Is the empire crumbling before our eyes?

[Phil Schneider]

Agreed, you do everything you can to defuse the situation before you start firing anyone.

[Timbo Slice]

There’s still an opportunity to do business here. But this part is what determines that. 

[Timbo Slice]

Keller doesn’t have anything at all. Tons of speculation. Unreal. 

[sek69]

It just seems like keeping Punk around is an untenable situation. I know he's a draw but the negatives around him are too much at this point. 

[Phil Schneider]

BTW I wrote this for the Ringer

https://www.theringer.com/2022/9/5/23338456/cm-punk-aew-all-out-2022-media-scrum-young-bucks-adam-page-explainer

 

My first top of the site piece

[Zoo Enthusiast]

48 minutes ago, C.S. said:

Yeah, @The Thread Killer and @KawadaSmile, I meant Fish.

I don't see a universe where Punk ends up back in WWE.

He won't. He already mocked it as a mark designation, and said when he was offered the title in the beginning, he turned it down for more money because there's only one boss.

The "EVP" thing has been way overstated.  It's not like they have some immense level of power.  They're not even middle management.  It's a designation without any power as a nod to them being there on the ground floor.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

4 minutes ago, Timbo Slice said:

Keller doesn’t have anything at all. Tons of speculation. Unreal. 

I would say SRS and Dave are the go-to's on this.

[Timbo Slice]

I don’t think either of them have much other than speculation. Because how they’ve reported on it so far has been haphazard. So maybe it does have to be Tony at this point. 

[The Thread Killer]

9 minutes ago, Zoo Enthusiast said:

I would say SRS and Dave are the go-to's on this.

I don’t trust Meltzer on this one. He’s friends with TK, Omega and The Bucks. I have no doubt that he would hold stuff back if they wanted him to, or even worse release information that has the spin they want on it. I am not one of those blind Meltzer haters, but I don’t think he can be totally objective on this story.

[KawadaSmile]

Hangman cannot walk away from this without repercussions. I now wonder if him having fuck all to do since losing the belt indicated something more...

[strobogo]

I hope it's all true because Punk completely imploding within a year over the exact type of shit he did when he was younger is hilarious to me. Just the idea that Punk sat at home for 3 months stewing over that Hangman promo like Punk himself hadn't done the exact same shit dozens of times in every damn company he ever worked for. Every feud Punk has had in the company has had his opponent saying something similar to what Hangman said to him. It's not like the Hangman promo was unusual other than he was a face saying it.

I find it pretty difficult to have sympathy for Punk in any situation, because he's an asshole everywhere he's been and gotten himself into these kind of situations. Dude just seems to be one of those that thrives on conflict and then takes no responsibility. I would fucking die if Punk got fired for shoot hitting one of the Young Bucks with a chair.

 

[sek69]

From what the rumors are saying, the heat on Punk is at nuclear levels and keeping him around could cause more problems than getting rid of him would. 

[C.S.]

28 minutes ago, The Thread Killer said:

I don’t trust Meltzer on this one. He’s friends with TK, Omega and The Bucks. I have no doubt that he would hold stuff back if they wanted him to, or even worse release information that has the spin they want on it. I am not one of those blind Meltzer haters, but I don’t think he can be totally objective on this story.

Big Daddy Dave:

 

[Embrodak]

Punk is an asshole, but that is very much a part of the reason I want him on my TV. He’s an asshole I can relate to, if only because his inability to let little shit go is like the opposite of me and I appreciate seeing someone who embodies an aspect of living I’ve so thoroughly repressed in myself. I’ve liked everything he’s done in AEW so far and am less likely to watch going forward if he’s gone. I understand it may be inevitable, but I’ll be sad to see him go.

[The Thread Killer]

That seems to be pretty much common sense, that none of those guys would be at TV tomorrow.

[sek69]

FWIW, while I believe Dave does tend to have a blind spot for sources he's been friends with for a while (hi Ric!), I do think that when push comes to shove he wouldn't knowingly publish news spun to one side. At least without acknowledging that it's spin. This is the guy who will steamroll Bryan on a podcast to correct some random factoid in the Observer no one could possibly care about one way or another, I don't see him knowingly report spin. 

[The Man in Blak]

Fire Punk, fire the EVPs, close AEW as a brand, change everything over to Ring of Honor, give MJF the strap and — most importantly — release AEW Fight Forever anyway so that the fans can smash their CM Punk and Elite action figures together in The Spiritual Successor to No Mercy (IGN.com)

[flyonthewall2983]

This has been very helpful in breaking down the mess for me, and expanding on context so thanks guys. For such an industry that reveres it’s own history and mythology, it seems the mistakes skipped over always seem to either regenerate into another problem, or gets ignored and comes back to bite them on the ass anyway. In those cracks to the armor, people are either left behind or prosper just enough until they take their ball and go home.

[strobogo]

I think getting rid of Punk would be the ideal solution, if someone is going to get fired. Ace, too, obviously. Punk seems to be the nucleus of a lot of drama with multiple groups of people and all the stuff about turbulence in the locker room really started coming out within a couple months of Punk arriving. I don't think Punk has really made much of a difference in DA RATINGS if that's the metric that is so important. They pretty much leveled off 3 weeks into his run and have mostly stayed the same weekly outside of a few extra hyped shows. I'm sure his merch is bringing in a ton of money, though. I don't think AEW needed him before and I don't think they need him now, but the arc of the story of Punk lasting exactly one year before blowing everything up is delightful.

 

One thing for sure is that no one respects Tony Khan. Could you imagine a WWE event like that with a talent repeatedly just straight up talking over Vince and talking about how fucking stupid and useless the other top talent is, and how Vince's booking is? Even Keith Lee/Swerve and Toni Storm cut him off and said some pretty out of pocket shit to/about him/other talent/the company and he just let it go. TK needs to hire a heater to crack down.

 

Eagerly awaiting the story 7 months from now that Punk and Ace have had a bad falling out.

[Jesse Ewiak]

2 minutes ago, strobogo said:

One thing for sure is that no one respects Tony Khan. Could you imagine a WWE event like that with a talent repeatedly just straight up talking over Vince and talking about how fucking stupid and useless the other top talent is, and how Vince's booking is? Even Keith Lee/Swerve and Toni Storm cut him off and said some pretty out of pocket shit to/about him/other talent/the company and he just let it go. TK needs to hire a heater to crack down.

I mean, at the end of the day, Vince was the boss, Tony is a money mark. 

[strobogo]

 It's just kind of wild to see the talent openly treating him like that in front of the "wrestling media". The only guy who seemed to have respect for him as a boss was Jericho of all people.

[DR Ackermann]

You can feel however you want about the situation, but it's inaccurate to say that Punk doesn't bring in higher ratings.

[DMJ]

I'm a bigger Punk fan than I am an Omega or Bucks fan, but it seems pretty obvious that Punk is the guy that needs to be let go.

I'm also curious about the merchandising. Yes, Punk probably rakes in a ton in merch sales for AEW...but we don't know what percentage of that is going to AEW and what percent goes to Punk. My uneducated, unsubstantiated guess is that Punk negotiated a deal that was more favorable to him than, say, what the Acclaimed or Darby Allin were able to negotiate. Hell, it may even be more favorable than what Omega and the Bucks have (which could be another reason that Punk has found himself on a bit of an island). Of course, even if it were a 50/50 split and the average AEW wrestler had an 80/20 deal, 50% of $1 million worth of CM Punk merch sold is more than 80% of $200k worth of Ricky Starks merch sold.

Still, AEW's ratings, fan engagement, and the critical reception were all trending up before CM Punk. CM Punk undoubtedly gave them a big shot in the arm upon his debut, but the company wasn't dying before him and won't die afterward. It may hit a rough patch, but you've still got a company *loaded* with talent. I know WWE has been re-attracting eyeballs recently, but the best talent under the age of 30 is still in AEW and its not even really close. 

As I wrote about elsewhere, I think what will get AEW to the next level in terms of drawing better ratings or doing bigger buyrates is not to look outward, but to really focus on giving everyone on the roster a meaningful, interesting direction - something that they've been inconsistent with in 2022. But the pieces are still there without CM Punk and, based on what we're hearing, it may even be easier to put them into place without the drama he brings. 

[strobogo]

16 minutes ago, DR Ackermann said:

You can feel however you want about the situation, but it's inaccurate to say that Punk doesn't bring in higher ratings.

I didn't say he didn't bring in higher ratings, I said they leveled off fairly quickly and overall the ratings from September 2021 to September 2022 are pretty close to what they were in 2020 and even 2019. There was a clear spike for 3-4 weeks of Punk's debut and then that spike leveled off to what they were doing in the months before Punk arrived. They had Punk/Cole/Bryan all debut at the same time and the viewership spiked but didn't really grow like everyone assumed it would.

I don't think AEW needs Punk. If I'm given an us or him situation between Bucks/Omega and Punk, I'm absolutely taking Kenny and the Bucks.

[Embrodak]

WWE has Austin Theory, Bron Breakker, and Solo Sikoa. AEW has MJF, Darby Allin, and Hook, and the Gunn Club. In terms of under-30s with a lot of potential, I’m not seeing a huge difference, unless we want to claim that there is a ton of talent on Dark and Elevation with big upsides.