El-P Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 28 minutes ago, Big Pete said: I think they touched on some interesting points but I don't think their analysis was as thorough as it could have been. Fans don't compare AEW's success to just minimize them, they compare it because AEW does it themselves. Whether it's comparing themselves to WCW or making references to the WWE on their television show they're inviting those discussions. They are in a wrestling war. If they don't retaliate, they get trampled. Of course, there's ways to do it, and for instance, the first Saraya promo was pretty much everything you should not do. The Max Caster's lines on the other hand, are great punchlines. But they are in a position where they can't just ignore the attacks. WWE put NXT right in front of Dynamite from day one (even before actually) to prevent them from even having a chance at existing by hurting their ratings and chances to get a new TV deal. Triple H made the "pissant company" comment. They can't play nice. The one interesting thing is that of all the people involved, it seems like Cody was the most vehement about going to the wrestling war, hence the throne breaking, whereas the Bucks & Omega were all about having an alternative wrestling promotion (it was confirmed in interviews when Cody left AEW). It's like Cody's frustration with WWE's handling of career fueled a desire to build an anti-WWE, all to get back home once he wasn't getting over like he imagined in his new venture. Never trust warmongers. 18 minutes ago, Dav'oh said: I don't know if I'd be running big or hot angles while "The greatest story told in decades" (passim) is getting all the eyeballs and plaudits, and WrestleMania season is in full swing. Maybe I pick my battles and wait for the post-Mania lull to run my big stuff? That's what I'm thinking too. Despite all the overreactions about the always impending doom of AEW if they don't get that million every week, it seems like TK is not that worry about it. There's no trickle down from WWE getting super hot (quite the opposite, it's actually bad for pro-wrestling overall). No need to hit the panic button. Stronger TV shows would help (and again, it's two weeks out of 52 for now), but maybe he figure he would cool things off and get whatever he gets from that PPV and that's perfectly fine (I mean, he can't ignore how weak the line-ups of these two weeks are, he's not an idiot). One thing the podcast is absolutely right about is that ridiculous constant fear of AEW disappearing if ratings go down for a few weeks or if a promo is bad or an angle doesn't work. It seems like some people are just in constant panic, this is indeed exhausting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 AEW was running a plain bad product from August to December and it had nothing to do with Wrestlemania or even WWE. There's a reason why the run of shows from December to January felt so refreshing, it was because fans were asking for something like that for months. 2022 was a mess after the Punk presser, to the point AEW lost a lot of the good faith people had in them. So of course the build up to a PPV looking as dryas this one -when they had 3 fucking months to come up with stuff- is gonna make people question stuff. So the idea that Tony is "saving stuff" for after Wrestlemania is not that convincing when he was supposedly saving stuff for most of 2022 too (we were asking for a reset in June and got it in December). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 4 minutes ago, El-P said: They are in a wrestling war. If they don't retaliate, they get trampled. Of course, there's ways to do it, and for instance, the first Saraya promo was pretty much everything you should not do. The Max Caster's lines on the other hand, are great punchlines. But they are in a position where they can't just ignore the attacks. WWE put NXT right in front of Dynamite from day one (even before actually) to prevent them from even having a chance at existing by hurting their ratings and chances to get a new TV deal. Triple H made the "pissant company" comment. They can't play nice. The one interesting thing is that of all the people involved, it seems like Cody was the most vehement about going to the wrestling war, hence the throne breaking, whereas the Bucks & Omega were all about having an alternative wrestling promotion (it was confirmed in interviews when Cody left AEW). It's like Cody's frustration with WWE's handling of career fueled a desire to build an anti-WWE, all to get back home once he wasn't getting over like he imagined in his new venture. They can't play nice but they also can't make absurd statements and not expect some backlash when they fail to live up to it. "This is bigger than The Outsiders coming into WCW!" Oh boy... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 minute ago, Big Pete said: "This is bigger than The Outsiders coming into WCW!" Wasn't that CM Punk's saying this at a media scrum ? Well, no further comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Pete Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 7 minutes ago, El-P said: Wasn't that CM Punk's saying this at a media scrum ? Well, no further comment. The funny thing was the quote sounded completely reasonable but then he couldn't help himself right at the end. But even Tony Khan can't help himself and makes these comparisons to 1997-98 WCW when really he should be focused on his product. If the discourse is going to change, Tony really needs to represent the company better than he currently is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 On 2/22/2023 at 5:08 PM, Dav'oh said: I do feel a lot of criticism isn't, "Tony isn't perfect, but no wrestling promoter ever has been perfect"; rather, "Tony isn't perfect, but he should be perfect." As mentioned, it took Watts and Dusty and Graham and Gedo and the gang years inside the business, to reach imperfection. As someone who criticises TK a lot, this is true. Everything AEW does is under a huge magnifying glass. If a similar approach was applied to other promotions, then 1996-1997 WCW and 1995-1996 ECW would also reveal a lot of mistakes. And yes, so will the Bloodline-Sami angle. For whatever reason, people just have very low expectations from WWE. Even Meltzer will soundly criticise AEW's faults but when it comes to WWE's flaws, he just shrugs and goes "Yeah well, that's what they are doing" or "Yeah, well, that's the direction they want". If Sami had lost similarly in AEW, you can bet your ass that there would have been 50 posts and about 50000 tweets proclaiming the death of AEW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 Also, giving Jericho a bigger backstage role is a mistake imo. Look at how inconsistent his career has been - he clearly is not someone who can consistently come up with good ideas/execution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 5 hours ago, Dav'oh said: I don't know if I'd be running big or hot angles while "The greatest story told in decades" (passim) is getting all the eyeballs and plaudits, and WrestleMania season is in full swing. Maybe I pick my battles and wait for the post-Mania lull to run my big stuff? How does a hot WWE storyline prevent people from paying attention to what's happening in AEW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 6 hours ago, Big Pete said: They feel this is because of three types of fans/influencers: They didn't mention the one that drives me the most crazy: the Devil's Advocate fan. If 4/5 people love a show, this person will hate it. If 4/5 people hate a show, this person will love it. They always have to go against the grain of whatever the popular opinion is. You see this shit online ALL the time, especially nowadays when everyone is trying to get clicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
strobogo Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 1 hour ago, Coffey said: They didn't mention the one that drives me the most crazy: the Devil's Advocate fan. If 4/5 people love a show, this person will hate it. If 4/5 people hate a show, this person will love it. They always have to go against the grain of whatever the popular opinion is. You see this shit online ALL the time, especially nowadays when everyone is trying to get clicks. We call that the Ewiak Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speaker-to-Animals Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 If anyone is banking on Khan getting help booking then they might be in for disappointment. This snippet kind of got lost in (and was caused by?) the Punk shenanigans: Quote "I have seen that the most successful way to run a wrestling promotion is to manage everything from the top down and not let people screw you. If you turn your back in this business, people will screw you at every turn, I've learned -- not just the people that work for you, but anyone from the outside if you show weakness," Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 22, 2023 Report Share Posted February 22, 2023 San Francisco continues to be a nightmare town for wrestling And this is much better than the last time WWE ran RAW and SD, btw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav'oh Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 5 hours ago, NintendoLogic said: How does a hot WWE storyline prevent people from paying attention to what's happening in AEW? Groucho Marx died the same day as Elvis Presley. Farah Fawcett died the same day as Michael Jackson. Aldous Huxley died the same day as JFK. Sometimes, you just can’t compete. No, the Bloodline saga doesn’t preclude the finite number of wrestling eyeballs from landing on AEW’s offerings. I’m just suggesting that it’s alright to take a backseat and let your own product simmer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 In fairness I’m sure dying then wasn’t Groucho’s idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 I'm kind of shocked no one really reacted to Cody just flat out saying what caused the rift between the EVPs in AEW is that he wanted to do Crockett and they wanted to do PWG.He said everyone are still friends and he just realized his vision was getting outvoted so he peaced out with no hard feelings. It seems like just getting a second viable national promotion up and running was his real goal, so not getting to book the way he wanted wasn't a major loss to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MoS Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 While I would much prefer Cody's JCP version, JCP faces did not exactly resist turning heels and cutting long rambling promos about it even when the fans were demanding it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 6 hours ago, Al said: In fairness I’m sure dying then wasn’t Groucho’s idea. More importantly, Dynamite is on a different day than Raw and Smackdown. The notion that people can't pay attention to a show that airs on Wednesday because of shows that air on Monday and Friday is ludicrous. Taking a backseat simply isn't an option when you're in the middle of a wrestling war and the enemy has infinitely more resources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dav'oh Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 2 hours ago, NintendoLogic said: ludicrous Plenty of consumers only have (x) minutes they can devote to wrestling, and would be more discerning when making their choices than us habitual omnivores. They're picking Sami/Bloodline and Wrestlemania season, I'd wager, and taking the kids to jousting practice on Wednesdays instead of mum, who's taking too many pills lately. 2 hours ago, NintendoLogic said: Taking a backseat simply isn't an option when you're in the middle of a wrestling war and the enemy has infinitely more resources. Military history is replete with strategic retreats which proved successful. If only I knew any... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 I dunno, bubba. I get what you are saying, but isn't it wiser to at least keep a viewership base level instead of just losing viewers? And again, they booked one of their few pay per views during Wrestlemania season. There is a clear conflict of ideas here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 16 hours ago, Dav'oh said: Aldous Huxley died the same day as JFK. As did C.S. Lewis. And L. Ron Hubbard died the day of the Challenger disaster, so it's not all bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 The only time competition is a legitimate excuse is when there's a direct conflict. Otherwise, the only limitation on the amount of time people can devote to watching (as opposed to spending money on) wrestling is the number of hours in a week. People will tune in to Dynamite if they're into the product. What happens on a wrestling show from a different company on a different day of the week has nothing to do with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 4 hours ago, Dav'oh said: Military history is replete with strategic retreats which proved successful. If only I knew any... I think Russia / the Soviets were quite successful with retreats, both against Napoleon in 1812 as well as against the Nazis in 1942. But yes, it's easy to retreat if you have 10.000+ km of Hinterlands... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jmare007 Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 5 hours ago, Dav'oh said: Military history is replete with strategic retreats which proved successful. If only I knew any... Lmao. So, uh, when does AEW take a stand to stop the enemy advance? When is it not "too late" for them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 On 2/23/2023 at 1:27 PM, Jmare007 said: Lmao. So, uh, when does AEW take a stand to stop the enemy advance? When is it not "too late" for them? General Tony Khan seems to think AEW is at war with WWE, as he mentioned in his interview with Dan Le Batard last week: "...I do know it's a real war between AEW and WWE, and the fans are interested in it. And that was part of the original business model of AEW was I knew wrestling fans, frankly, are very interested in wrestling free agency and wrestling wars..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flyin' Brian Posted February 23, 2023 Report Share Posted February 23, 2023 57 minutes ago, Jmare007 said: Lmao. So, uh, when does AEW take a stand to stop the enemy advance? When is it not "too late" for them? Depends on your definition of “too late”. AEW will continue on for as long as Tony Khan wants it to continue, even if it becomes an online only promotion on YouTube and Honor Club in the future. Who knows what the future of professional wrestling will look like if/when WWE is sold. If McMahon and family are no longer involved after that then it’s a whole new ballgame really. It’ll be interesting to see what happens if/when WWE completely becomes just a cog in a corporate machine instead of the primary focus of ownership. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.