Royal Rumble 2023 aka 30 years of pointing at sign as Mania main event booking

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Got burned out by the women’s Rumble and saved the main for this AM.  Some peak WWE content.  Special props to the nasty bumps KO takes on the steps.

[RingoPlaysDrums]

Post-match was an incredible segment. Everyone was just perfect in their roles. I haven't seen anything quite like that in wrestling for a very long time. 

I was thinking that Reigns/Cody & Usos/KO & Zayn was the way to go but I'm not sure it is now. I'm not sure where they go from here. Cody making his comeback and going for the belt his Dad never won is still a compelling story but it's nothing compared to what's going on with the Bloodline. Perhaps they could get the WWE belt onto Seth somehow and Cody can beat him instead. That'd work well with their history. But I don't think Cody/Reigns and KO & Zayn winning the tag belts is quite going to cut it.

Rest of the show: Some good, some bad, a fair bit in the middle. Bit disappointing in terms of surprises but the expectations are always so high for the Rumble. Great showings from Gunther & Ripley. 

[Zoo Enthusiast]

I think it won’t take long for people to be like “oh shit, they ended the Roman stuff for Cody fucking Rhodes LOL WWE.”

[Dale Wolfe]

I could see Sami/KO v Usos and Sami costing Roman the belt(s) against Cody, leading to Sami v Roman at Summerslam? 

The storyline has been such a long build it doesn't mean they have to have it culminate just yet, plus it lets Roman keep a bit of of his shine by not losing cleanly to Cody

Cody winning with a Dusty(ish) finish has a nice synergy to it anyway 

[Embrodak]

28 minutes ago, Zoo Enthusiast said:

I think it won’t take long for people to be like “oh shit, they ended the Roman stuff for Cody fucking Rhodes LOL WWE.”

I think Cody has a lot more good will than people are giving him credit for. That HIAC match was legendary.

 

Edit: Maybe do Sami/JEY versus Jimmy and Solo? That’s a fucking twist!

[Zoo Enthusiast]

13 minutes ago, Dale Wolfe said:

I could see Sami/KO v Usos and Sami costing Roman the belt(s) against Cody, leading to Sami v Roman at Summerslam? 

The storyline has been such a long build it doesn't mean they have to have it culminate just yet, plus it lets Roman keep a bit of of his shine by not losing cleanly to Cody

Cody winning with a Dusty(ish) finish has a nice synergy to it anyway 

Have tentative plans to go to Summerslam if it’s in Detroit so that would be great.

[El-P]

I have not red the thread yet. So there.

Well, WWE is such a losing proposition in term of pro-wrestling content overall. Sure, there was *this* angles at the end. But overall, this was by far the worst and most boring show I've seen in forever. It kinda reminds me how spoiled I actually am with what I'm getting on a weekly basis and with big shows from Japan and other matches here and there from Europe, indies of Mexico.

But first, some positives. Like I said, I haven't watched a WWE show since last year's Rumble. It seems, maybe it's just me being in a good mood, that the direction is quite a bit less epileptic than it was before. Also, the announcing is better, with less idiotic WWE tropes (also way too much still). Speaking of which, it's the first time I heard Pat McAfee. Meltz referred to him after Don West's passing, and I totally see the comparison. He's so fun and refreshing, making some boring stuff watchable simply because he's engaging and funny and enthousiastic in a non-fake way. He also namedropped Musashimaru for no reason. Love me some McAfee for sure. Also, and I hate to be that guy, but I did enjoy the non-ramped entrance. Very much an old-school (there, I said it) feel, which also was refreshing as hell.

I thought both Rumble worked in opposite ways. First part of the Men's Rumble I thought was fun enough, mostly carried by Gunther, Sheamus, Kofi (gotta love the "his feet is still on the chair" bullshit call which I thought was hilarious) and such. One thing about the Rumble, is that there's always this moment with the very first person that is gonna get no reaction whatsoever and you feel kinda bad for them. Poor Karrion Kross really. The silence was crushing, despite the push, the production, Scarlett (why wasn't she in the Rumble ???? They just won't let her do anything, what a waste). Totally peaked with Lesnar entering, then Lashley ejecting his ass. From there, I thought the match really kinda died until Edge showed up, then died again. I could not believe Cody would actually enter N°30. Think about this, the babyface won after entering last and eliminating the heel who lasted the entire thing. Talk about ass-backward booking in term of what it says about Cody. Also, despite the ending stretch being excellent, there was no doubt whatsoever in the result. I mean, come on. Also, we talked about how really the only interesting and fun thing in the Rumble was the surprises and returns, well we ain't got none for ya. Except Booker T aka the stupidest guy in the pro-wrestling landscape this side of Disco Inferno, who really is neither a surprise nor a return when he's announcing NXT. He looked like shit too. Also, let the whole "people are interested in giants" discussion die already. Omos got crickets. Braun kinda got the crowd excited for him to thrown his useless ass out for ten seconds, then silence was back on. And finally, his Austin Theory really slotted to be the future chosen one ? Because he's fucking mid as they come here. The one thing finally, is that Cody did not get that giant pop I expected. Not nearly as big as Lesnar, Edge or Rollins (or Becky and Asuka). Sure, he did get a big pop, but I expected much bigger. More on that later.

Women's Rumble was the opposite in that apart fro Rhea and Liv starting out, it was dead and boring for the whole 2/3 and really only picked up when Becky showed up. So many not over people. Dana Brooke still looks like a rookie who has one year of experience. Roxanne Perez on the other hand, killed it. Raquel came off like a future star possibly. Hey, that's Chelsea Green. Hopefully she gets paid way more than in IMPACT, because she sure was slotted as a complete joke already. Way to re-debut someone. Between her and Emma, well, those "return to my dream job, I have so much to accomplish" wishes just won't go nowhere fast. Think about this, Mickie James last, year, as IMPACT champion, was treated much better than those two were this year. And speaking of surprises and me dreading people I really care about showing up, I actually thought she could show up and holy fuck was I maniacally laughing when Nia Jax popped up. And it took her a minute or two to display her amazing ineptess, totally blowing up the most basic monster highspot in the world, that dumb fuck can't even take a fucking bodyslam right ! Still as shitty as ever. I'm so glad she won't show up anywhere I care about. Watch out for concussions girls though. And THAT was the big surprise return ? I can't think of any worse, really. What was good though was the ending stretch, as unlike the men's Rumble there actually was some doubts (well, some, not a lot) with a strong three ways of Asuka, Rhea and Liv. Michelle McCool going from the audience to the ring was kinda cool, although really, MAGATaker's wife, yuck. She's there every year now, not really a shocking or surprising thing either. Piper Niven getting back her identity was very cool. Finally she may have a decent run now.

Says a lot about that someone who is not watching the week-to-week product was able to guess both winners, without much doubts at all.

The mid-card was..... BAD.

Seriously, I felt bad for BeLair. Is that the same girl I watched killing it with Sasha Banks in a Mania main event a few years back ? She got crickets, the match wasn't very good at all, it was just there and basically a backdrop for a second LORE bullshit angle that really wasn't anything more than what you'd expect on a weekly TV show.

And OMG the Bray stuff was WrestleCrap gaLORE indeed. First, I find it hilarious that we were supposed to find scary a match that had SPONSORED BY MOUNTAIN DREW placated al over it. Kinda ruins the atmosphere. But it's not like the atmosphere was anything eerie either. I mean, the whole fluorescent light shit was hilarious because it has nothing evil or creepy about it. At all. It rather had the feeling of being in a nightclub in Dubaï with crypto-bros and shit-ass influencers (hey, Logan Paul was on the show, fuck him) with escort girls on their arms drinking flashy cocktails and listening to crappy EDM. Plus, the match was a totally random and dull WWE style garbage match, there as fuck. The post match was nothing short of Black Scorpion tier in term of amazingly dumb "scary movie" bullshit, complete with a hobo doing his worst Jeff Hardy cosplay while Bray "I swear I'm not doing the Fiend now, it's a completely different and deep character despite me wearing a mask and no-selling weapon shots" Wyatt was looking on firecrakers go off (and thankfully nothing caught fire this time). How in the hell anyone can defend this shit ? This is cinema ! Sure, maybe. Like, really really really shitty cinema that only used to be released on third rate straight-to-DVD editions.

The main event was what it was. Again, good, solid if you will, but honestly very unspectacular (apart from Kevin Owens doing his best "Darby Allin wants to break his neck on the stairs" spots) and unefficient work considering the match was just a backdrop for the post match and the issue was never ever in doubt. It's hard to build a match around throwing bombs and doing nearfalls galore when there's 0% chance any of them will actually led to a finish. 

The post match angle however, and really this was all about this, was AWESOME. And I say this as someone who again, don't watch the product apart from clips here and there, so I'm totally not invested in this. And still, I popped like crazy when Sami finally hit Roman with a chair. Just wonderfully done from everyone here. Finally got them some "Fuck Roman" chants (I mean, really, these people are complete trash apart from Jay). After seeing this, is there any doubt that OBVIOUSLY Sami Zayn is the one who should beat Roman Reigns in the end ? They are not giving this to Cody, right ? First, Sami is much more over as displayed tonight, plus really, this is the best angle they did in like at least 10 years, the build is awesome, Sami is over as fuck all. There's only one right conclusion to this, Sami beating Roman for the titles. Cody can win later. If they don't run with Sami NOW, then they still don't get it.

[Big Pete]

I thought the Men's Royal Rumble was sensibly booked. Over the years the match has gotten carried away with the surprise entrances and comedy stuff, it was refreshing to have a match filled with guys who actually matter as singles sticking it out. It was nice to see them advance some angles with Brock-Bobby, Rey-Dom, Edge-Judgment Day and Logan-Rollins. I thought it did a good job of showcasing the right talent and then peaking at the right time.

The match really hinged on Logan Paul & Cody and both guys absolutely delivered. Logan came up with the spot of the match with Ricochet and Cody had a tough job but ultimately his victory felt earned.

I thought they got out of dodge with that Mountain Dew match, but it still didn't make a lick of sense tone wise. For a match that was meant to showcase what Bray can do and why you don't want to piss him off, getting clubbed in the back and losing to a snap Sister Abigail wasn't the worst loss to take. Even the ending with Uncle Howdy felt off because instead of feeling concerned for LA, it was more about the spectacle of somebody taking a crazy dive.

Alexa-Bianca was just sort of there. Bianca came home strong and the KOD was impressive, but the match just didn't have any heat.

Women's Rumble relied on a few surprise returns and NXT call-ups but like the men's was sensibly booked. I thought Zoey Stark was really impressive with her flurry and from the time she hit the ring everything looked crisp, a really nice showing for her. Again, the right acts like Damage Ctrl, Raquel Rodriguez, Piper Niven and Rhea Ripley were spotlighted. Asuka looked the best she has in years and the finish was good too.

The biggest thing I noticed about Reigns-Owens is how much both guys milked every spot. It felt like they dragged out a 8 minute match with guys just trading high spot after high spot with some soap opera thrown in. It still delivered and Owens took some great bumps to really sell Reigns as the biggest threat in the company.

Post-match was great too and what really separated it from other angles was having Jey Uso walk out. It's always good when you can deliver a pay-off and create intrigue at the same time.

All in all, thought the show delivered as a spectacle and did it's job of setting up Wrestlemania.

[El-P]

10 minutes ago, Big Pete said:

Cody had a tough job but ultimately his victory felt earned.

He came in #30 and then had his ass beaten by a guy who was there since the beginning. Still won though. #Youdeserveit. Meanwhile, heel Rhea came in #1 and tangled with Liv who also came in #1 (or 2, but that's the same thing) at the end. Kayfabe wise, who REALLY earned a victory in the Rumble ? 

I still can't figure why they thought the sperm police light was a good idea for a "creepy" match. Really, is Uncle Howdy some kind of swinger's club owner now ?

[Flyin' Brian]

I think in this case it really hurts WWE to have both championships on Roman because they have two worthy storylines and they both have to have the same ending which is Roman getting beaten. Cody’s storyline doesn’t need Roman, so if someone else had the title it honestly wouldn’t matter. It’s Cody’s quest for the belt that his story is about. On the opposite side Sami’s story is all about Roman and the Bloodline. It doesn’t need the title but it has to have Roman. At the same time it would seem like a letdown somewhat if that match isn’t for the title because Roman is the champion. One of those two stories is going to suffer because of the other one. If they do Reigns vs Sami at Elimination Chamber that doesn’t really give it the stage it deserves. If you do it at Wrestlemania along with the Reigns vs Cody match who goes on night one and gets the first win over Roman? Probably Cody, but then you’ve got a weakened Roman going into the Sami match that doesn’t really give Sami the big win he deserves, and you’ve had Roman do the job on consecutive nights for both titles which seems a bit much and dilutes both. If it’s a Bloodline vs Sami and Owens Elimination Chamber match and Sami wins is that good enough? Then who would Sami face at Wrestlemania? I keep going over different scenarios in my mind and I’m not seeing a good one that gives both stories a fitting ending at Wrestlemania. 

[Big Pete]

19 minutes ago, El-P said:

He came in #30 and then had his ass beaten by a guy who was there since the beginning. Still won though. #Youdeserveit. Meanwhile, heel Rhea came in #1 and tangled with Liv who also came in #1 (or 2, but that's the same thing) at the end. Kayfabe wise, who REALLY earned a victory in the Rumble ? 

I still can't figure why they thought the sperm police light was a good idea for a "creepy" match. Really, is Uncle Howdy some kind of swinger's club owner now ?

It was a poisoned chalice for Cody, but they did a good job of making it a struggle and Cody having to take some risks to get rid of Gunther who was protected in defeat. It didn't feel like Cody won because Gunther choked or had the co-ordination of a drunk rhino, they went mano-e-mano and Cody coming in ahead of schedule clutched it out against one of the best.

I'd say the WWE have millions of reasons why.

[El-P]

17 minutes ago, Big Pete said:

It was a poisoned chalice for Cody, but they did a good job of making it a struggle and Cody having to take some risks to get rid of Gunther who was protected in defeat. It didn't feel like Cody won because Gunther choked or had the co-ordination of a drunk rhino, they went mano-e-mano and Cody coming in ahead of schedule clutched it out against one of the best.

who just faced 28 other guys for 45 minutes, while Cody got the lucky number and came off fresh as a daisy when the other guy was already exhausted and bleeding from the back.  

I mean, I'm joking because obviously it was really good in execution, and the short "match" they had was excellent (Hopefully Gunther gets a huge match at Mania, he sure deserves it), but if you think about it kayfabe-wise, it's really Cody Rhodes, the "grandson of a plumber" (but really the son of one of the biggest star in the busines and a rich kid with a name) getting the obvious favoritism treatment for WWE babyfaces (I mean, Hogan always came out in the latest spots too), while Rhea Ripley had to work her ass like crazy to win the match. It absolutely fits with Cody's meta character, which really is a carny mofo, always full of shit behind his charming smile and crocodile tears (he has nothing on Jarrett though), which makes it actually really funny.

Also, the "From dashing to Stardust to the road to WrestleMania main event" line totally cracked me up. Sure, he was Stardust, then vanished and came back as a big star for whatever reason.  

[Coffey]

Finished the show this morning. The ending angle was great. That pop that Sami got was awesome & I liked Jey being conflicted (again) & just leaving the scene. That's good shit, pal! 

If Wrestlemania was one night (like it should be) & there was only one world title (like it should be) which match is the match that the fans most want to see & gives the crowd the biggest feel good moment?

I feel like the answer to that is the payoff to Sami beating Roman in the Bloodline feud. Of course there's that whole "Sami can't go to Saudi Arabia & if he's the world champion those shows don't have a world champion" issue to deal with. Because, y'know, blood money.

I almost wish they wouldn't have announced Cody Rhodes' comeback ahead of time or had him in the Royal Rumble at all because this is going to really hurt him going forward, I feel. I think the crowd is going to turn on him. 

I think they did the right thing with the Owens/Reigns match going on last. I was wrong about that. Still feels weird that the men's Rumble went on first.

[Coffey]

23 minutes ago, El-P said:

who just faced 28 other guys for 45 minutes, while Cody got the lucky number and came off fresh as a daisy when the other guy was already exhausted and bleeding from the back.  

Also, I know it was an homage to his brother, but the Shattered Dreams is a very heel move. The #30 guy kicking the #1 guy in the balls to win. 

The crowd is going to turn him heel just like they did in AEW because he always comes off as pompous & extra. I mean, the entrance with all the pyro was ridiculous lmfao.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

8 minutes ago, Coffey said:

Also, I know it was an homage to his brother, but the Shattered Dreams is a very heel move. The #30 guy kicking the #1 guy in the balls to win. 

The crowd is going to turn him heel just like they did in AEW because he always comes off as pompous & extra. I mean, the entrance with all the pyro was ridiculous lmfao.

Yeah eventually he's a guy you realize you just don't like.  Unless he's in a really meaty story he gets tiresome fast, IMO.

[Tetsujin]

57 minutes ago, Flyin' Brian said:

I think in this case it really hurts WWE to have both championships on Roman because they have two worthy storylines and they both have to have the same ending which is Roman getting beaten. Cody’s storyline doesn’t need Roman, so if someone else had the title it honestly wouldn’t matter. It’s Cody’s quest for the belt that his story is about. On the opposite side Sami’s story is all about Roman and the Bloodline. It doesn’t need the title but it has to have Roman. At the same time it would seem like a letdown somewhat if that match isn’t for the title because Roman is the champion. One of those two stories is going to suffer because of the other one. If they do Reigns vs Sami at Elimination Chamber that doesn’t really give it the stage it deserves. If you do it at Wrestlemania along with the Reigns vs Cody match who goes on night one and gets the first win over Roman? Probably Cody, but then you’ve got a weakened Roman going into the Sami match that doesn’t really give Sami the big win he deserves, and you’ve had Roman do the job on consecutive nights for both titles which seems a bit much and dilutes both. If it’s a Bloodline vs Sami and Owens Elimination Chamber match and Sami wins is that good enough? Then who would Sami face at Wrestlemania? I keep going over different scenarios in my mind and I’m not seeing a good one that gives both stories a fitting ending at Wrestlemania. 

Have Cody lose to Roman at night 1 and then Roman/Sami from night 2 can be for both titles instead of just the UC as originally announced.

[strobogo]

Thought the men's Rumble was the best Rumble match in ages. Zero issue with any part of it except I think it would have been lol to keep Miz in much longer and just have everyone beat his ass extra for no real reason. I thought Gunther worked a Rumble match smarter and more realistic than literally anyone I've ever seen, and I think it is fair to say he is the top full time active heel in the company now. The only guys on the pecking order above him right now are Roman and Brock. I don't know how anyone can argue that Cody didn't "earn" it or whatever, Gunther still beat the living shit out of him, and it made Gunther look like a king bad ass to go the entire distance and still beat the fuck out of 30 and nearly win anyway.

It's time to retire the "WWE audience is going to turn on Cody like the AEW audience". They're not. That was a valid thought when he returned. It is not one anymore. The WWE audience loves Cody.

[Coffey]

13 minutes ago, strobogo said:

It's time to retire the "WWE audience is going to turn on Cody like the AEW audience". They're not. That was a valid thought when he returned. It is not one anymore. The WWE audience loves Cody.

Why is that? Because you say so? lmfao

[Flyin' Brian]

18 minutes ago, Tetsujin said:

Have Cody lose to Roman at night 1 and then Roman/Sami from night 2 can be for both titles instead of just the UC as originally announced.

Then you’ve wasted Cody coming back and winning the Rumble. The best thing I can think of is to have Roman lose the WWE title at Elimination Chamber in the chamber match to someone like Rollins or Gunther thanks to Sami taking him out, then do Rollins/Gunther vs Cody for the WWE title on night one and Sami vs Reigns for the Universal Title on night 2.

[Dale Wolfe]

Probably the most intrigue coming out of a Rumble in some time. Not a bad thing really

[Embrodak]

Honestly, I suspect the WWE audience that would turn on Cody like the audience turned on Batista probably doesn’t watch WWE much anymore. AEW is basically “Yes Movement: The Company” in terms of its demographic and product appeal. WWE has been doing a 22 year long winnowing of audiences that don’t go along with their booking plans. And let’s be real, Cody has done everything right in WWE that he did wrong in AEW; the highly imperfect WWE creative filter is perfect for canceling out Cody’s worst instincts.

I also disagree that the Sami/Bloodline stuff has been perfect. I think some cracks started to show in the last week as it’s starting to feel rushed with Mania approaching. The Sami trial came somewhat outta nowhere, like a chapter or two was skipped, and doing Sami’s turn so soon after that somewhat blunts the sense that Reigns was narcissistically paranoid to have questioned Sami’s loyalty. Jimmy jumping right to violence while Jey was genuinely hurt and just had to duck out was a great touch, though.

[KawadaSmile]

Why would people boo Cody? He had great reaction after great reaction ever since returning to WWE.

He is not taking the place of a fan favorite when he is the fan favorite. They just have now two super popular babyfaces, three if you count KO. We might be overthinking this, but having Sami/Roman at EC to set up a tag match with Owens against Jimmy/Solo (since Jey - what a character arc - is too conflicted) is reasonable. 

It's such a fucking great storyline I wouldn't even mind if Sami beat Roman on a non-title match. 

[El-P]

1 hour ago, Coffey said:

Also, I know it was an homage to his brother, but the Shattered Dreams is a very heel move. The #30 guy kicking the #1 guy in the balls to win. 

Yeah, good point too. What did Gunther even do to him that warranted this ? 

1 hour ago, Coffey said:

The crowd is going to turn him heel just like they did in AEW because he always comes off as pompous & extra. 

Although everybody was going gaga for Cody's first year as a babyface in AEW, and obviously he did great back then, my favorite Cody Rhodes is the Cody & Brandi kinda Macho King & Queen Sheri act I've seen them done in ROH and NJPW. That was the most fun Cody to me and really when he started to click, thanks in part to Brandi's terrific heel valet work.

As far as WWE's audience turning on him. Not convinced because :

31 minutes ago, Embrodak said:

Honestly, I suspect the WWE audience that would turn on Cody like the audience turned on Batista probably doesn’t watch WWE much anymore.

Yep. Also, and I hate to be that guy (well, not really), but I'm not convinced that if Cody cuts the infamous "I resolved racism, USA is the greatest country in the world" promo in WWE, the crowd doesn't cheer him like crazy. Let's be real, the WWE audience (a loud part of it at least) chanted "Thank you Vince", ok ? I know I sound patronizing, but like LA Knight would say, it's just a fact of life.

To me Cody is a heel at heart and there's something that reeks of duplicity in his game, complete with the teary eye and the never-ending references to his father (I don't care about psychoanalysis whatsoever, but for fuck's sake, move on). All in all, he's a perfect WWE corporate babyface.

31 minutes ago, Embrodak said:

The Sami trial came somewhat outta nowhere

You know why ? Because it was not supposed to happen when it did. Because the segment has been changed at the last moment. Because Dwayne could not be bothered. 

Not watching week to week and seen as a one-off, I thought it was tremendous. Kinda long though, it could have been faster paced. But that's WWE style, everything has to be heavy-handed and underlined as all hell. That's the style. I won't ask them to not be what they are. 

[strobogo]

39 minutes ago, Coffey said:

Why is that? Because you say so? lmfao

Because....did you watch the show? Have you seen any show Cody has been on since returning to WWE? Have you seen how WWE has promoted and treated him in his return? Did you see his merch selling out days in advance of the Rumble? 

[El-P]

13 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

They just have now two super popular babyfaces, three if you count KO.

Four if you count Bray. I know I know, I feel your pain.