All Elite Wrestling

[SirEdger]

PAC vs Page is off Double or Nothing due to creative differences between PAC and AEW management. Apparently, PAC is extremely protective of his Dragon Gate titleholder status.

[sek69]

Comes off as either a weird flex by Pac or he still has some kind of PTSD from his WWE run. I get wanting to keep a title strong, but this isn't exactly jobbing the ECW champ to the WWE champ when ECW was still kinda sorta a major company. I couldn't name any title holders in Dragon Gate if you held a gun to my head. 

[Coffey]

Why not just have PAC win? A loss isn't gonna kill Page anyway.

[El-P]

Pro-wrestlers. 

[C.S.]

Edit: For some reason, a bunch of new-ish posts about this didn't show up until after I posted. Not sure why. Here is my post anyway...

"PAC vs. Adam Page is now off AEW Double or Nothing due to creative differences, according to F4WOnline.com."

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2019/05/adam-page-vs-pac-is-off-aew-double-or-nothing-card-654258/

Really hope that's not actually true but just something they're saying to build the match and get the smarks riled up and more invested in the feud.

From the article: "PAC has been steadfast about staying undefeated for the time being" and cut a promo after a match with Page in England saying "he wouldn't be going to Double or Nothing."

If any of that is true, fire PAC and be done with it IMO. While we all agree he could have been used better in WWE, he is not a star, not a draw, and not someone I would take any shit from if I were running a fed. He'll have cool flippy matches, sure, but that's a quota that can be filled by a dozen other guys on the indies with more upside potential. Plus, his name is fucking PAC. What the fuck is that? Everything about his act is awful (and I say that as someone who was actually warming up to him toward the end of his WWE stint - I never saw what the big deal was with him in NXT, but I came around when he turned heel and made Aries his bitch for three PPVs straight).  

[C.S.]

1 hour ago, Coffey said:

Why not just have PAC win? A loss isn't gonna kill Page anyway.

I'll counter that: Why have PAC win? Adam Page has the potential to be a major future star and main eventer for them. PAC? Not a star, not a draw, and not someone they should ever cater to in any way if he's making bullshit diva demands before they've even run their first show. 

[sek69]

Not to mention he's not exactly the NWA champion in the 70s coming in knowing he's here to make the local guy look good while not losing clean. No knock against Dragon Gate, but AEW's looking to be a major national (if not worldwide) promotion. The champion of a place like Dragon Gate doesn't have much leeway to pull any "that doesn't work for me, brother" shenanigans. 

[PeteF3]

Jon Snowden, rovert, and Sean Sapp on Twitter are all saying this is a cover for a visa issue. Pretty fuckin' stupid cover if (extra emphasis on if) that's the case.

[Strummer]

Have to say aew fans and wwe fans going back and forth on twitter is reminding me of wwf v wcw fans in the late 90s when you had to "pick a side". This is the way wrestling fandom used to be, folks.

[Migs]

He did have a visa issued that prevented him from showing up for Wrestlemania weekend, so that seems plausible.

[sek69]

It's doubly stupid if it is a cover since A: how does he not have that sorted out yet (yes I know current US politics make it hard now, but it's something a company backed by a billionaire could probably figure out) and B: why come up with a cover story that makes Pac out to look like a self important douche?

[Kadaveri]

It may not have much of a Western fanbase but Dragon Gate has been the 2nd or 3rd biggest promotion in Japan for the last decade, it's not some little indie company. PAC has been their undefeated champion for the last six months. it is not sensible to expect him to take a loss to Adam Page of all people on this show. Forget about him personally, why would Dragon Gate agree to have their champ lose? If you book another promotion's champion you really should know what the politics of that are.

[Coffey]

1 hour ago, C.S. said:

I'll counter that: Why have PAC win? Adam Page has the potential to be a major future star and main eventer for them. PAC? Not a star, not a draw, and not someone they should ever cater to in any way if he's making bullshit diva demands before they've even run their first show. 

I would agree with that had they not had this as one of their biggest four matches & not cancelled it until a week before the PPV.

It's just wonky all around. A real headache.

[C.S.]

3 minutes ago, Coffey said:

I would agree with that had they not had this as one of their biggest four matches & not cancelled it until a week before the PPV.

It's just wonky all around. A real headache.

The lack of PAC won't make one iota of difference to the PPV's bottom line. Whoever was ordering it still will.

If the PPV flops, it'll be because it's $50 and feels like nothing more than a placeholder before the TNT show.

[sek69]

41 minutes ago, Kadaveri said:

It may not have much of a Western fanbase but Dragon Gate has been the 2nd or 3rd biggest promotion in Japan for the last decade, it's not some little indie company. PAC has been their undefeated champion for the last six months. it is not sensible to expect him to take a loss to Adam Page of all people on this show. Forget about him personally, why would Dragon Gate agree to have their champ lose? If you book another promotion's champion you really should know what the politics of that are.

 

The drop off from New Japan to the 2nd or 3rd biggest promotion in Japan has been a pretty big chasm for a long time. I suppose the argument can be made the gap has been closing, but it's still more along the lines of "tallest little person" than anything else.  

[Hernan]

I can understand that PAC and/or Dragon Gate don't want their Open the Dream Gate Champion (PAC) to lose but I found it a little unprofessional when they cancelled it after months of building the match up. Plus, they shouldn't worry about since the title is not on the line.

[SirEdger]

Especially since PAC was already the champion when the match was announced for Double or Nothing.

As for the so-called visa issue, if that's true, why not say it openly rather than speculating about PAC refusing to do a job for Page?

[donsem43]

It makes the office people in charge of stuff like this look incompetent?

[PeteF3]

And this doesn't?

Visa issues could very easily and reasonably be blamed on the Trump Administration.

[Mad Dog]

So what Dave saying is the issue might be that Pac was going to win here but the issue was Pac vs. Omega at All In 2. That makes sense but I think they should have considered his status as DG Champion before they planned that.

[Stiva]

Have Adam Page issue an open challenge to any top-tier cruiserweight as a replacement, Jack Evans answers, he bends his ass back over to put Page over in a squash. Page takes the mic, bullshits somewhat, issues another challenge that is answered by John Moxley. The "match" is a total washout as Page takes a powder while Moxley stands tall in the ring but it means you retain the Hangman Page match as a major moment on the card, you retain Page going over and, with Moxley debuting in his orbit, you ensure Hangman Page is a serious contender going forward and you have another hook for the first TV show with a former WWE star showing up where the big boys play. 

[SomethingSavage]

Hangman Page being considered a top guy going forward is probably the least likable thing I've heard about AEW so far.

I mean, it's not the dirt worst idea. But it's not exactly something that gets me excited. When did people start seeing this dude as a top guy? And why?

If it's a very recent thing, then please. By all means, recommend me some viewing so I can see for myself. I'll gladly remain open to having my mind changed on the guy.

But in everything I've seen from him for the last 5 years or so, he strikes me as a perfectly passable mid-card guy. No harm in that either.

But I always think back to that feud with Jay Briscoe in ROH. They're having this wild, violent, bloody battle. And I'm starting to see Page as a possible threat. A believable threat.

But then he just has to sprint across the apron with all the coordinated athleticism of a crippled goose & do a gainer through the air with that silly Shooting Star Shoulder block shit.

And he whiffs. Completely.

And Jay has to sell it like a shotgun blast to the face.

Page rejoices. The rest of us weep in embarrassment and reach the realization that this guy is looked at like a geek for a reason.

But hey. If the consensus is that he's leveled up from being a Bullet Club B-team guy, let me know.

[El-P]

3 minutes ago, SomethingSavage said:

I mean, it's not the dirt worst idea. But it's not exactly something that gets me excited. When did people start seeing this dude as a top guy? And why?

As a worker, killed it in the G1 Climax last year. And they are going with new guys. They are gonna establish their own people. That's the right thing to do.

[Mad Dog]

I think Adam Page is a perfectly good gatekeeper type. He would be a good secondary title holder or that guy you beat on your way up to facing Omega .

[Jmare007]

On 5/18/2019 at 6:16 PM, sek69 said:

NJPW stuggling to sell tickets for non MSG shows since they left seems to indicate they were at least sort of correct though? We kept hearing how important the US expansion was, but they didn't seem to think they didn't need to keep the Elite guys around.  Six man tags with LA Dojo guys don't seem to be cutting it. 

But they were struggling to sell tickets in most shows they did in the US besides the G1 Specials. Mostly because New Japan did a horrible job promoting and scheduling them, the problems continuing isn't surprising or a sign of them missing the Bucks, imo.

 

But the US expansion was always sold like this. A bunch of house shows style events mainly done to give the LA dojo people an opportunity to show their stuff. Meji has made it a bigger deal than Kidani, but it has never been sold like a game changer. It's been fans and reporters that have made it a big deal, specially because some of the shows did great and because they do book 1 or 2 big ones a year, in 2019 they have MSG and G-1 at Dallas, the rest is just meh.

 

23 hours ago, sek69 said:

Not to mention he's not exactly the NWA champion in the 70s coming in knowing he's here to make the local guy look good while not losing clean. No knock against Dragon Gate, but AEW's looking to be a major national (if not worldwide) promotion. The champion of a place like Dragon Gate doesn't have much leeway to pull any "that doesn't work for me, brother" shenanigans. 

Disagree again. At this stage, AEW doesn't have the pull to make the Dream Gate champion job to a guy like Page. If this was Omega, I'd agree with your argument though.

 

8 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

So what Dave saying is the issue might be that Pac was going to win here but the issue was Pac vs. Omega at All In 2. That makes sense but I think they should have considered his status as DG Champion before they planned that.

Actually this makes even less sense to me. 

If the problem was "we don't know if PAC is gonna pull this shit against Kenny while he's champ" then save that match for later when he drops the strap. It's a pretty damn big match up and there's no rush to book it. You make PAC beat Page, cut the same promo he did in the UK and save his return for that big encounter against a bigger name were you make him take the L.