AEW Dynamite- Dec 18, 2019

[SirEdger]

43 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

A big problem with AEW is that they seem to think the Elite are much bigger stars then they really are. So instead of trying to get Omega and the Bucks over to a larger audience, they're using them to try to get other acts over. This is a case where I think the promotion would benefit from the top stars being more selfish.

In this case, I think the Elite are in a Catch-22; here they are, using their name and recognition to put other acts over and build them as credible threats. But if The Elite guys have gold around their waist, then people will remind others that they're management and EVPs of the promotion so they'll be criticized again. For me, I don't question the post-main event segment itself as much as it is the placement. This is something that I would've put at the top of the 2nd hour rather than the main event. They could've finished with either Jericho vs Jungle Boy (finishing with Jericho reacknowledging the invite to Mox to join The Inner Circle on New Year's Day would've been the perfect cliffhanger) or they could've finished with Britt Baker vs Kris Statlander. Even if we question the Nightmare Collective, the visual of Brandi stabbing Statlander in the eye with the heel of her shoe would've been enough drama, knowing that Statlander wrestles Riho on New Year's Day to make you question the result of that match.

For me, the final moments of the show last night isn't necessarily about The Dark Order beating up The Elite as much as it is where was Hangman Page through the whole thing. Perhaps, it's gonna end up with Page being recruited by Dark Order and being a big gun or something. But as much as I root for The Dark Order, I wanna see someone of significance by their side to validate their cause.

[PeteF3]

I think people including the Elite themselves are overstating how much backlash there would be to Omega and the Bucks being pushed as top guys. People turned on HHH and Jarrett pushing themselves to the top because it was HHH and Jeff Jarrett. People actually want to see Omega and the Elite in main events.

[War is Raw]

In their defense, if the Elite burned through the roster of obscure indie wrestlers from jump street, they would have no new stars. Feeding unknowns to The Elite doesn't really get them over, does it? And feeding them Jericho, Mox, and PAC would have killed all three signings. I didn't mind the Lucha Bros vs Young Bucks feud because it carried the early PPVs and treated them as equals.

So they made the decision to sacrifice themselves at the beginning to help no-names like Darby Allin, Jungle Boy, Private Party, and as from last night- Dark Order- and to boost up acts like SCU, PnP, MJF, etc.

So, yes, it is Catch 22. There is no way to know how things may have turned out.

I am fairly sure if Hogan, Nash, and Hall formed their own league, Hogan and Nash would have went over everyone, and Hall would have been the designed jobber but still keep his heat based on character and mic work. It would have started off hot, but then they would have run out of opponents and tuned on each other before getting cancelled.

[War is Raw]

10 hours ago, MoS said:

Russo being on Jericho's podcast is not a good sign.

Listening to WOR, Meltzer also hated the post-match angle and said it was straight out of bad WCW booking. He said yesterday night felt like a turning point in the war, with NXT gaining momentum and AEW losing it. That might be over-the-top, but seriously, who is clamouring for a Dark Order main event angle against all the stars in the company? I don't think even the few people who like the Dark Order want them featured in such a prominent storyline. I get showing faith in your booking and your acts, but come on. The Elite being beaten up by a bunch of jobbers was a legit turn-off. 

Yeah, it will be awkward for Meltz when he hangs out with them on Jericho's cruise. "Tipping point" to me meant he said AEW has jumped the shark- all because of the last 5 minutes of the show. Wow.

Anyway, when Mox had the time limit draw with PAC on Dynamite (and half of the internet went crazy) AEW was conditioning us for a future draw angle, gave us a red herring for Cody vs Jericho, and showed us that a draw is the only time AEW will have a non-finish.

In a similar vein, Alex and John's push conditions us that wrestlers we see in squash matches can be something special. It's all inclusive. We've even seen AEW sign one-shot women invitees to contracts. He cares about the talent- no one is just a body. It's mind-blowing. Who would have bet when PnP squashed The Beaver Boys (literally no offense or hype- simply local talent jabronies) that they would beat up the Elite in the main event of the last show and segment of the year?  He has no fear to take the short term "L" from the ratings or fanbase criticism because he has 100% confidence with his 1-2 year long term booking. If this was the famous Total Extreme Wrestling game, putting jobbers in the post-main event would automatically get the lowest rating, but Tony does not care. Just trying to explain Kahn's booking theory! Never seen it before.

[MoS]

I think the reaction and the ratings show that in the present world, it is impossible for a completely new promotion to get off the ground and sustain interest for a long period just by being "good". AEW has made mistakes but I have still enjoyed every AEW show so far. They get things right far more than they get things wrong. And if we were to analyse any promotion's booking, even in their hot periods, I am sure we would find stupid things there as well. 

But in today's age, a new promotion or any new product really, can't be just "good" because there is so much "good" content out there. I am also putting good in quotes because while I find many of today's most hyped shows to be overrated, the fact is we are told again and again that we live in a golden age where never before has so much good content been available so easily. And to a large extent, it is true. WWE can get away with mediocre content because at this point they are a worldwide institution. AEW don't just need good angles; they need really hot angles to even sustain interest.

[El-P]

There's probably also something to be said about current society of social media and echo chambers and such good shit that makes everything über polarized, you have to be on one side or another and there's no middle or common ground, everything is either the greatest thing ever and legendary and such (billion likes, luv emoticons galore and constant self-validation) or the worst thing ever (the early reactions to the Librarians was batshit insane to me). People have no patience, people have no tolerance (which is ironic in a society which constantly reaches for tolerance as a value, but only tolerance for people who think the same as you because if that's not the case, then you feelings are hurt and the world has to apologize to *you*).

Yeah, of course there is gonna be bad stuff on AEW TV. There already has been. So what ? They are a pro-wrestling company, of course you're gonna get bad stuff too. WWE is at an all time worst in term or booking per talent ration (never had so much talent, never booked as poorly), yet every time there's something that is questionable on AEW TV, or someone who doesn't get over (guess what, people not getting over happen all the time, everywhere), people act like it's the end of the world, like changes have to be made NOW, like the company is all of a sudden doomed. It's crazy. 

[Laz]

Using your defense about the Beaver Boys, @War is Raw, it would have been fine for the Ewoks to kill the Emperor and for Legolas to do the job so that Tom Bombadil could get over. In other words, shit writing.

It's one thing to throw a curveball or a swerve. It's another to take acts that are clearly killing the shows and push them even harder. This has halved the audience in the past 3 months and led to the deaths of companies with greater histories and prestige than AEW has. I don't want the show to suck, so I call out bad booking.

[War is Raw]

45 minutes ago, Laz said:

Using your defense about the Beaver Boys, @War is Raw, it would have been fine for the Ewoks to kill the Emperor and for Legolas to do the job so that Tom Bombadil could get over. In other words, shit writing.

It's one thing to throw a curveball or a swerve. It's another to take acts that are clearly killing the shows and push them even harder. This has halved the audience in the past 3 months and led to the deaths of companies with greater histories and prestige than AEW has. I don't want the show to suck, so I call out bad booking.

My "defense" was an attempt to understand why Kahn would put jobbers over the Elite, and I did not recommend him doing so. Kahn is neither insane nor stupid and it was the only thing I could come up with. So you can chill with your Ewoks analogy to attack my No Prize. Anyway, last I checked the Ewoks went over the Empire and pissed off the hardcore fans but wound up getting their own TV special and sold tons of merch to kiddies.

[War is Raw]

Adam Page & Kenny Omega vs. Lucha Bros started with 689,000  

End of Adam Page & Kenny Omega vs. Lucha Bros/ PAC post match gained 2,000

 

Cody & Darby Allin vs. The Butcher & The Blade gained 11,000 

Awesome Kong with Brandi vs. Miranda Alize/JR interview with Jungle Boy lost 57,000

Chris Jericho vs. Jungle Boy gained 135,000 

Tony Schiavone interviews Jericho/Jen Decker interviews SCU/Lucha Bros cameo lost 113,000

Kris Statlander vs. Britt Baker/post match Brandi lost 29,000

Young Bucks vs. SCU/post match Dark Order lost 3,000 to finish with 645,000 
 

[Laz]

Weird. The stuff that fans have been outwardly saying needs to be cut is losing viewers. 

[Stiva]

A genuine issue with Dynamite is with how quickly they blasted through Cody/Jericho. Those segments were hot and carrying the show and without it, we're just left with heel stables recruiting people and a lot of guys treading water. Not to mention, it seemed like we were heading for Inner Circle vs. The Elite and that seems to have been shunted on the back burner. I wonder how much they're hoping to get through to the new year so the rankings can reset and they can start pushing people on unbeaten streaks and such (Hager should really be working squashes to build to an eventual turn on Jericho) but it really needs someone like Brodie Lee coming in and lighting things up. Not to mention Moxley having something to sink his teeth into. At first, I dug guys rotating in and out but it's time to start knitting everything together again; one of the coolest parts of the first few weeks was everything bleeding into everything else but now, it's becoming oddly compartmentalised. Has Dustin Rhodes even went after Hager for breaking his arm? Nyla Rose shows up once every 3 weeks for a squash and then is barely mentioned again. Darby Allin and MJF should be on the show every week since both guys have more than enough in them to not get burned out. It's definitely lost something but you can see where it would be easy to pick it back up again. I still say they need Clash of the Champions style specials in between PPVs to keep their focus; their best shows have been when they've had specific matches in mind to build to.

[War is Raw]

Yeah, it appears Cody + Friends vs Inner Circle in The Match Beyond is way off now or completely dropped, but was the hottest angle the company ran.

So ironic that for years we complained that monthly PPVs killed creativity and logical storytelling, and now AEW is finding the quarterly gaps a challenge. It shouldn't be. Paul Orndorff vs Hulk Hogan was a "gap" feud between Wrestlemanias 2 and 3! Same with Piper's turn. Greg Gagne said one hot angle a year carried AWA in its prime. Three months in between PPVs should not be an issue.

MJF's MLW contract is holding him back as well, which is why BBB was his proxy.

[C.S.]

Review of this week's show from a first time viewer:

https://alleverythingentertainment.com/aew-dynamite-12-18-2019-review-by-a-first-time-viewer/

Ouch!

[Alucard]

the setup for Elite v. Inner Circle in the Match Beyond was so perfect. With Cody even throwing the mention out in his classic promo before Full Gear. I really hope they find their way back to that.

[KawadaSmile]

Dunno if this was mentioned elsewhere but the Young Bucks quit twitter due to the negativity.

Would support them if not for the fact they made money inciting fans to be assholes towards other wrestlers, as well as being overall trolls. Fuck 'em.

 

EDIT: Also, on the point of what AEW needs to stay hot and the state of media in our current world, I'd say it's not just the polarization, like @El-P said, but also information comes and goes way too fucking fast. Things happen in a pace that most of us either can't humanly keep track, or just don't give a damn. 

It's not different for wrestling and sports in general. It's really hard to keep up with what happens in one promotion during a calendar year, let alone when you are also enjoying other things. You tend to neglect something at one point or the other.

[SirEdger]

BTW, the Creeper responsible for the now infamous sloppy punches GIF on Dynamite is Arik Cannon. He came forward and owned up to it, saying that Dustin Rhodes was bleeding and he was trying to protect him.

[C.S.]

1 hour ago, SirEdger said:

BTW, the Creeper responsible for the now infamous sloppy punches GIF on Dynamite is Arik Cannon. He came forward and owned up to it, saying that Dustin Rhodes was bleeding and he was trying to protect him.

Pretty sure he was joking.

[Slasher]

Dustin didn't seem to think so.

[Blehschmidt]

On 12/20/2019 at 10:20 PM, C.S. said:

Review of this week's show from a first time viewer:

https://alleverythingentertainment.com/aew-dynamite-12-18-2019-review-by-a-first-time-viewer/

Ouch!

For a "first time viewer" he seems to know a whole hell of a lot about what's going on.

How does he know Riho isn't believable when she wasn't on the show? How does he know all Kenny Omega matches go over 15 minutes?

This strikes me as someone burying the product for the sake of burying the product. Not that he doesn't make some valid points, but "first time viewer" my ass.

[Coffey]

A "first time viewer" talking about them "holding back" Britt Baker because she lost the one match he watched? OK..

[Slasher]

1 hour ago, Blehschmidt said:

Not that he doesn't make some valid points, but "first time viewer" my ass.

He made valid points? Like what? I thought he was either off base or nit picking on just about every thing he said.

[El-P]

Well, if I can say anything about AEW after this first "year", is that they need to work on follow-up hot stuff. And as much as I said before that there was time to focus on Omega and the Bucks in the future, I am feeling that they have indeed done damage to themselves, especially the Bucks, by losing too much at this point.

The Dark Order angle was nowhere near as catastrophic as I heard it was. Not good either though, I was fine with them as a mid-card act. The focus on Inner Circle vs Elite was super promising, they should focus on that again. No MJF at all ? Was it because of MLW tapings again ? Ok, so now I can also say that Britt Baker doesn't work for me right now. She just isn't compelling on any level to me (I guess I'm late to the party but I wanted to give her some time). Needs more work. Not a fan at all of doing backstage stuff like the search for Nakazawa, that was WWE level bad. Watch IMPACT, that's how you do stuff.

Statlander doing the Alien poke to Schiavone cracked me up. Just like his interaction with Jericho. Tony is great.

Really enjoying Butcher & Blade & Bunny work/presentation/everything. 

The Jericho vs Jungle Boy match was clearly the highlight of the show. Tremendous stuff.

So yeah, what AEW needs is more focus in the booking. Also, let's not get into more WWE-like stuff, I was perfectly happy with zero backstage segment.

[Blehschmidt]

9 hours ago, Slasher said:

He made valid points? Like what? I thought he was either off base or nit picking on just about every thing he said.

 

I can agree that the 3 man commentary booth is unneeded (though his description of Excalibur is ridiculous) and I do find myself agreeing that Kenny Omega does a whole lot of unnecessary gesturing and pointing to the point of being distracting at times.

Other than that, I agree with you on the nitpicking.

I still particularly like that in the main part of the article he acts like he doesn't know who Riho is. Then at the end says she isn't believable as champion.

[TheDuke]

2 hours ago, El-P said:

Not a fan at all of doing backstage stuff like the search for Nakazawa, that was WWE level bad. Watch IMPACT, that's how you do stuff.

 

I really liked the way Lucha Underground did their backstage stuff, where it was produced more like a dramatic tv series and less like a live show. Of course that would involve taping that stuff in a studio somewhere beforehand and playing the tape during the show, but I think it would be better.

[C.S.]

13 hours ago, Blehschmidt said:

For a "first time viewer" he seems to know a whole hell of a lot about what's going on.

How does he know Riho isn't believable when she wasn't on the show? How does he know all Kenny Omega matches go over 15 minutes?

This strikes me as someone burying the product for the sake of burying the product. Not that he doesn't make some valid points, but "first time viewer" my ass.

It could possibly be a "stunt" article, but the impression I got it while reading it is that he's familiar with the majority of the AEW roster from seeing them in other organizations (NJPW, Impact, etc.) or reading about them (which isn't the same thing).