tomk Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Austin, Rock, Taker, Batista, and Cena all had good sucess against HHH as a heel. Benoit as well, to a lesser extent. I don't buy the idea that programs with HHH did a ton to help Austin, Rock, or Undertaker. Should be pointed out that HHH came out stronger in the programs with both Austin and Rock: http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/profiles/t/triple-h.php http://wrestlingclassics.com/cgi-bin/.ubbc...=1;t=075147;p=2 I'm surprised you didn't also list Hogan who HHH also ran a program with. Don't buy it with Cena. Don't buy that they did much to help Benoit. The HHH v Batista program did do a lot to help Batista. HHH is always a shitty heel to be programed against (with one exception). Batista would be the one exception. And well the reason Batista program worked is that he really was never programmed to work opposite HHH. The Batista as member of Triple Threat who turns on Shane Douglas format meant that Batista never had to work an inring match against HHH before the mania match. They built matchup for three months without Batista ever being stuck in role of having to work in a match opposite HHH. No tags no nothing. Batista wins every confrontation. Wins mania match. Works no in ring stuff opposite HHH until next PPV (May 1) where Batista also wins cleanly. HHH says he will take his ball and go home and let Batista's title reign fail on own. On the June 20th Raw they run an impromptu HHH/Angle v HBK/Batista tag where HHH pins Batista (Batista triple teamed with HBK making the save leading to impromptu tag). Batista then cleanly wins the Hell in Cell PPV and then Batista gets out of dodge (switches brands). Batista did have really good success working opposite HHH. But that program was different from every other program HHH has been involved with. Depending on where you want to say that feud started Batista worked something between a five and 8 month feud with HHH, where Batista only was stuck in ring opposite HHH 4 times. With the exception of that one Raw tag match Batista outsmarted and out wrestled HHH in every confrontation. The most effective way to have a face get over in a program with HHH is to have the face not spend a lot of inring time in programs opposite HHH= HHH is a shitty heel to be programed against . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Of course it didn't help Taker or Austin. They were already mega-superstars during their feuds with HHH. However, the Rock's feud with Foley did little to launch him into superstardom, but his feud with HHH clearly helped the Rock reach the heavens. And what I was saying was they had sucess against HHH, meaning win-loss ratio. Guys like Kane/Jericho/Booker/Flair/Orton and even HBK himself took their turns being HHH's job boy. However, the guys I listed have won a considerably amount of their encounters with HHH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomk Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Should be pointed out that HHH came out stronger in the programs with both Austin and Rock: http://www.obsessedwithwrestling.com/profiles/t/triple-h.php http://wrestlingclassics.com/cgi-bin/.ubbc...=1;t=075147;p=2 Go check the links. HHH won the majority of the matches against Rock and won the blow-off. No one thought Rock (top face at time) came out of that feud looking like a winner/looking stronger than when he entered program. And what I was saying was they had sucess against HHH, meaning win-loss ratio. However, the guys I listed have won a considerably amount of their encounters with HHH. Obessed with wrestling exists. You can figure out exact won-loss ratios. Of course how one wins/looses is also important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Tom - people should start on the first page of the thread: Feuds that heels won Starts with the 6th post in the thread. The stuff on the second page is a continuation. The feud with Rock remains jaw dropping. I tend to point to the turning point of the company as being the Triangle Angle where Kurt was fucked over because Trip wasn't willing to work a storyline where he was the cuckolded heel. But in reality, the seeds were getting sown with the feud with Rock. Bangs had become such a power by that point, and Rock such a laid back face who wouldn't put a stop to it, that they were able to convince Vince to do something that I don't recall Vince ever doing before - heel takes Mania and the blowoff of a feud with the Franchise Face. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 10, 2007 Report Share Posted September 10, 2007 Of course it didn't help Taker or Austin. They were already mega-superstars during their feuds with HHH. However, the Rock's feud with Foley did little to launch him into superstardom, but his feud with HHH clearly helped the Rock reach the heavens. Um... no. His feud with Foley made Rock a superstar enough to do record business with Austin at Mania in 1999. He then turned face after finishing the feud so that the company had two monster faces in Austin and Rock. The feuds with babyfaces McMahon, Foley and Rock made *Trip*, not the other way around. Go back and check out some of the stuff from late 1999 when the belt was first put on Trip. He wasn't that over. It's why Vince panicked and took the belt off him and gave it to Show. Then the stealing of Steph, the mini-feud with Vince started him getting heat. Then the feud with Foley elevated him. Then the feud with Rock "made" him. Despite that, Rock-Austin did better business in *both* 1999 and 2001 than Rock was able to do opposite Trip in 2000. The degree to which Trip was over, and "carried" the company, has always been overplayed. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Yeah that HHH made the Rock is one of the most ass backwards comments ever. HHH was not over at all until the Foley program. I found the most hilarious part of the WWE Championship History DVD was they totally exposed HHH as not being over for his early title wins. And really HHH has never been able to stay over. He has brief periods of with long periods of apathy towards him. If you ask me HHH has been the most counter-productive force ever seen in the WWE. He's ruined so many faces and heels it's not even funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Reading the latest WON and finding out the details of Nick Dinsmore's release, am I wrong for picturing Nick being led out of the arena in his Superman PJs ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 So what are the details? Was it drugs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 I cannot wait until Vince McMahon is put in his place by congress. It'll be so bittersweet to see Vince McMahon get pushed around and have his world shaken to it's foundation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 So what are the details? Was it drugs? He tested positive for painkillers and his prescription had expired. It was a repeat offense and he was already in rehab once, so they cut ties. He showed up to the 9/1 show in Cincy, was told he was let go, and then escorted out of the arena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Also Mike Bucci/Nova/Simon Dean was fired for encouraging young wrestlers looking to get hired by WWE to do steroids (among other things that pissed off backstage people). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Also Mike Bucci/Nova/Simon Dean was fired for encouraging young wrestlers looking to get hired by WWE to do steroids (among other things that pissed off backstage people). Well, in fairness, he did invent steroids. You can't blame a guy for trying to push his stuff on potential customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Also Mike Bucci/Nova/Simon Dean was fired for encouraging young wrestlers looking to get hired by WWE to do steroids (among other things that pissed off backstage people). Well, in fairness, he did invent steroids. You can't blame a guy for trying to push his stuff on potential customers. Kind of makes you wonder if the whole Simon System gimmick was some elaborate rib on WWE's part. Like the 00's version of Python Powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Need company in the Louisville or SoCal area? (Link is surprisingly work-safe) Shelly Martinez Description Stats: 5-4, 118 pounds, 34DD-24-36 Location: on the road from Louisville to Orange County, CA Specialities: submission wretling & kickboxing Contact Info E-mail: [email protected] Additional Information Shelly says: "I am "clean" and professional. I have an athletic background and have been doing pro wrestling for seven years. I also do kickboxing and submission wrestling." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Dave sez.... Enrique Torres, the oldest of the famous Torres Brothers, passed away this morning. He was 85 and had been ill for some time. Torres was living in Calgary at the time of his death. He was one of the biggest stars in wrestling when it debuted on television as the world champion recognized on TV from California from 1946-1950. One thing Dave forgets to mention is that Torres was the oldest living former world champion. I believe that claim now belongs to Edouard Carpentier, though I could be mistaken. Also interesting that Torres joins Karloff Lagarde as a lesser known (but still very strong) WON HOF candidate who has died since this year's ballot was released. Hans Schmidt best be watching his back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Geez, that makes Carpentier 58 when he had a cup of coffee with the WWF in '84 and was still doing all of his cool gymnastic spots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 I wouldn't mind having Shelly Martinez keep me company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Geez, that makes Carpentier 58 when he had a cup of coffee with the WWF in '84 and was still doing all of his cool gymnastic spots.What was the story there? The only Carpentier matches I can find on Cawthon's site are spots as WWF traveled through Quebec once a year. Fabulous Moolah was already 61 years old when she dropped the title to Wendi Richter live on MTV. Of course, she didn't quite have Carpentier's in-ring ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 WWF @ Brantford, Ontario - June 1985 All-Star Wrestling taping: 6/15/85 - included B. Brian Blair as a guest of the Body Shop: Paul Orndorff pinned Mike Moore at 4:04 with the piledriver WWF Tag Team Champions the Iron Sheik & Nikolai Volkoff (w/ Freddie Blassie) defeated SD Jones & Gary Starr at 2:17 when Starr submitted to Sheik's Camel Clutch Ricky Steamboat pinned AJ Petruzzi at 2:53 with the crossbody off the top Big John Studd (w/ Bobby Heenan) defeated Brain Mackney via submission with the backbreaker at 2:45 Edouard Carpentier pinned the Black Demon at 3:37 following several somersault splashes Brutus Beefcake (w/ Johnny V) pinned Jim Powers at 4:32 with a running kneelift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Yeah, I caught the result. It just seems apparent that when WWF would tour Canada, occasionally they would bring in Carpentier to run a match. It didn't look to be a full time gig. This sort of thing wasn't uncommon in the WWF until about 1987. In 1986, the company brought in the Crush Girls along with Dump Matsumoto and Bull Nakano for a few shows (never against each other). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 11, 2007 Report Share Posted September 11, 2007 Need company in the Louisville or SoCal area? (Link is surprisingly work-safe) Shelly Martinez Description Stats: 5-4, 118 pounds, 34DD-24-36 Location: on the road from Louisville to Orange County, CA Specialities: submission wretling & kickboxing Contact Info E-mail: [email protected] Additional Information Shelly says: "I am "clean" and professional. I have an athletic background and have been doing pro wrestling for seven years. I also do kickboxing and submission wrestling." I could see Lano making the trip down from NoCal for some of that. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 After suffering a serious eye injury twenty days ago, Bryan Danielson is scheduled to face Morishima again at the upcoming Pay Per View taping, on September 15th. I seriously doubt twenty two days is quite long enough to recooperate from such a devistating eye injury that caused blindness and the abilty to not control one's eye. Fucking ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 It would almost make sense if it was a WWE PPV, where a payoff could make someone consider wagering an eye, but he's doing to for a PPV designed to garner more DVD sales. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 He's probably watched 300 far too many times by now. King Leonidas: Dilios, I trust that "scratch" hasn't made you useless. Dilios: Hardly, my lord, it's just an eye. The gods saw fit to grace me with a spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted September 13, 2007 Report Share Posted September 13, 2007 Danielson is an idiot, to be sure, but he has made his own bed here by refusing to sign with a wrestling company that will compensate him better. By continuing to work indies, he opens himself up to situations where if he isn't wrestling, he isn't getting paid, thus putting himself in greater danger of getting seriously hurt. You would think that the separated shoulder and separated eyeball would put this shitty business in perspective and get him off the "OMG PRO WRES ARTISTE~" gimmick he seems to be running and realize it's time to get paid, but...well, he's an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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