WWE TV 7/1 - 7/7 The Return of the Return of Heyman and Bischoff

[ButchReedMark]

But watching this match, imagine the Rowan Otis could be. 

[KawadaSmile]

3 minutes ago, ButchReedMark said:

Rowan has always been ace. He's perfect muscle. After nearly melted a plastic mask to his face during an inferno match like an idiot he's been a pretty great hoss. Doesn't get enough respect. 

I always found him to be absolutely bland, although a very competent tag wrestler. Now he's showing more personality and he seems like he would be comfortable having a singles run.

[ButchReedMark]

And there's your turn

[KawadaSmile]

Man this crowd was on fire for the Heavy Machinery win. Great news!

[ButchReedMark]

Otis is money. Likable, charismatic, athletic, Charismatic, likable, can do weird feats of strength, charismatic, likable and can work. 

He's like Big E but won't be Tom Robinson in a promoter's Bob Ewell eyes 

[The Thread Killer]

3 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

Michael Cole is possibly the best play by play guy out there, but being micromanaged to the point of madness doesn't do him any favors. When he's in more loose settings,  he's awesome. Beast in the East, UK Tournament and MYC2 are evidences that dude is great.

Oh man, KS.  I normally admire your ability to find something positive in even the most negative aspects of the WWE product, but I really think you're off base on this issue, in my opinion.  For example I watched Super Showdown, and yeah that show was horrible and maybe one of the worst shows I've ever seen - but Michael Cole was at his all time worst during that broadcast.  He doesn't even call matches anymore, he just lovingly and gleefully spouts cliches ("Vintage Undertaker! Vintage Shane! Vintage Vintage!") in the most insufferably insincere manner. To me he personifies everything about Vince McMahon's vision of Pro Wrestling that I hate. Even within the confines of Vince McMahon's announcing production, I'd take Tom Phillips or Vic Joseph any day of the week.  The only play-by-play guy I hate more than Michael Cole is Mauro Ranallo, and that's just due to Mauro's constant idiotic pop culture references and the constant screaming.  And when it comes to screaming, sometimes Cole gives Ranallo a run for his money.

[The Thread Killer]

1 hour ago, Tenese Sarwieh said:

History is going to look back and ask how in the world WWE didn't do anything with Big E? the guy is the total package.

Some of that is on Big E.  I've seen interviews where he says that he has refused to be split off from The New Day under any circumstances.  There's only so much mileage you're going to be able to get from a guy throwing pancakes around and swivelling his hips.  Considering his abilities, he could and should be considered a monster, but apparently he'd rather dance around in costumes and give the fans breakfast cereal.

[C.S.]

8 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said:

Some of that is on Big E.  I've seen interviews where he says that he has refused to be split off from The New Day under any circumstances.  There's only so much mileage you're going to be able to get from a guy throwing pancakes around and swivelling his hips.  Considering his abilities, he could and should be considered a monster, but apparently he'd rather dance around in costumes and give the fans breakfast cereal.

To be fair, all of that shit has kept him far more over, far more relevant, and has given his career far more longevity than a "Monster of the Month" push would. We've seen how that goes. Just ask Rusev.

[The Thread Killer]

I agree that even if he did agree to be split off from The New Day, WWE "creative" would probably screw it up because hey...they pretty much screw everything up lately.  I just don't get a guy with all the physical gifts that Big E has limiting himself like that.  But it could very well be that he thinks he's better off being comfortable in the New Day than having creative botch a potential singles run and hurt his potential long term viability.

[Strummer]

51 minutes ago, Badlittlekitten said:

Holy shit what are they doing with Shelton?

Main event looks pretty lacklustre. Where the hell are Roman and Charlotte?

Charlotte was in San Antonio for the show according to her socials.  I guess they are waiting till the ppv is over to start something with her.

pretty sure Roman is doing promotional work right now. Either for the company or "Hobbs and Shaw"

[KawadaSmile]

17 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said:

Oh man, KS.  I normally admire your ability to find something positive in even the most negative aspects of the WWE product, but I really think you're off base on this issue, in my opinion.  For example I watched Super Showdown, and yeah that show was horrible and maybe one of the worst shows I've ever seen - but Michael Cole was at his all time worst during that broadcast.  He doesn't even call matches anymore, he just lovingly and gleefully spouts cliches ("Vintage Undertaker! Vintage Shane! Vintage Vintage!") in the most insufferably insincere manner. To me he personifies everything about Vince McMahon's vision of Pro Wrestling that I hate. Even within the confines of Vince McMahon's announcing production, I'd take Tom Phillips or Vic Joseph any day of the week.  The only play-by-play guy I hate more than Michael Cole is Mauro Ranallo, and that's just due to Mauro's constant idiotic pop culture references and the constant screaming.  And when it comes to screaming, sometimes Cole gives Ranallo a run for his money.

I totally get that, bubba. Cole was responsible for some horrible calls and his heel run is historically ill-received, it's undeniable he's had some rough moments in his career. But I feel that much like other play by play commentators nowadays, most of his faults are more a sign of micromanagement squeezing personality out of people, than the people themselves being bad (Ranallo is the exception to this: he's himself, but he just sucks). 

When he's not being tormented, he's actually a knowledgeable dude who can provide worthwhile input and genuinely make exciting calls. Don't think that removing him from the equation altogether would necessarily improve WWE commentary, too.

[The Thread Killer]

1 minute ago, KawadaSmile said:

When he's not being tormented, he's actually a knowledgeable dude who can provide worthwhile input and genuinely make exciting calls.

I do agree that his work during the UK tournament was excellent.  To be honest, prior to that I'd never thought he was even capable of that. I didn't think he had the skill.  Which in a way, almost makes his usual performances more maddening - he could be great, he just usually isn't.  I guess my big complaint is that Cole seems to embrace Vince McMahon's version of what makes a good play-by-play man with a bit too much gusto.

[KawadaSmile]

Could be. I mean, dude's been around for an eternity, will be around for like more 10 to 15 years, so if anything dude's THE perfect McMahonistic version of the role he's in, which in a way deserves some merit. Although it is a shame he isn't able to show more of his range, that I agree.

[C.S.]

22 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Could be. I mean, dude's been around for an eternity, will be around for like more 10 to 15 years, so if anything dude's THE perfect McMahonistic version of the role he's in, which in a way deserves some merit. Although it is a shame he isn't able to show more of his range, that I agree.

I doubt he will be around another 10-15 years. He has expressed a desire to transition to a backstage role.

IMO, Todd Phillips is being groomed to take his place - or maybe Renee Young, since the "Women's Evolution" is in full swing and all of that.

[NotJayTabb]

Tom Phillips and Vic Joseph are comfortably the best play by play guys in the company because they just quietly and competently get on with it. They also give the colour commentary room to breathe- it's notable how much better Nigel is when paired with Vic than with the aural anthrax that is Mauro Ranallo.

[Stiva]

Regal getting that big talent scout role was a blessing and a curse considering it meant we lost his great NXT commentary.

[El-P]

This week I learned the world cuckholding thanks to Maria Kanellis an Paul Heyman. Yep, you learn everyday.

BTW, Maria Kanellis = Das Worker, better than Kevin Nash is term of knowing how to get money and when to do it. Mike is gonne get Meroed the fuck out on TV I guess, but as long as everything is fine at home, they probably won the game anyway.

[clintthecrippler]

17 hours ago, The Thread Killer said:

I agree that even if he did agree to be split off from The New Day, WWE "creative" would probably screw it up because hey...they pretty much screw everything up lately.  I just don't get a guy with all the physical gifts that Big E has limiting himself like that.  But it could very well be that he thinks he's better off being comfortable in the New Day than having creative botch a potential singles run and hurt his potential long term viability.

I think it's also possible that given the amount of merch The New Day sells that the royalty checks are big enough for someone like Big E. to say "let's ride this out until the merch checks stop."

As far as the Shelton Benjamin thing goes, someone on Twitter pointed out that his facial expressions looked like those of a baby looking around at the room around him and now I cant get out of my head that this was the launch of a "baby Shelton Benjamin" gimmick. 

[TheDuke]

I don't see New Day can't be less of a tag team and more of a stable of single wrestlers. Big E could have his own feuds and storylines and promos but still wear the gear and still team with or have group promos with the other members on tv a couple of times a month. Especially if the Brand Split is over and they are on both shows now.

[DMJ]

^ Absolutely. I also interpreted Big E (and Xavier and Kofi's) comments about not wanting to be split up a little differently. I think what they mean is that, in wrestling, you have guys turning on each other all the time - its pretty much the end of every tag team or stable - but they want to be one of the exceptions. I don't think any of them are particularly against stronger singles pushes, just, if the way to get there for Big E is for him to turn on Kofi and become a generic heel and do a jealousy angle, he'd rather continue to play a role he enjoys and that has yielded him the biggest success of his career. 

 

On a separate note, anybody else read about Fox wanting Trump to be on SD? I'm not sure if it was just clickbait or its coming from a reliable source or whatever. I'm also not super up-to-date on who is in charge of Fox Broadcasting vs. Fox News Corp. vs. Fox Sports in regards to the political motive. I always assumed Vince wanted Trump to appear again while he was President or running for office (I was genuinely surprised he wasn't at any of the past 3 Manias), but that someone, somehow, convinced him that having The Donald around would be more trouble than it was worth. I'm also not certain Trump would even do such an appearance - though, I guess they could entice him with the promise of Big Macs and some sort of golden shower show?

The McMahon/Trump friendship is too well known for this to be controversial or to inspire fans to boycott or anything like that, but I still think the optics would be negative for both sides. Trump appearing on a "rasslin' show" is just more fodder that points to him being "low class" and the WWE, as a company, going "all in" and basically endorsing Trump is going to put their talent in a really awkward social media/Twitter position of having to defend "grab em' by the pussy" (I wonder what The Man thinks of that), border detention centers, refusing to pay respect to John McCain, calling Mexico a "shithole country", friendship with Putin, continued attacks on Obama and his citizenship, etc. Aside from Vince, I'm guessing Lars Sullivan is one of the few guys backstage who would want to have his picture taken next to Trump right now. (Not to say there aren't other Trumpsters backstage, just that being affiliated with the guy is undeniably a divisive move when you're a celebrity/athlete - easier to just say out of it, which is what the WWE should do.)

[sek69]

Dave already said the Trump on SD stuff was false. Probably created by someone who thinks Fox Broadcasting is the same as Fox News.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

22 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

Man this crowd was on fire for the Heavy Machinery win. Great news!

The folks are getting it, brother.

[NintendoLogic]

From the latest Observer:

Quote

It’s no secret that WWE audience declines have been terrible with those under the age of 30,and whatever stability the audiences have are because the over-50 audience has stayed more steady. The problem is, the aging audience isn’t being replenished. Once person who is involved with the company noted to us months ago, that in the real world, you never meet anyone who is a fan today that wasn’t a fan in the attitude era. The basic idea is that for two decades, very few new fans are being made, and the business is being carried by the 24 year olds in 1999 who are now 44. And even worse, because the median viewer age, which actually was as low as 23 during the Attitude era, was 54 last year and is probably older than that now given the huge declines over the last year in the younger age group.

This got me thinking about John Cena's impact. He drew in a ton of mostly younger fans, but he drove away a lot of older fans in the process. It seems that the fans he drew in didn't end up sticking around while the ones he drove away never came back. He could very well end up with a legacy like the NWO: turning business around in the short term but hurting the company over the long run.

[SirEdger]

Nice analysis. That's always a big issue for any big promotion at some point: creating that new buzz, that new star without doing it at the expense of a specific part of your fanbase. Sure, Cena has been a poster boy for WWE for more than 15 years now and for years, the diehard fans have felt pretty much left out in the cold because it was all about targeting that younger audience in hopes that they'll eventually stick around. I think that to an extent, Roman Reigns could be put in that category (although one could argue that since his return from his leukemia diagnosis, the reception for Roman has been universally better received than prior to that).

I was reading that one of Paul Heyman's main projects for RAW was to push Ricochet to draw the teenage viewers that could be enticed by the AEW product because of the similar wrestlers they have under contract. While I'm 1000% for that, I think it's sad that WWE had to wait until the emergence of a possible new national threat to them to react and take the steps they've embarked into in the past couple of weeks.

[Jmare007]

2 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

From the latest Observer:

This got me thinking about John Cena's impact. He drew in a ton of mostly younger fans, but he drove away a lot of older fans in the process. It seems that the fans he drew in didn't end up sticking around while the ones he drove away never came back. He could very well end up with a legacy like the NWO: turning business around in the short term but hurting the company over the long run.

It makes sense though, as the young fans that were brought by Cena grew older they got at best, a very mediocre product year after year (at worst, unwatchable stuff for any non hardcore fan). The young fans of the Attitude Era got a product that resonated with them and stuck with them until today, it's not surprise that the "PG Era" (or whatever we might call it) wasn't able to do the same. The legendary moments and angles that make a fan a lifer were very few during Cena's run - not because of him, of course -, and the few that happened were killed in quick fashion by horrible booking.