Bix Posted November 24, 2009 Report Share Posted November 24, 2009 John Muse allegedly being the exception. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 Dave took another shot at Andre the Giant today in his update with another "No one in the business liked him" jab. Anytime anyone says something positive about Andre (this case Bill Simmons) Dave has to step right in and say "Well that's not really true.." I'm not saying that he isn't accurate but it still irks me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 I didn't read that as a shot at all, just the simple statement that no way is Andre the second most beloved athlete of the last 40 years. What other type of shots has Dave taken against Andre? Maybe I'm forgetting something, but it seems like Dave just corrects people when it comes to exaggerations about Andre like his height and such things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indikator Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 Interviews with Dave Barbie and Tim White and whoever else handled Andre would probably not shed a good light on him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herodes Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 From what I've read and heard about Andre, he was a billigerent alcoholic who was miserable from being in constant crippling pain, knowing he would die young, and treated like a freak by promoters and fans. So it's perfectly understable for Dave to say he wasn't the most popular guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted November 26, 2009 Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 By wrestling standards, he was a pretty nice guy then! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 26, 2009 Author Report Share Posted November 26, 2009 It's probably bullshit, but the story of Andre flipping over the car of people who were hassling him at a bar is one of my favorite parts of rasslin' mythology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 I think you would get different versions of Andre based on who you asked. 1970s wrestlers would've seen Andre not only healthier, but only a few times a year as he toured from territory to territory. You get a guy who does crazy shit a few times a year, you remember that fondly. Mid '80s his health was deteriorating and he was only in one place (WWF). The wrestlers who saw him months on end probably would not have good impressions of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 It's probably bullshit, but the story of Andre flipping over the car of people who were hassling him at a bar is one of my favorite parts of rasslin' mythology. I'm not entirely convinced the car flipping story is bullshit, or at least not total bullshit in terms of being impossible. Not that he could pick it up and just flip it like he was Godzilla, but I think it might still be possible. I only say that because with my local CFL team this year, they did this little comedy video with one of our offensive linemen that they run before every game as part of the pregame nonsense, and the guy is something like 6'7", 340 (or so... it's a lot) pounds. "Patrick Kabongo, Community Lineman", and he runs around doing sort of a "friendly Bob Sapp is getting ripped off but no one here will know it" bit with this local commedian where he runs around pretending to beat up the comedian as a guy that behaves as "that annoying fan" in the area around the stadium etc, and one of his things is shaking the hell out of this car with the guy inside, and I get the impression that if he really, really wanted to, he could probably flip the car if he rocked it enough, and if you bet him enough money (or a steak dinner). So I think it's theoretically possible to do, though whether Andre did it or not... well, who cares, it makes a cool story either way. But I don't think the story of Andre possibly flipping over a car would crack my personal top 100 of "least believable things wrestlers say happened". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHawk Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 I've seen people who dealt with Andre through most of his career say that Andre was nice in the beginning, but as the years went on he got meaner and/or more miserable. It could have been the pain, it might have been the fame going to his head. I personally think it was a combination of the two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Andre got miserable toward the last part of his life fpr the reasons that have been mentionned. I remember watching a documentary about him (I don't think it was a WWE produced feature), in which his closest friends (including Tim White) told the story about him being in constant unbearable pain and being treated like a freak made him a miserable wreck in the end. At that point Andre was only happy when he was on his ranch with his close friends who treated him like any human being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 If it was the A&E Biography, WWE didn't produce it (though they cooperated), but they were the ones who ended up releasing it on VHS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted November 27, 2009 Report Share Posted November 27, 2009 Having not read the article in question, is this "most beloved by fellow athletes" or "most beloved by fans", or somewhere in between? I'm not sure he should be #2 in either case, but it's important context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Becky Bayless also had a backstage WWE tryout (God that sounds so bad written that way) before the Smackdown tapings in Philadelphia.Gee, I wonder what Dave meant there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted December 3, 2009 Report Share Posted December 3, 2009 Becky Bayless also had a backstage WWE tryout (God that sounds so bad written that way) before the Smackdown tapings in Philadelphia.Gee, I wonder what Dave meant there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkeats Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 I would LOVE to see someone from the Meltzer/Keller crowd get the chance to book a wrestling promotion after boasting for years about how they could do it better than the people who do it for a living, have to manage egos, negotiate offce politics, et cetera Yeah, and we would love to see Roger Ebert direct movies and music critics produce albums.... Being a reviewer does not mean they think they could do it better. Ebert did write a screenplay, for Beyond the Valley of the Dolls. He readily admits that it was awful. EDIT: SLL already mentioned it. I missed that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 This is a topic for another discussion, but Ebert has never admitted such a thing and he looks back fondly on his time with Russ Meyer. I remember reading a Dusan Makavejev (who thinks Russ Meyer's a genius) interview where he mentioned how he once spent an eventing with Roger Ebert and Russ Meyer, and how wonderful it was just to spend the entire night listening to Meyer and Ebert talk about their work. Considering the genre he was working in, which was the Russ Meyer sex comedy niche/social satire/parodies of Hollywood cliches, it was a very clever and apt screenplay, and Ebert successfully went on to write two more Meyer films with Up and Beneath the Valley of the Ultra-Vixens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahoos Leg Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 My point was it's not as easy as the dot-com know it alls make it out to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkeats Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 **post deleted** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 I'm not sure I buy the idea that "just because you couldn't do it means your critique doesn't have value" as a generalization. In the world of pro sports, the vast majority of successful coaches sucked as players. That doesn't mean they aren't qualified for the role of coach. In fact it's somewhat rare that top athletes become highly effective as coaches. I don't think being a critic of (insert chosen entertainment genre here) is a wildly different train of thought from that. Not saying that to defend any one specific statement or anything, and not saying I always agree with stuff I see Dave or whoever say. I just don't particularly follow the train of thought that says "you can't do it yourself so keep your mouth shut". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wahoos Leg Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Death From Above... I'm a journalist, so that's not what I'm saying. I've certainly never played college football (thank God, I probably would've been killed) but I write about it every single day for 9 months out of the year. I understand those who can't do still can have knowledge and certainly right to criticize. An educated or well-versed observer certainly can identify what works, and what sucks. However, I don't think the wrestling the Meltzers of the world enjoy represents what Joe Wrestlingfan wants to see. You have to know your audience, and be able to present what they want to see. Not sure the dot-com guys would be capable of doing that for a promotion that caters to the masses. The smarks would dig it, but that's a very small percentage of the audience. The same criticisms also could be made of current big-league promotions, given the significant dropoff in viewership of the former and the significant portion of the wrestling fan audience that seemingly disappeared when WCW went away. I'm probably rambling now, so I'll just stop here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 I would agree with that, pretty much. I think everyone more or less agrees there are times where ideas the WWE runs with are because "Vince thought it was funny" or whatever, and then you have to hope enough of those stick to the wall that it works. But if "Vince thought it was funny" you pretty much have to at least give it a go. I'd also agree that there are times when the sheet writers seem to really lose sight of what the casual audience wants to see, which is really where all the cash is at the end of the day. But they also don't write for the casual audience, so I find it somewhat excuseable, though I don't disagree with what you're saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jkeats Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 I'm definitely in the camp against "just because you couldn't do it means your critique doesn't have value". As DfA mentioned, it's not very common for a top star to become a great coach. It's usually the guys who are in the background that see the most and really study and understand the game/business. The tricky part is when the critiques come in from people who don't have a total understanding of what they're talking about or have a very narrow-minded view of how things have to be. I think that's where the knee jerk "what do you know, you've never done it" reactions come from. I see the same thing in the TV and movie business. People often give advice or tell me how things need to be fixed but don't have the total understanding of how it's really put together or are just coming from a place of "I think it would be cool to do this." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 Lead story in this week's WON is the Kameda-Naito World Boxing Council flyweight championship match. I've always been supportive of MMA coverage, and back in the day defended it against the first wave of folks who thought Dave shouldn't cover it. Despite my distaste for the MMA=Wrestling themes, I still support Dave cover it. Boxing... John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted December 4, 2009 Report Share Posted December 4, 2009 John, go back and listen to Dave talk about this on the Wednesday show. He calls the Kameda's the Japanese Von Erich's and how this is total pro wrestling psychology. He basically said this was all angle driven and what not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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