Royal Rumble 2019

[Zoo Enthusiast]

25 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Shit, really? There is absolutely no reason for that. It was a pretty good match that had a dead crowd, that's all

It was probably a tad long but it was good stuff.

[FMKK]

Is it just me or did fucking Ziggler of all people taking out Drew seem like a bit of a de-push for him?

[NintendoLogic]

It was pretty apparent that I was an extreme outlier in how much I enjoyed Bryan/AJ, so I went back and rewatched it. I still thought it was fantastic, albeit perhaps not the MOTY I initially pegged it as. The dead crowd hurt it quite a bit, but it's the kind of match that played better on TV than in a stadium. When a match is built around targeting a body part, it's the subtle details that take it to the next level, and a sequence like Bryan blocking the Phenomenal Forearm by kicking AJ's injured arm followed by AJ having to go up the turnbuckle because he can't springboard is probably going to go over the head of someone in the nosebleeds.

[Mad Dog]

They also really need to shorten these shows. 5-6 hours is just too long to expect an audience to stay invested and captivated. I also think two Rumbles is overkill. This kind of show with two Rumbles maybe should have 3 matches outside of that. It's just crazy that they think they can run until midnight on a Sunday. The length is also not casual friendly at all. No one who isn't hardcore into the product is going to want to invest 6 pm to midnight on a Sunday. 

[Migs]

5 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

Shit, really? There is absolutely no reason for that. It was a pretty good match that had a dead crowd, that's all

Yeah, they really just couldn't follow the moment with Becky. Nothing was going to. It also hurt that they've had so many good matches against each other recently - the pairing just didn't have the juice it did in November. And to build things up just to do that finish... eh. But if you watch that match out of context in a year, it's probably ***1/2.

[C.S.]

Re: Asuka

I had a friend who was there live, so I made it a point to ask him about Asuka's crowd reactions.

He said Asuka was over with the crowd and it was actually a pretty split crowd between her and Becky.

It didn't come across that way at all on TV, at least not for me.

So, I stand corrected.

(BTW, is this the first time anyone on a message board, ever, has admitted to being wrong? It's a rare occurrence, at least.)

[Coffey]

Asuka doing the... Chicken Mutilation? for a finish was pretty fucking sweet & got me to pop. Never seen the bridge off of a crossface chickenwing before. Fuckin' owned.

[Robert S]

9 hours ago, ShittyLittleBoots said:

Fell asleep during Becky vs. Asuka last night. Watching the show now, and I certainly am very intrigued by the response Bryan & AJ have got online. Seen a few DUD's & 1-stars being thrown around at it.

I thought that it was easily match of the night and one of the best main show WWE matches in the last year. Probably it helped that I took a break between the Women's Rumble and the rest of the show, no way to go through a five hour show in one sitting.

If they are continuing having these 6 hour PPVs they have to bring back cooldown matches. It would obviously be much better to have a three hour main show with a one hour pre-show. Doing single-branded PPVs (for all shows except the big four) would help, for example. I mean the roster in theory should be stacked enough that they should be able to do good single-branded PPVs every other month. What's also killing these shows is that there are almost no matches anymore that are just about a feud, everything is for a title. There what? Nine main show titles (each show has its main title, its secondary title, its women title and its tag team title, plus the 205 title) is just too much for these double-branded PPVs. Weren't there even talks of introducing women's tag team titles as well or was it a 205 tag team title, so increasing the number to 10 or 11?

[SomethingSavage]

Well, this was a fairly fun show that stirred up similar vibes and comparisons to WrestleMania 30 for me. There were great things; there were meh things. And my overall perception pretty much hinged on a singular booking decision. So yeah. Just a fairly fun show, to be honest.

Maybe you guys are down on some things that don't bother me, because I don't have any intention or obligation to actually tune in and watch the next few weeks or whatever. I don't have to deal with the fallout of the Kingslayer winning or whatever. I just watched this standalone show, LOVED (most of) it, and I'll be back for next year's Rumble. The chances of me catching an entire 5-6 hour WWE show between now & then are extremely, incredibly slim.

I'm stoked that they went all in on Becky. And, truth be told, if they hadn't? My overall opinion of this show could look drastically different. Same deal with Mania 30 really. If they'd fucked that up by making the wrong decision, then the entire show would be perceived as damaged. But they made good here. They went with Becky, and it was a magnificent moment in time. I sincerely hope they follow through now & bring it to the rightful conclusion.

I have my doubts. Their bizarre booking of previously molten hot acts like Braun and Rusev leaves me baffled. There are still areas (even evident here in this show) that resemble 2014 or 2015. The booking hasn't improved all that much in the grand scheme of things. But this one night felt like an enjoyable outlier for me.

The matches weren't all home runs. And the booking CLEARLY wasn't flawless. But, as one big card, I mostly dug it. WWE struggles to deliver with these super show slogs, so the fact that I actually watched the whole thing and didn't end up loathing life when it was over is just about the greatest compliment I can give it.

Of course Seth winning is hell on earth. Dude will probably pick up another ridiculous nickname off this win, and so that means they'll probably print another shirt that will be every child's last resort at the merchandise stand - the item their parents buy when all the good shit is gone & sold out.

Expect to see a lot of teary-eyed kids, pouting as their parents make them wear these awfully dull "Rumble Master Rollins" shirts or whateverthefuck these next several weeks... While the world's only Architect who can't draw a house hisses his way through promos about burning down things. Or something equally stupid.

And fans will continue to respond as they always do. They'll cheer his Davey Richards spots, and then promptly chant "Boring" around the body of his matches. Because his matches are all predictable, fast-paced Plug & Play routines.

Seth is the obsessive-compulsive kid who MUST turn the doorknob a dozen times before he leaves the house. Except Seth must dive three times, hiss like a snake, and slap his knee like it's a nervous tick. He's got OCD for shitty, meaningless, white noise wrestling. And he is your WrestleMania headliner, I guess?

*shrugs*

Oh! But let's talk about Sasha versus Ronda! That one fucking rocked my socks. Ronda's selling was incrrrredible. Sasha's submission game was fiyah. Everything in the universe combined just right for this fight, and it was glorious.

I mean, sure. You can get overly analytical about some timing issues or some slips here & there, but nah. Fuck that noise. This was awesome possum. I'd watch this match about fifty-eleven times & still call for more rematches. I understand we're working on a ticking clock with Ronda right now, but I'd be all over a series between these two.

Sasha showed the fuck up here - in total walking, talking, romping, stomping BOSS mode. I feel like I'd forgotten how tremendous she could be in these big match situations. She's reckless, but there's a specific kind of charm & appeal to that. Always has been. Plus she brings personality in spades. Foxy is one of a kind, but it's like Sasha channels the same sort of eye-catching charisma and COMBINES it with all the in-ring tools as well. She really should command a higher position in the division once Mania has come & gone.

So yeah. This show was worthwhile. I went in, basically banking on the goodwill from last year's Rumble. To their credit, they didn't totally disappoint. Doubt I catch another full main roster show until next year's Rumble, because fuck a Seth Rollins push. I lived that trauma twice already. Life's too short. I'm going back to selective viewing until they figure out fan-service should be the new booking strategy in today's economy.

[SomethingSavage]

Forgot to mention - Daniel Bryan continues to shine. This heel act is morphing into Bray Wyatt, if only Bray cut coherent promos on tangible targets. It's Bray, if only that character upheld actual ideals and spoke about specific values instead of vague nothingness.

[Mad Dog]

I have to take issue with your post there. You forgot the part where Rollins injures his knee every single fucking match.

[SomethingSavage]

10 minutes ago, Mad Dog said:

I have to take issue with your post there. You forgot the part where Rollins injures his knee every single fucking match.

He injures my soul every single fucking match, because it's kind of hard to tell he's injured when he's Powerbombing people left & right.

...

Seth is shit.

I *did* like your idea of Finn coming back out as the Demon to win the thing though. I'm far from the biggest Finn fan, but that would've told a more engaging story. Coming fresh off the Brock match, it could've accomplished a lot actually - cementing him as the "never say die" challenger, galvanizing him at the upper echelon, and making the Cena endorsement truly MEAN something all in one swoop. Sweep? Swipe? Whatever.

... Fuck Seth, either way.

[Mad Dog]

I advocate a lot for Finn because he's over. I went to a live show after Christmas and he was the most over guy on Raw. He has some it factor that people like. Rollins is over because he's constantly pushed. It's kind of the Randy Orton syndrome where you could probably shift some of that effort into a guy like Finn Balor and see greater rewards.

The other positive is there's a story there. Finn gave it everything he had and Lesnar got the win, well now he has the Demon to deal with. It's why the Demon exists. You could even have Lesnar come out and laugh it off kind of nervously at first and then go from there.

[FMKK]

50 minutes ago, SomethingSavage said:

Well, this was a fairly fun show that stirred up similar vibes and comparisons to WrestleMania 30 for me. There were great things; there were meh things. And my overall perception pretty much hinged on a singular booking decision. So yeah. Just a fairly fun show, to be honest.

Maybe you guys are down on some things that don't bother me, because I don't have any intention or obligation to actually tune in and watch the next few weeks or whatever. I don't have to deal with the fallout of the Kingslayer winning or whatever. I just watched this standalone show, LOVED (most of) it, and I'll be back for next year's Rumble. The chances of me catching an entire 5-6 hour WWE show between now & then are extremely, incredibly slim.

I'm stoked that they went all in on Becky. And, truth be told, if they hadn't? My overall opinion of this show could look drastically different. Same deal with Mania 30 really. If they'd fucked that up by making the wrong decision, then the entire show would be perceived as damaged. But they made good here. They went with Becky, and it was a magnificent moment in time. I sincerely hope they follow through now & bring it to the rightful conclusion.

I have my doubts. Their bizarre booking of previously molten hot acts like Braun and Rusev leaves me baffled. There are still areas (even evident here in this show) that resemble 2014 or 2015. The booking hasn't improved all that much in the grand scheme of things. But this one night felt like an enjoyable outlier for me.

The matches weren't all home runs. And the booking CLEARLY wasn't flawless. But, as one big card, I mostly dug it. WWE struggles to deliver with these super show slogs, so the fact that I actually watched the whole thing and didn't end up loathing life when it was over is just about the greatest compliment I can give it.

Of course Seth winning is hell on earth. Dude will probably pick up another ridiculous nickname off this win, and so that means they'll probably print another shirt that will be every child's last resort at the merchandise stand - the item their parents buy when all the good shit is gone & sold out.

Expect to see a lot of teary-eyed kids, pouting as their parents make them wear these awfully dull "Rumble Master Rollins" shirts or whateverthefuck these next several weeks... While the world's only Architect who can't draw a house hisses his way through promos about burning down things. Or something equally stupid.

And fans will continue to respond as they always do. They'll cheer his Davey Richards spots, and then promptly chant "Boring" around the body of his matches. Because his matches are all predictable, fast-paced Plug & Play routines.

Seth is the obsessive-compulsive kid who MUST turn the doorknob a dozen times before he leaves the house. Except Seth must dive three times, hiss like a snake, and slap his knee like it's a nervous tick. He's got OCD for shitty, meaningless, white noise wrestling. And he is your WrestleMania headliner, I guess?

*shrugs*

Oh! But let's talk about Sasha versus Ronda! That one fucking rocked my socks. Ronda's selling was incrrrredible. Sasha's submission game was fiyah. Everything in the universe combined just right for this fight, and it was glorious.

I mean, sure. You can get overly analytical about some timing issues or some slips here & there, but nah. Fuck that noise. This was awesome possum. I'd watch this match about fifty-eleven times & still call for more rematches. I understand we're working on a ticking clock with Ronda right now, but I'd be all over a series between these two.

Sasha showed the fuck up here - in total walking, talking, romping, stomping BOSS mode. I feel like I'd forgotten how tremendous she could be in these big match situations. She's reckless, but there's a specific kind of charm & appeal to that. Always has been. Plus she brings personality in spades. Foxy is one of a kind, but it's like Sasha channels the same sort of eye-catching charisma and COMBINES it with all the in-ring tools as well. She really should command a higher position in the division once Mania has come & gone.

So yeah. This show was worthwhile. I went in, basically banking on the goodwill from last year's Rumble. To their credit, they didn't totally disappoint. Doubt I catch another full main roster show until next year's Rumble, because fuck a Seth Rollins push. I lived that trauma twice already. Life's too short. I'm going back to selective viewing until they figure out fan-service should be the new booking strategy in today's economy.

This line fucking ended me. Bravo

[El-P]

So I came back in a fairly better mood after a fairly easier day.

.... to watch a match involving Shane O-Mac. Ok. Back to boycott

Ok, so... Sasha vs Ronda Rousey. And holy shit this was the Banks of old, remember when there was this talk about how she was a Top 5 worker in the world. Yeah, yeah, kinda overstating a wee bit. But here she was again, doing torture like arm work and shit like she's Oz (Mayumi, not Kevin Nash). Rousey is ridiculous. Of course this is a super scripted, heavily prepared environment, but you can't hold that against her. The way she does little things, the way she moves, her execution (yes, it matters), her facials... She's clearly one of the best rookie ever (I can put Mika Akino right next to her in term of women). I'd be tempted to go all the way to great match. MOTN anyway. Loved this.

Women's Rumble. Well... not like last year. First half was essentially not very good. Or even bad at points. I guess Lacy Evans is gonna get some big push. Yeah, WWE loves their tall blonde with good looks still. Speaking of which, after months of not watching any WWE and watching tons of other stuff, it really struck me how badly glossed up most of the girls are there. To the point of making them actively unattractive, which I don't think is the point. Why do the men worker don't wear a dozen cover of makeup ? Anyway... Hey, Maria Kanellis is a surprise, to assure she will not jump to AEW. Damn Twitter rumours. Second half was better, but still nowhere as good as last year's masterfully booked first edition. Damn, Nia Jaxx also sucks at working the Diesel part. Her clotheslines are now sub-Luger level. Damn she's the Kane of this match. Gotta love how everyone here hates flips and shit, but a gymnast shows up and does gymnasts tricks and everyone is loving it (not to say it was not super cool to watch)... And I know Alexa gets no love around here, but she's still so good at being a petite bitch heel. Glad she was involved, she shined. Also, when did Carmella became good like that ? I had some other thing in mind, but too much happened since that point of the night. Oh yeah, the Mandy fucking over the save spot by Miss Glow was all kind of great. 

So, ok, the last part of the match was great, although the whole "Becky gets injured" was overdone and overdramatic to me, but that's WWE. Anyway, I guess they learned their lessons from the Bryan debacle. They lucked into Becky getting over like crazy, and she should main event Mania against Rousey (I accept a three way with Charlotte, who's too good to be denied, but still, Becky deserves the Stone Cold moment at Mania).

AJ Styles vs Daniel Bryan. Ok, so this is TNA vs ROH, basically. Yes it is. They haven't learned to work that way by watching HHH's matches, ya know... Well, it was wonderfully done and way too subtle for a WWE dome show audience. Would have worked wonder in Korakuen Hall or something. Great minimalistic work by Bryan, AJ Styles danced along masterfully (that's how you sell something, Rollins, you dummie). And.... a total fuck finish which killed any notion of this match being great. Erik Rowan ? Da fuck ? Gotta love WWE also for its backward view of society. The vegan guy concerned with the state of the planet has to be a heel. The guy with a bad haircut and ugly looking beard who's a real life homophobic and probably more of the same ilk is the babyface. But I mean, Erik Rowan ? Da Fuck ?

By this point, I just wanted my men's Rumble, anticipating the big time surprise that was the reason why it was closing the show...

Ok, so, Lesnar vs Balor. Damn, best Lesnar match in forever (I haven't seen the AJ match, just sayin'). It shows how good Lesnar is when he wants to be. The way he really put his body on the line to catch Balor on these topes also shows the respect he got for him (as opposed to, well you know). More of this kind of Lesnar please.

Can I get a 60sc time Rumble ? Fuck me, Double J. Hey, did someone made fun of the fact he was fat ? And old ? And no one to cry foul and run to Twitter to complain ? Damn. And more old guys with Angle. And between them, Nakamura in the Karen spot... Ok, I thought this Ruble was mostly quite good, with tons of cool surprise entrants, no real dead time, some fun comedy or cool spots (Titus - the conga line being killed by Drew). The Kofi save spots have officially became totally stupid and annoying though. The whole "two feet have to touch the floor" just don't mean jack shit if your entire body on the floor doesn't count. Oh, anyway. Corbin in the Kane spot. This guy still employed ? And the big surprise is... Nia fucking Jaxx ? So let me understand, being a shitty and dangerous worker who doesn't get over despite being protected as fuck because you're from a famous family gets you *that* spot ? That was the big plan ? Holy shit, that sucked. Awful. Well, her taking the finishers was fun at least. Wait, Ziggler is in the final four ? Rollins wins after being forgotten forever outside ? Ok, that whole last part sucked a whole lot. WWE never fail on ruining what could have been a super hot show (and no, that Shane O-Mac match did not happen).

Still, the two hottest spots were Ronda vs Sasha and the final stage of the women's Rumble. Asuka vs Becky was at least very good (haven't re-watched it). Lesnar delivered. AJ & Bryan work went ahead of everyone's head seemingly, but then got a completely stupid fuck finish involving Erik Rowan ? Da fuck ?

So yeah, too much great stuff to hate on it. But waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too fucking long. Rusev should have been in the Rumble instead of, I dunno, NIA FUCKING JAXX or DOLH FUCKING ZIGGLER... And gotta love a tag-team revival (pun intended) that has the 50 year old son-of as a champ. But the great stuff was worth it. 

See you at Mania, hopefully during the live broadcast, so I can mumble drunk shit with my keyboard at 5 in the morning. (you smart asses still entertained me reading the thread tonight though)

[NintendoLogic]

I was only half paying attention to Sasha/Ronda when it happened, so I went back and watched it again. I too was impressed by Ronda's arm selling, but the match overall was nothing special until the last few minutes.

With the women working high-profile matches on major shows, it's become impossible to ignore how markedly inferior even the best ones (or at least the US-trained ones) are to the top men from a technical standpoint. They're less explosive, their execution is sloppier, and they telegraph everything worse than a Punch-Out character. That doesn't mean they can't get over or draw money. It doesn't even mean they can't have great matches. But calling them the best wrestlers in the company, let alone the world, is laughable.

[Microstatistics]

Asuka vs. Becky Lynch

I wish more people incorporated struggle into their matches like Asuka does. One thing I don't like about Becky generally is that her offense is weak but she turned it on here with some vicious stuff. Great finish. Good title bout. ***1/4

[Microstatistics]

Brock Lesnar vs. Finn Balor 

I made a mistake of reading reviews of this and getting my hopes up. It's good but nothing more. Pretty great selling by Brock and Finn's focused attacks. Nice desperation finish. The pacing was so lethargic though. I expected a compact and intense sprint but this just lumbered along and that's my main criticism. The postmatch was also weak. ***

[Microstatistics]

As much as I like body part psychology and things like dueling limb work, Bryan and Styles have run it into the ground over the past 9 months. The AJ's arm vs. Bryan's knee stuff is almost tedious now. All they have to do is switch things up (flip limbs or work over something else). 

[Alucard]

On 1/27/2019 at 11:06 PM, NintendoLogic said:

If Becky is facing Ronda at Mania, she shouldn't have tapped clean to Asuka. Now it looks like she's ducking the real champion.

Agreed 100%. No reason to believe Becky's suddenly this big threat to Ronda who has been unbeatable to this point. Real momentum killer IMO.

Going back to Asuka, she got a pretty massive pop when Becky was choosing who to replace her at Survivor Series and she passed by her. There were reports that even Vince was impressed by that and it may have played into Asuka getting added to the TLC match. In spite of whatever booking, she's remained super over and I'm glad she's been built back up to the top spot. Definitely looking forward to Asuka/Charlotte II one year later if they go that route.

Also since it was mentioned earlier - HHH was the first to target Brock's diverticulitis and work the stomach at Summerslam 2012.

 

[C.S.]

7 hours ago, SomethingSavage said:

Of course Seth winning is hell on earth. Dude will probably pick up another ridiculous nickname off this win, and so that means they'll probably print another shirt that will be every child's last resort at the merchandise stand - the item their parents buy when all the good shit is gone & sold out.

Expect to see a lot of teary-eyed kids, pouting as their parents make them wear these awfully dull "Rumble Master Rollins" shirts or whateverthefuck these next several weeks... While the world's only Architect who can't draw a house hisses his way through promos about burning down things. Or something equally stupid.

Holy shit! 

Time for you to start the "Wrestlers who are better than Seth Rollins" thread.  

[Stiva]

9 hours ago, Mad Dog said:

I advocate a lot for Finn because he's over. I went to a live show after Christmas and he was the most over guy on Raw. He has some it factor that people like. Rollins is over because he's constantly pushed. It's kind of the Randy Orton syndrome where you could probably shift some of that effort into a guy like Finn Balor and see greater rewards.

The other positive is there's a story there. Finn gave it everything he had and Lesnar got the win, well now he has the Demon to deal with. It's why the Demon exists. You could even have Lesnar come out and laugh it off kind of nervously at first and then go from there.

The only problem with that is that the Demon is the exact same Balor, just with a wackier entrance. Unless we’re to believe that he suddenly hits harder, like the second form of a final boss

[El-P]

The more I think of it, the more the women Rumble looks bad, but in a so-bad-it's-good. So much awful spots (the idiotic hat spot, Hornswoggle basically chasing down Vega in a very creepy way), botches (big up to James & Evans), bad workers (that Peyton girl which I only know thanks to the "Meltzer is a sexist pig" debacle last summer sure looked awful, at least the other Ilconic was kinda funny, sorta). Not to mention very poorly thought out timing in term of out the spots were put together. And from a production standpoint, tons of missed stuff and fuck ups, at points I thought I was watching AAA on Twich. The fact the last third had Charlotte with Becky and Bayley again was really telling in how these three are in another league with most of the girls here (not counting Shirai & Sane). 

Also, the men's rumble was rushed as all hell at some point, I swear there must have been some 60sc intervals… Also, Bobby Lashley is amazingly unover, no one gave a flying fuck about him.

Looking back at it, these two rumbles probably don't fare very well in the grand scheme of things.

[FMKK]

8 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

I was only half paying attention to Sasha/Ronda when it happened, so I went back and watched it again. I too was impressed by Ronda's arm selling, but the match overall was nothing special until the last few minutes.

With the women working high-profile matches on major shows, it's become impossible to ignore how markedly inferior even the best ones (or at least the US-trained ones) are to the top men from a technical standpoint. They're less explosive, their execution is sloppier, and they telegraph everything worse than a Punch-Out character. That doesn't mean they can't get over or draw money. It doesn't even mean they can't have great matches. But calling them the best wrestlers in the company, let alone the world, is laughable.

This sloppiness thing doesn't bother me at all. To me, it just makes the matches look more like fights and gives them a sense of struggle that I think are absent in some of the top men's stuff. Yeah, sometimes shit looks bad but to me it works in their favour more often than it works to their detriment. And considering Ronda hasn't even been a wrestler for a year, I'm happy enough to overlook some rougher points in execution, something that can improve in time, for the aura that she brings that can't be taught.

[FMKK]

48 minutes ago, El-P said:

The more I think of it, the more the women Rumble looks bad, but in a so-bad-it's-good. So much awful spots (the idiotic hat spot, Hornswoggle basically chasing down Vega in a very creepy way), botches (big up to James & Evans), bad workers (that Peyton girl which I only know thanks to the "Meltzer is a sexist pig" debacle last summer sure looked awful, at least the other Ilconic was kinda funny, sorta). Not to mention very poorly thought out timing in term of out the spots were put together. And from a production standpoint, tons of missed stuff and fuck ups, at points I thought I was watching AAA on Twich. The fact the last third had Charlotte with Becky and Bayley again was really telling in how these three are in another league with most of the girls here (not counting Shirai & Sane). 

Also, the men's rumble was rushed as all hell at some point, I swear there must have been some 60sc intervals… Also, Bobby Lashley is amazingly unover, no one gave a flying fuck about him.

Looking back at it, these two rumbles probably don't fare very well in the grand scheme of things.

Yeah, I can't believe how many times people were getting eliminated while someone else was doing their entrance. That's some armature hour shit.

They need to get Sane up to the main roster pronto imo. Her bit with Flair was hot as hell and I'd love a few matches between them. Charlotte could be the perfect bully character for Sane to play off.