AEW TV - 12/7 & 12/9 - Stuff and Things

[KawadaSmile]

3 hours ago, Champagne said:

I find MJF's whole act to be very contrived and it takes me out of almost every segment he's in.

To me, he's a guy who's always playing the role of a professional wrestling heel. Kinda like the Miz. 

He's good, even great at selling angles, but you just don't get that sincere asshole energy.

[El-P]

I never understood the Miz comparison with MJF. Like, at all. On any level whatsoever. They are nothing alike, in any way shape or form.

On the other hand, as I'm still going through my TNA watch, it's obvious that MJF is basically the best ECIII ever. There's a LOT of similarities. And really I find ECIII to be a fascinating case of "what if", especially now that I've reached his babyface turn in 2016 and see that he was just as efficient in this role. It's easy to make fun of him now because of the CYN stuff, but really, ECIII at his peak in TNA is a fascinating study because you see him as a guy you could/should have been a HUGE star in WWE, as he had *everything* they wanted at one point. MJF doesn't have the same kinda body, although he really worked on it, and he is an even better promo (and really, ECIII was a great promo guy, legit great, at least in TNA), but he's a better in-ring worker. Not to say ECIII wasn't good, as he was quite decent and worked quite hard too. But anyway, to me the ECIII (again, in TNA) and MJF comparison make a whole lot of sense. 

[Tenese Sarwieh]

This was a darn good Dynamite, banger matches, rapped up everything with Regal nicely and has me pumped for Final Battle.

 

I can see where others are coming from because at times MJF goes for the lowest hanging of fruit for heat and it seems forced. Now comparing him with the Miz is a huge no for me. Everything thing Miz does and say is manufactured on the typical WWE cookie cutter prototype. The only time I felt anything natural from him was the talking smack promo with Bryan, apple and oranges with these two.

[Timbo Slice]

Soooooo, Sasha will be at WK17 and now Saraya bringing her in next week might actually happen. 

[Jmare007]

Yeah, at first I thought Sasha being Saraya's mystery partner was just wishful thinking. I was under the impression that if she could've made the jump to AEW she would've already done it.

But her taking the WK booking and either having a match or showing up to build to a future match in Stardom opens up a number of possibilities. And showing up in AEW seems way more realistic....or maybe Nick Khan/HHH were able to strike a deal with NJ/Stardom like Vince wanted to do when trying to retain Danielson?

[strobogo]

IT'S SUPERVISOR TIME

 

What is Kesha Countinghouse doing in the Dark Zone?

[sek69]

It kind of got lost in all the Regal stuff, but TK stated Forbidden Door will be happening next year as well. Not super surprising considering it was by all accounts a pretty big success, but you never know when it comes to different companies working together. 

The only thing that sucks about it is that it will probably again keep anyone AAA adjacent off the show since NJPW and CMLL are still sharing talent and running shows together. 

[Embrodak]

11 hours ago, Champagne said:

I find MJF's whole act to be very contrived and it takes me out of almost every segment he's in.

He’s a rich Long Island douchebag, I’m not sure what is contrived about it. He’s a little tryhard with the edgy stuff sometimes, could stand to be a little more creative with how he crafts his insults (Corny said he really needs to get a thesaurus on the most recent pod, which I agree with), but at the same time, given how young he is, I’d say he feels like exactly how he presents himself.

[MoS]

I know some brothers here don't like him, but Mox really is the heart and soul of this promotion 

[KawadaSmile]

I don't even like him that much, but him being the man to carry this promotion on his back is pretty objective, I think - even if he was super checked out when he had to drop the belt to MJF.

[MoS]

31 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

I don't even like him that much, but him being the man to carry this promotion on his back is pretty objective, I think - even if he was super checked out when he had to drop the belt to MJF.

I thought that was an excellent match tbh, best of the night and for me, far better than the trios match - but then the latter was not worked in a style that I like. 

Can you blame him for being checked out though, the man was supposed to be on vacation early September, and he has had to keep working for reasons completely unrelated to his own self. 

[rovert]

21 hours ago, El-P said:

Yeah I know. But that makes her a tricky character to use. Obviously like I said before, as long as she's healthy and doesn't paralyse herself, it's all good. Let's not be stupid about working pro-wrestling matches.

Expect her to beat Jade for the TBS title in the Spring (probably at AEW Revolution).

Jade's 2023 will be very interesting in terms of displaying whether is in fact too good to be true/a flash in the pan.

[MLB]

Whereas @El-P doesn't see Miz in MJF, for me I fail to see Roddy Piper aside from the Burberry scarf/tartan kilt gimmick. I'd say Flair is much closer to MJF's persona and presentation. 

Also, I'm a bit surprised we seem to be no-selling Starks saying MJF is on the gas for his first title run.  

[Matt D]

• Miz/MJF: It's really the whole bit about Japan/indies/smart fans not mattering and that he's bigger than the notion of "pro wrestling." I think that's a pretty clear parallel. There are obviously other issues of class with MJF and the chip on his shoulder on an ethnic level that's different, the Long Island element, and also that MJF sees himself as a wrestler that can go in a way that's not built into the Miz's character. But there are definitely some superficial elements that are similar in the sort of "anti-smark" kind of way.
• MIz/Piper: This I don't see as much. The idea with Piper in his prime is that he could say/do anything and that there was always the energy of the unpredictable in a pretty static world of mid-80s wrestling. Whereas when MJF says something it's something shootier he's not supposed to say, like calling Starks the Pebble or whatever. Piper was more likely to reference Noriega and slam a bottle into his own head or something. He was more up on the news and worked in real cultural things. In that regard, I'd like him more to Max Caster than Max Friedman.
• Sasha: I think she wants closure vs Saraya given everything that's happened, and there's a match with Jade that's obvious, but my guess is that she wants to work Riho/Shida/Maki/Emi and Deeb/Athena(heel)/Bunny/Ford/Hayter/Storm/Ruby/Nyla, and even people at the Skye Blue/Anna/Tay/Ford/Abadon/Velvet/Shafir level. She pays attention to what's going on. This isn't like Rayne or Saraya coming in and not knowing the roster at all. She'll see the opportunities for interesting match ups.

[El-P]

MJF is a pure product of the indies though. One of the funny point of him saying he was gonna send Starks back in Corgan's NWA and wrestle on Youtube, is that himself was wrestling in Court Bauer's MLW on Youtube not too long before still (maybe even at the same time during his last MLW days where he was on both shows for a short while). First time I saw him was on one of Janela's promoted show, and he never came off like he was working some "anti-smark/indies" gimmick. 

[Champagne]

21 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

To me, he's a guy who's always playing the role of a professional wrestling heel. Kinda like the Miz. 

He's good, even great at selling angles, but you just don't get that sincere asshole energy.

13 hours ago, Embrodak said:

He’s a rich Long Island douchebag, I’m not sure what is contrived about it. He’s a little tryhard with the edgy stuff sometimes, could stand to be a little more creative with how he crafts his insults (Corny said he really needs to get a thesaurus on the most recent pod, which I agree with), but at the same time, given how young he is, I’d say he feels like exactly how he presents himself.

KawadaSmile's description summed up it pretty well. I'm always aware that MJF is a character played by Maxwell Friedman. To be fair, I wouldn't have an issue with this if MJF wasn't hailed by so many as being a generational talent; I just don't think he lives up to the hype, unfortunately.

[Matt D]

21 minutes ago, El-P said:

MJF is a pure product of the indies though. One of the funny point of him saying he was gonna send Starks back in Corgan's NWA and wrestle on Youtube, is that himself was wrestling in Court Bauer's MLW on Youtube not too long before still (maybe even at the same time during his last MLW days where he was on both shows for a short while). First time I saw him was on one of Janela's promoted show, and he never came off like he was working some "anti-smark/indies" gimmick. 

MJF is anti the fans and if the fans are pro-Japan or pro-Indies or pro-something he comes out as anti-it. What's the chicken there and what's the egg is up to you.

One more bullet.

• Re: Moxley. I really hope this is all building to him "snapping" and just becoming an unstoppable tweener monster that kills everyone and can't be held back and can't be stopped. Stop the Moxley is what i want for 2023 and where it seemed like things might have been heading a few months ago. Just a bloody creature of chaos.

[El-P]

6 minutes ago, Matt D said:

MJF is anti the fans and if the fans are pro-Japan or pro-Indies or pro-something he comes out as anti-it.

I dunno. I don't even get the anti-Japan or anti-indies stuff. What does that even means ? MJF comes from the indies. He doesn't come from a TV reality show or a corporate developmental program.

If by "Japan" or "indies", that means "lol movez" and is strictly a "stylistic disagreement" (which infact it is not, since it would be an idiotic generalization anyway), then it's something that only WWE drones and the likes of Corny audience says. I don't get how this relates to MJF at all, honestly. It's not like he's working like a cosplay of guys from the 80's/90's either. The fact he doesn't do a thousand dives doesn't make him less of a very contemporary worker. Not that Miz is doing it either though. Miz just work like a shitty mid 00's WWE dullard. 

[Matt D]

3 minutes ago, El-P said:

I dunno. I don't even get the anti-Japan or anti-indies stuff. What does that even means ? MJF comes from the indies. He doesn't come from a TV reality show or a corporate developmental program.

If by "Japan" or "indies", that means "lol movez" and is strictly a "stylistic disagreement" (which infact it is not, since it would be an idiotic generalization anyway), then it's something that only WWE drones and the likes of Corny audience says. I don't get how this relates to MJF at all, honestly. It's not like he's working like a cosplay of guys from the 80's/90's either. The fact he doesn't do a thousand dives doesn't make him less of a very contemporary worker. Not that Miz is doing it either though. Miz just work like a shitty mid 00's WWE dullard. 

“I am going to go to the highest bidder, could be anybody, as long as it’s not New Japan. F***ing hate New Japan. It’s literally, I don’t understand how people still pretend it’s a company that’s like, important. "

That's a quote. He does stuff like that all the time to rile the fans.

If AEW is anti-establishment, he's pro-establishment.

[El-P]

Just now, Matt D said:

“I am going to go to the highest bidder, could be anybody, as long as it’s not New Japan. F***ing hate New Japan. It’s literally, I don’t understand how people still pretend it’s a company that’s like, important. "

Totally forgot about that one !  But again though, I don't see how this relates to the Miz at all. Just kinda cheap heat like he insults the city he's in, really.

BTW

51 minutes ago, Matt D said:

• Sasha: I think she wants closure vs Saraya given everything that's happened, and there's a match with Jade that's obvious, but my guess is that she wants to work Riho/Shida/Maki/Emi and Deeb/Athena(heel)/Bunny/Ford/Hayter/Storm/Ruby/Nyla, and even people at the Skye Blue/Anna/Tay/Ford/Abadon/Velvet/Shafir level. 

damn, I wish you are right on that one too.

[El-P]

8 minutes ago, Matt D said:

If AEW is anti-establishment, he's pro-establishment.

Humm.... AEW is hardly anti-establishment. Maybe it appeared that way at first, because there was this enthousiasm and desire to change the landscape. AEW is now just another part of the establishment as the landscape has evolved. Which actually is one reason why the energy is not the same. 

One thing I wish MJF would stop doing, is positive references to WWE. That's very counter-productive, especially in the current context. The last thing you want is to point at the other company as being bigger and better than yours. Likewise insulting NJPW, it's just cheap heat, and toxic cheap heat in this case. The thing no one really knows is whether is actually has signed for an extension (which he would never say) or not. If not, then we're witnessing another Pillman sequence and it's not good for AEW.

[Dale Wolfe]

If Sasha goes AEW that's a hell of a catch. Surely the first future-proof star as opposed to the other jumps who have been around for a while

[KawadaSmile]

9 hours ago, MoS said:

Can you blame him for being checked out though, the man was supposed to be on vacation early September, and he has had to keep working for reasons completely unrelated to his own self. 

Oh, I don't hold that against him at all. He's probably going to get at least a couple more title reigns down the road. He's just that important for AEW.

[strobogo]

Fucking Darby, man. Do any of his co-workers say "nah man I don't want to do that to you". 

[El-P]

Takeshita is a total package. Now it would be nice if he won some. Because he's gonna get settled with "Great worker who can't win a big match" perception soon enough if that goes on. Great match though (spoiler alert : he lost).

Da Bunny. Yeah, that's what I want. Her and Penelope have so much potential as an act. Maybe they should ask to get more of what they did with Anna & Tay, but it's not like you wanna do that too often.

Big Bill, uh ? *sigh* Yeah, we need another tall heel guy doing chokeslams. Maybe put a Dinosaur mask on him and then we'll have the New Jurassik Powers. 

The Hobbs vignette are very good. Maybe they should think about doing that kind of stuff *before* someone debuts too. Like, there's too much of a feel of "catching up to the matchmaking" in stuff like Athena vs Martinez for instance. Maybe you can build it instead of throwing it from nowhere and then doing an express 60 sec video in which you're told "oh btw they met before in Shimmer, yeah it's actually meaningful bye".

Gotta, say, I'm thoroughly enjoying Orange defending the AP belt against random people. Wouldn't mind get a lot more of that Trent Seven fella either (as opposed to, Big Bill, you know).

Mascara Dorada vs Jeff Cobb at the pre-PPV free-show ? Wow, talk about out of nowhere. Could be awesome if given enough time.