Bryan Alvarez, who first reported that Danielson would be back "in 1-2 weeks" after his injury, now is saying Dragon "probably won't wrestle for quite some time", missing the PPV and Blood & Guts.

If this is true, I wonder if he's gonna make an appearance because his issues are serious. If it's a normal injury I don't think he should be cutting a promo about it, AEW has had enough bad news. So he's either in bad enough shape he feels the need to talk about it or maybe the are doing a Cody and making an angle to explain his "quite some time" absence?

Fuck man, I hope Alvarez is dead wrong again

[El-P]

The fact he's going on TV doesn't bode well at all if he indeed is injured and wants to address the situation.

Things are getting so cursed right now. Cody & Orton in WWE. Punk & Danielson in AEW. Hopefully Omega gets better eventually, he's sorely missed right now.