Is the empire crumbling before our eyes?

[MoS]

19 minutes ago, FMKK said:

I don't think Shane ever had a run as bad as the Authority stuff from 2013-2016 where HHH and Stephanie would bury babyfaces and heels alike on the microphone every week and never get comeuppance. That was demoralising to watch as a fan, whereas Shane can at least be dumb fun if you don't think about it too deeply.

This I won't disagree with. Rewatching the 2000 stuff, I thought it was striking how much more ass Steph showed compared to Shane, but the Authority stuff was definitely awful. 

[FMKK]

35 minutes ago, War is Raw said:

NXT has always been an illusion, with contradictions. If we zoom out, it was always a reality bender (even leaving out the original reality-show game show prototype). I will stick to the present tense, although the past tense may be appropriate. 

-Many fans hate Vince and the bad programming on RAW/Smackdown, so embrace a short weekly show with excellent Takeovers, i.e. "real wrestling". In doing so, they forget they are still supporting The Evil Empire.

-Fans think it a draw based on Takeover attendance, but NXT just piggybacks the main PPVs. It is unable to draw on its own. Indie promotions can outdraw it.

-Old school fans love the "NWA"-feel, yet gloss over the lack of realism with selling and the offensive psychology of everyone aping Shawn Michaels' "every match must steal the show" mentality. 

-NXT is a subsided brand. Having the "zeitgeist" has never translated into ratings, tickets sold, merch, or anything financial. It was never fair to give HHH credit for NXT's "success".

-For the long time loyalists, things have changed as NXT has morphed into a league full of in-prime indie workers instead of a true development "league". Because of the Wednesday Night War, critics don't have much patience to see green workers learn on the job. 

In fairness, HHH's vision has always been different than Vince's, and Vince is the boss. That said, I do not trust HHH's creatively, business-wise (why should we?), or ethically. I wish people would stop repeating the meme of "When Vince dies, HHH will make WWE good again."

It's over for WWE creative on all of its brands. Been that way for some time. It's OK. We have many more options and archives. We don't get paid to fix their mistakes.

I think that the loss of the 'old-school' feeling is something they used to have that was lost over time as opposed to something that never existed. Hour long TV shows with squashes and green guys as well as a smattering of stars and big matches has become a two hour show with more talent than they have time for and hotshot title matches etc. to pop a rating that never comes. Same with the Takeovers. At the last Takeover, everyone was shooting for star ratings. But if you look at the early ones, you had Ascension and Baron Corbin squashes and comedy acts like the Vaudvillans and Enzo & Cass as well as the big Sami Zayn matches.

I wonder if this is connected to Dusty dying and them losing that older school connection or whether it was just because of them changing the business model to focus on killing off indy wrestling by making their own big budget version. Both probably.

[El-P]

1 minute ago, FMKK said:

I wonder if this is connected to Dusty dying and them losing that older school connection or whether it was just because of them changing the business model to focus on killing off indy wrestling by making their own big budget version. Both probably.

This.

[MoS]

Is Triple H still in charge of booking NXT, with his demotion? His newest title has him in charge of global development or something. I would also like to echo the sentiment about Ryan Ward. For someone who had a really good rep a couple of years back, I haven't heard anything about him. 

[Ricky Jackson]

It's so silly that there is an actual edict Reigns' name cannot be mentioned on TV, he's been removed from Make a Wish videos, etc. Next Vince will have him edited out of everything on the Network like he's a Russian general from the 1930s who Stalin had purged and removed from photographs 

[Stiva]

34 minutes ago, MoS said:

Is Triple H still in charge of booking NXT, with his demotion? His newest title has him in charge of global development or something. I would also like to echo the sentiment about Ryan Ward. For someone who had a really good rep a couple of years back, I haven't heard anything about him. 

I think he booked that hot Smackdown run right after the 2016 draft where he made do with a pretty ragtag bunch. I have no idea where he went after that but I presume he's working under Heyman?

[Coffey]

Stephanie McMahon has definitely done some on-screen things that I've enjoyed. The start of her feud with Brie where she got slapped was good. I loved her & Vickie feuding which led to them both going in the mud. I really liked the love triangle with HHH & Kurt Angle but wish it would have ended with her choosing Kurt over Hunter just because it would have made for better soap opera TV. I also liked how her feud with Trish Stratus got intertwined with the feud between Stone Cold & Triple H. When Austin came out & gave her the Stunner & Triple H was under a no contact order against Austin. That was good shit. 

The problem with Steph is the same problem that continues to plague everyone in WWE: overexposure. If you're fun, new & interesting or doing cool stuff it only has a short shelf life because you're going to be on TV like thirty times a month. And no one can stay fresh or interesting with how often they're around. We can see a bright new star show up & climb the ladder & win a midcard belt. But then they either stay in the midcard and win the IC belt like 40 times like Jericho, or they get moved up & do the same thing with the World Title like they did with the IC title, like Edge or Seth Rollins. Eventually everyone just becomes another face in the crowd.

Keith Lee was mentioned. He was on the main show & white hot. Now he's back in NXT doing weekly stuff & just won a belt. He's already lost a lot of his luster because WWE didn't capitalize on the moment when he was hot. He even had another moment to shine in the Rumble with Brock. They didn't capitalize then either. 

[Loss]

Going back to the original point, I think there's really something to the idea that the biggest challenge with keeping wrestlers around for a long time is not letting them get stale. The old NXT model was great for ensuring that would never happen because a long run in NXT was about a year. Now they've had the same headliners since 2017 or 2018 for the most part, and they haven't picked up anyone new in a while either. To the extent NXT was like the territories, that was how -- wrestlers in and out, never overstaying their welcome. Gargano and Ciampa are now still having a feud that got a proper blowoff in 2018.

[Coffey]

For as much as WWE is seemingly hellbent on having a brand split for their on-air product. Having a split for the actual roster, where they could give the talent rotating off seasons, would go a long way in keeping some guys fresh. One of my favorite things about wrestling is when a wrestler makes a comeback after being away for awhile. It always creates a big moment & makes a big pop. Plus then you can do more angles that write people off of TV right before their away time & you have something to work with when they return.

Just like the territories did by sending guys to a different territory. If would also give the talent much needed time off to see their families & to heal/recover. 

 

[Burgundy LaRue]

4 hours ago, Ricky Jackson said:

It's so silly that there is an actual edict Reigns' name cannot be mentioned on TV, he's been removed from Make a Wish videos, etc. Next Vince will have him edited out of everything on the Network like he's a Russian general from the 1930s who Stalin had purged and removed from photographs 

Roman will have a best of show right before WWE Backstage next week.

Do I think Vince is upset that Roman told him to get lost? For sure. But Vince also knows going after a two-time cancer survivor whose wife just had another set of twins during a pandemic would bring bad press. If anything, Vince quietly respects it.

[gordi]

2 hours ago, Coffey said:

For as much as WWE is seemingly hellbent on having a brand split for their on-air product. Having a split for the actual roster, where they could give the talent rotating off seasons, would go a long way in keeping some guys fresh. One of my favorite things about wrestling is when a wrestler makes a comeback after being away for awhile. It always creates a big moment & makes a big pop. Plus then you can do more angles that write people off of TV right before their away time & you have something to work with when they return.

Just like the territories did by sending guys to a different territory. If would also give the talent much needed time off to see their families & to heal/recover. 

 

This is a great idea. Totally agree. Hopefully if the rumours are true about Vince selling WWE the new owners might allow it. I remember Cody talking about AEW using a kind of rotating schedule. It makes a ton of sense. Keep the workers healthy, mentally and physically.

[rovert]

You can think whatever about Deonna Purrazzo's talent and potential. I acknowledge most of everything the author of this says and a lot of comments in the comment section. And obviously this comes from a self-interested wrestler's POV and for the entire history of Pro Wrestling wrestlers come and go, often are unhappy & some stints in a promotion simply don't work out. But still, Deonna in her interview Fightful and other outlets offer an honest insight into what NXT's culture is like in 2020. A lot of things are things fans have cottoned on to but it is the first time a wrestler has said them on record:

https://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe/2020/5/1/21244103/deonna-purrazzo-wwe-nxt-creative-issues-culture

She also says outright WWE only signed her to keep her away from All In and what would eventually become AEW.

[Alucard]

2016-2018 Shane O Mac was the best. It's no surprise that Smackdown turned to shit after he left.

[KawadaSmile]

On 4/28/2020 at 4:14 PM, El-P said:

Baron Corb... aww fuck.

Baron Corbin in the G1 would be dope

[sek69]

27 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Baron Corbin in the G1 would be dope

it actually would, since he'd either be forced to up his game or get eaten alive. I'd be down to watch either. Corbin seems like a guy who "gets" wrestling and would probably be more palatable in an environment not so micromanged.

[El-P]

Yeah. But no, thank you.  (seriously, there's probably a hundred guys I'd rather see in the G1)

[FMKK]

They've already got Bad Luck Fale and Yano do to the two-star night off matches

[NintendoLogic]

Some galaxy brain takes in this thread right now. Authority-era Stephanie is probably the worst character in history in terms of damage done to the product.

[KawadaSmile]

8 minutes ago, NintendoLogic said:

Some galaxy brain takes in this thread right now. Authority-era Stephanie is probably the worst character in history in terms of damage done to the product.

She invented feminism!

Also, remember when Becky, during her white-hot Wrestlemania build, had to say sorry to her and Triple H? And that was it?

[FMKK]

23 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

She invented feminism!

Also, remember when Becky, during her white-hot Wrestlemania build, had to say sorry to her and Triple H? And that was it?

Honestly, the start of Becky slowly losing her heat was the moment Stephanie became involved in that programme.

[MoS]

Yeah, Authority era-Steph was terrible. Becky recently revealed in an interview that Rock's agent now represents her and both Rock and Cena are giving her advice about movies. Given how Rock's contract situation was treated in 2005, no doubt he is telling her to get the fuck away from WWE and Steph/Hunter. 

[NintendoLogic]

Knowing WWE, they'll probably tell Seth to bash Becky in the media for turning her back on wrestling as a loyalty filter. Knowing Seth, he'll probably do it.

[Badlittlekitten]

As awful as Steph is, I'd be lying if I said I didn't smile when she appeared on the phone during that otherwise bad HHH anniversary segment. She's a great performer, probably the best they have these days. Which makes her all the more poisonous.

[Strummer]

Yeah It sounds like Becky already has one foot out the door. She apparently has a role in an upcoming Marvel film. I think she's only been on Raw once since Mania as well and they haven't been talkIng about her much on the show

[FMKK]

6 minutes ago, Strummer said:

Yeah It sounds like Becky already has one foot out the door. She apparently has a role in an upcoming Marvel film. I think she's only been on Raw once since Mania as well and they haven't been talkIng about her much on the show

An interesting wrinkle I heard today is that The Rock specifically requested to do the segment with her on Smackdown last October and then set her up with his agent afterwards. The fact that he has his own production company as well bodes well for her because if he sees her as a pet project, he can ensure she gets decent roles in films and shows he has a stake in.

I did see a couple of clips of her appearance in Billions. I know nothing about the show so I don't have much context but I thought it was a bit cringey.