AEW TV 10/5-10/7

[sek69]

24 minutes ago, El-P said:

I mean, if punching a guy is your ticket to actually get what you want, that's a pretty shitty signal to send.

Also this. Regardless of how you feel of Tony's management style, setting the precedent that you can just punch your way out of your contract is a horrible idea.  The only time I can think of anything close to something like that happening is when CMLL fired several members of the Brazo/Alvarado family for trashing Ultimo Guerrero's car in the Arena Mexico parking lot, and that was a pretty extreme situation. 

[NintendoLogic]

I'm envisioning Tony telling the locker room you can't just punch your problems away like Diddy on the Making the Band episode of Chappelle's Show.

[Matt D]

I'm looking forward to seeing FTR getting back in there with Toa. They had a really fun Elevation match last year:

 

[sek69]

I'm as pro Union and pro labor as you can get, but Andrade is absolutely the asshole here. Yes, Tony should offer full benefits to everyone, but at least AEW wrestlers are way closer to what real independent contractors than WWE wrestlers are. The moment we start seeing WWE contracted folks working AAA and New Japan shows then I will agree with "these two billionaires are the same".  They are clearly not, even if the better of the two still has room to do better. 

[C.S.]

23 hours ago, Matt D said:

Guys like Nese and Lethal are important so that every match isn’t one where neither guy can lose.

I've never agreed with this mindset. Nese and Lethal aren't over a lick. Therefore, beating them means absolutely zilch. Let's use Gangrel as an example: Massively over, but still someone who could lose and people would care. No one cares about anything Lethal and Nese are doing, ever. 

[sek69]

I suppose you could make the case that Lethal has some cache from being a long time upper card ROH guy, but Nese has never been presented as anything major. His best use would be more of a "competitive enhancement" level guy. 

[strobogo]

8 hours ago, Cien Caras said:

That’s basically it, although the facade is collapsing at an astonishing rate.

as I have said previously:

Remember to never side with a billionaire (or the son of one) over labor. The real change for a new company would have been full employee benefits including health insurance and a union. Instead it’s just another billionaire, same as the old one.

No excuse for the son of a billionaire to perpetuate the independent contractor farce and not to offer full benefits and enable unionization.

The worker in this situation is never an “asshole” and is likely massively underpaid relative to their worth. This is exactly the kind of situation where the worker can leverage their power to assert themselves especially in the absence of any legitimate employee rights.

Remember when Cody was banging the drum for a wrestling union, with everyone having benefits and healthcare, only to never mention it again once he was actually management? But he, his wife, and the other Elite guys did get benefits and healthcare as office? 

[Matt D]

25 minutes ago, C.S. said:

I've never agreed with this mindset. Nese and Lethal aren't over a lick. Therefore, beating them means absolutely zilch. Let's use Gangrel as an example: Massively over, but still someone who could lose and people would care. No one cares about anything Lethal and Nese are doing, ever. 

Just saying that Nese has one of my favorite AEW matches of the year in the Orange Cassidy Rampage one. The Swerve/Lee vs Nese/Woods was a bunch of fun too. But that's beside the point.

I disagree with you on the rest, but I'm not going to just repeat the same thing over and over again. I think there's value in a guy who can put on a competent tv match and lose, even if he's not super over. If he's super over, I don't WANT him to be losing all that often. "Wardlow's defended the TNT title five times" means slightly more than "Wardlow's defended the TNT title four times" and one of those times is Lethal. It wasn't a guy that they should be protecting like Hobbs.

[Timbo Slice]

Yeah, one of the issues AEW has from a talent perspective is that everyone was the best in their respective regions before they got there AND needs to protect themselves AND needs to work a 50/50 match because otherwise they’ll never get over. The Peak PWG conundrum where everybody got over because the thing that matters most was the in-ring work. Problem is that when you have so much talent, that’s not possible, and you have to play more to strengths than looking to do always competitive matches. 
 

I get why people don’t like Nemeth, for example, but he’s one of the few guys who does the example of a role I want: A dude of whom you always want to see get laid out. And he does it just fine. 

[Jimmy Redman]

I have less of an issue with the idea of the "JTTS with some vague name value" role in AEW (which you do need in AEW because they try to protect match ups and records) but I do have an issue with it being Jay Lethal. 

He sucks and it feels like he's featured having a long match on TV every bloody week. I FF when I hear his music. Its 2022, I never need to see another Jay Lethal match as long as I live.

There are like 700 guys sitting in catering every week and most of them are more interesting than Jay fucking Lethal in 2022. Use someone else. 

[Badlittlekitten]

100%

Skip every time his theme hits. Utterly boring.

[Matt D]

19 minutes ago, Jimmy Redman said:

I have less of an issue with the idea of the "JTTS with some vague name value" role in AEW (which you do need in AEW because they try to protect match ups and records) but I do have an issue with it being Jay Lethal. 

He sucks and it feels like he's featured having a long match on TV every bloody week. I FF when I hear his music. Its 2022, I never need to see another Jay Lethal match as long as I live.

There are like 700 guys sitting in catering every week and most of them are more interesting than Jay fucking Lethal in 2022. Use someone else. 

I’d much rather it be JD Drake.

[sek69]

AEW out here influencing how real sports handle personnel issues, judging by Draymond Green KTFO'ing a teammate at Warriors' practice.

[KawadaSmile]

Not just any teammate, but Jordan Poole, who:

• at the start of the playoffs was filling in for STEPHEN CURRY and dropping 30 points;
• is 24 years old, so a pretty young and hungry players;
• is aiming for a contract extension, much like Dray.

It's similar! The media did try to downplay what the fuck happened, tho.

[C.S.]

2 hours ago, Matt D said:

I think there's value in a guy who can put on a competent tv match and lose, even if he's not super over.

If someone's not over, they don't belong on television for the #2 largest North American wrestling company, period.

Tony Neese and Jay Lethal take up space and waste airtime that could and should be going to other folks - even if they lose.

Ryan Nemeth and JD Drake were both mentioned as examples in this thread. All I know is I'd much rather see them than The Sleeping Pill and The Sex Pest (Nese and Lethal).

[Matt D]

With all due respect to Tim, Nemeth’s current act really shouldn’t be on tv. I’m not saying he shouldn’t. I’m not saying the Wingmen in general shouldn’t, but the flossing and the trophy and the parody of his brother’s one-liners which are already a parody isn’t it. The current act shouldn’t be on Dark. 

[sek69]

8 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Not just any teammate, but Jordan Poole, who:

• at the start of the playoffs was filling in for STEPHEN CURRY and dropping 30 points;
• is 24 years old, so a pretty young and hungry players;
• is aiming for a contract extension, much like Dray.

It's similar! The media did try to downplay what the fuck happened, tho.

It wasn't even the usual "fighting but I don't really want to hit you" teammate fight either, he flat out slid the dude. 

[Timbo Slice]

I brought up Nemeth more as an example of the type of work that needs to be more a part of the product as opposed to the quality of his work. One thing that bothers me is that folks don’t understand roles are meant to be played as opposed to maximize their attempt at the house style, and I’d rather have guys who understand those roles than not. 
 

Nese and Lethal are guys that aren’t over but known entities. And known entities that you use specifically to put over guys you WANT to get over have merit and value. Good hands who know their roles mean more to wrestling than guys who can work a good 50/50 10-minute match but it’s all they can do. And AEW has way more of the latter than the former. 

[Matt D]

26 minutes ago, Timbo Slice said:

I brought up Nemeth more as an example of the type of work that needs to be more a part of the product as opposed to the quality of his work. One thing that bothers me is that folks don’t understand roles are meant to be played as opposed to maximize their attempt at the house style, and I’d rather have guys who understand those roles than not. 
 

Nese and Lethal are guys that aren’t over but known entities. And known entities that you use specifically to put over guys you WANT to get over have merit and value. Good hands who know their roles mean more to wrestling than guys who can work a good 50/50 10-minute match but it’s all they can do. And AEW has way more of the latter than the former. 

No, I agree with the general idea, and there are tiers of guys. I love watching Serpentico, one of my absolute favorite guys on the roster, but you can only use him to accomplish so much. I think some of the problem is that the heel roster is a bit limited.

If I said to everyone...

Ok, no more Lethal. Let's use QT in his place. Everyone would groan. If I said Comoroto, half of everyone would want him pushed and protected. No one would think Solo was credible in that spot. Ogogo is both not ready and SHOULD be protected.

The more I think about this, it probably makes sense for them to use tag guys in singles roles there. Butcher. Blade. Kassidy. Quen.  Drake. Henry. They do it sometimes too. They just did with Menard. They should do it a little more and have to rely on guys like Lethal a little less.

[Strummer]

AEW just announced Moxley has signed a 5 year contract extension with the company

[sek69]

Claudio is a goddamn beast

[sek69]

Jericho vs Danielson on Dynamite next week, but I refuse to recognize any Bryan ROH title match as legit without Final Countdown and fans beating the guardrail in time to the music. 

[Johnny Sorrow]

17 hours ago, Cien Caras said:

That’s basically it, although the facade is collapsing at an astonishing rate.

as I have said previously:

Remember to never side with a billionaire (or the son of one) over labor. The real change for a new company would have been full employee benefits including health insurance and a union. Instead it’s just another billionaire, same as the old one.

No excuse for the son of a billionaire to perpetuate the independent contractor farce and not to offer full benefits and enable unionization.

The worker in this situation is never an “asshole” and is likely massively underpaid relative to their worth. This is exactly the kind of situation where the worker can leverage their power to assert themselves especially in the absence of any legitimate employee rights.

Oh, Andrade is an asshole here, despite the fact that he should be allowed to quit and go to WWE if he's an " Independent Contractor". Everything else you said is spot on. They aren't mutually exclusive.  Khan letting guys work elsewhere as well isn't some revolutionary thing. WWF wrestlers used to be able to take Japan and Indy dates while McMahon was in charge and was the same rich piece of shit he was when he wouldn't let them. 
Letting workers do outside gigs is paltry shit. Give them health care. Make them employees. Shit, letting folks take outside dates also gives Khan credence to actually claim they're independent contractors. It's not as altruistic as it seems. 
Point being, fuck the rich. There are no good billionaires, even if they make a wrestling show you like and probably bought DVD sets from Goodhelmet Will.

[NintendoLogic]

This whole discussion is such disingenuous bullshit. The vast majority of anti-AEW dead-enders clearly don't give a shit about the rights of labor (at least as pertains to pro wrestling) and are just using whataboutism as a club to beat the company with. You know you're not listening to a serious person when you hear the claim that the executives should help their workers unionize, which the National Labor Relations Act explicitly prohibits.

[Flyin' Brian]

16 hours ago, Timbo Slice said:

Yeah, one of the issues AEW has from a talent perspective is that everyone was the best in their respective regions before they got there AND needs to protect themselves AND needs to work a 50/50 match because otherwise they’ll never get over.

When WWF went national in the 80's, they also took a lot of the best talent from their respective regions BECAUSE they were already over in a lot of cases. Not everyone could be the guy, but each person had a role to play and understood it. Even though they weren't on top they still got a chance to shine especially when WWF rolled into that area, at least in the era back before they started jobbing everyone out in their hometown. There needs to be a clear hierarchy of who is at what level and what their job is. Some are going to be on top, some are going to be upper midcard either on their way to being elevated to the top or to help the wrestlers that are on their way the top to get there, some are midcard that are over enough to be featured but not over enough or in a position because of age or ability to be on top, and your lower card people to be jobbers or get experience and maybe move up at some point. 

Not everyone can be the star, and not everyone can be at the same level. If Tony gets more tv time, especially in the form of a ROH show, I think things will sort out and not be as jumbled as they are now. At the moment though, AEW has two promotions worth of everything and are trying to fit them into one. That's not going to work.