Matt D Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 It really wasn't a huge TV feud. I'm sure there were event center promos and head inserts for matches, but yeah, no big blowoff. After Mania, Dibiase was with Virgil and Kerry was paired with Warlord for the next many months. I don't think there was any tv angle to set up that. He sort of floundered against Skinner, Berzerker, and Hercules (and more often than you would think) Kato (and Flair on the Europe tour) after that, until getting suspended in February 92 after his arrest. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted April 24, 2012 Report Share Posted April 24, 2012 Back then (and even in more recent times) it seemed any sort of feud that is fueled by the heel costing the face a championship of any kind due to outside interference (or vice versa, IE Piper/Rude from the year before) would have had more heat to it. I'd gather a good explanation for that brief run was that Ted wanted to help Kerry out with a good mid-card feud, and stave off the inevitable downward push KVH went through in '91 all the way to his departure. Another thing that bothered me about the whole deal, is that it had to have effected Kerry's already fragile state of mind. Here he is, now working for the company that helped put his father out of business, doing jobs for Kamala on house shows. It's a grim reminder of how insensitive WWE could appear at times to the talent, as compared to now with their more comprehensive rehabilitation programs. It does make me wonder if he'd be alive today if such policies were in place in '92. In just writing that I'd have to say no since there were legal implications (the shame of which ultimately drove him to suicide). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted August 19, 2012 Report Share Posted August 19, 2012 Have to love how Scott is changing all his opinions on the Attitude era PPVs he gave positive reviews to a decade ago I know the shows don't hold up but even at the time he was catching shit online for giving a lot of the shows thumbs up. The Summerslam retrospects is what I'm referencing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nell Santucci Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Back then (and even in more recent times) it seemed any sort of feud that is fueled by the heel costing the face a championship of any kind due to outside interference (or vice versa, IE Piper/Rude from the year before) would have had more heat to it. I'd gather a good explanation for that brief run was that Ted wanted to help Kerry out with a good mid-card feud, and stave off the inevitable downward push KVH went through in '91 all the way to his departure. Another thing that bothered me about the whole deal, is that it had to have effected Kerry's already fragile state of mind. Here he is, now working for the company that helped put his father out of business, doing jobs for Kamala on house shows. It's a grim reminder of how insensitive WWE could appear at times to the talent, as compared to now with their more comprehensive rehabilitation programs. It does make me wonder if he'd be alive today if such policies were in place in '92. In just writing that I'd have to say no since there were legal implications (the shame of which ultimately drove him to suicide). I must respectfully disagree here. Von Erich should have been lucky doing jobs after his February 1992 arrest. If you look through the 1991 results, you'll see Von Erich was the most habitual no-shower on the whole roster. It is noteworthy that Von Erich always had a very good relationship with Vince and that Vince paid for his rehab at the Betty Ford Clinic. Concerning WCCW going under, that had a lot more to do with their stars committing suicide, dying of ODs, and having unsustainable booking later on than Vince McMahon's national expansion succeeding. Vince never penetrated Dallas in any meaningful way until well after WCCW had buried itself. I couldn't find the following in the Wrestling Observer, though I didn't look terribly hard either, but I read from years ago that Von Erich had an OD as Intercontinental Champion and was rushed to the hospital. That incident was stated as a reason Vince pulled the belt from Von Erich. I'm neutral on that argument because, if true, it's entirely plausible. If the incident didn't happen, well, he had other reasons for pulling the belt off. I do think it's noteworthy that Mr. Perfect/Boss Man feud was much more storyline-based than title-based, which seemed unique to the WWF at the time. That seems to hint that Mr. Perfect's second title run was a booker's desperation move. I was always fascinated by Kerry's very public meltdown and had to read Meltzer's Wrestling Observer biography. In the end, I can't say many in his family come off as good people in the least between Kevin Von Erich holding up the promoter for Kerry's memorial show where funds would go to cover his children, Lacie and Holly. Their link with Pat Robertson's 700 Club was borderline creepy, and the Von Erich's was one of many "evangelical" families who would get exposed as dysfunctional con artists. It's a tragic story, but Kerry in particular had opportunity after opportunity to lead a productive life. His father owned a lot of real estate, and he could have gotten involved in that. He committed suicide when there was virtually no risk that he was going to go to prison (according to a source on WC, JeffinTX IIRC). And it's hard to feel sorry for a guy who habitually no-showed or came to his matches intoxicated because he cared more about himself than about the pride of doing one's job by giving the paying audience their money's worth. I questioned the veracity of the following interview, but apparently this "shoot interview" is legitimate: http://www.worldclasswrestling.info/kerryclark.htm [.] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nell Santucci Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 http://www.rspwfaq.net/2012/04/texas-tornado.html No, if anything they had smaller plans for him due to the missing foot and "demons". He was just a guy with a good look by that point and lucked into the IC title push. So Kerry "lucked" into the IC Title, which he won only a few weeks after his TV debut. This has long been said, but it seems like nonsense to me. Why did Mr. Perfect necessarily have to lose the Intercontinental Title? Answer: He didn't. Beefcake was over and was going to win. Beefcake got injured. Perfect had the title and needed an opponent. Vince signed Von Erich, a guy he long wanted to sign. Von Erich looked like someone, under the right conditions, who could be a charismatic star to complement the Ultimate Warrior. (In fact, Von Erich's first feud in the WWF was teaming with the Ultimate Warrior against Ravishing Rick Rude and Mr. Perfect.) Why not give Von Erich the shot, especially if Vince had reasons to not want to keep the belt on Hennig (say he wasn't drawing on B-shows)? The whole argument that Von Erich got the belt because Beefcake was scheduled to win the belt but got injured seems to have its roots in Scott Keith. Vince has never operated with that thought process in mind. Let's do a thought experiment. What if Von Erich never signed and some other face who could never draw on the B-show circuit was the replacement? Perfect would have kept the belt. Von Erich was just a can't-miss prospect at the time and happened to have a slot against Perfect, so Vince gave him an opportunity to draw and make the company some money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted August 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 I questioned the veracity of the following interview, but apparently this "shoot interview" is legitimate: http://www.worldclasswrestling.info/kerryclark.htm [.]IIRC that may not be the whole thing, but yes, it's legit. It's the one issue of John Clark's "Wrestling Flyer" newsletter that I have and he was best known for his interviews with name wrestlers, which some people thought were better than the Torch Talks. It's certainly interesting to read and seemingly backs up Bret Hart's insistence that Kerry was a much different guy when he was clean and not the idiot he came off as while wasted. The problem was that he was constantly wasted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 At least part of Kerry's no shows in that period were intentional since WWF was tipped off that there were plans to try to raid the locker rooms at shows because word was out to local police forces that Kerry most likely was holding while on probation for drug offenses. If I remember the sequence correctly, the first time it was attempted it happened to be a time where he legit no-showed, and after that it was more Vince/WWF telling him to maybe skip a few shows until the heat dies down. I also personally believe it's the reason they eventually let him go, they didn't want to risk having a public raid and have one of their top guys get busted. I'm not sure if that's better or worse than the accepted "Vince didn't want him suiciding while holding a belt" theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nell Santucci Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 At least part of Kerry's no shows in that period were intentional since WWF was tipped off that there were plans to try to raid the locker rooms at shows because word was out to local police forces that Kerry most likely was holding while on probation for drug offenses. If I remember the sequence correctly, the first time it was attempted it happened to be a time where he legit no-showed, and after that it was more Vince/WWF telling him to maybe skip a few shows until the heat dies down. I also personally believe it's the reason they eventually let him go, they didn't want to risk having a public raid and have one of their top guys get busted. I'm not sure if that's better or worse than the accepted "Vince didn't want him suiciding while holding a belt" theory. I'm not sure I'm following you. The raid happened in St. Louis in February of 1992 after Kerry's drug bust. Von Erich's no-shows were happening frequently in 1991. In fairness, there seemed to be at least one no-show on each WWF event, but Von Erich was the worst offender. If you're interested, I can do a tally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 What I was saying is that while Kerry certainly was a fuck up, once the raid happened they had him miss a few shows in case another raid was attempted. I don't believe they ever changed the advertising for those shows so it would appear to the fans he no showed since as far as they knew he was supposed to be there but wasn't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nell Santucci Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 What I was saying is that while Kerry certainly was a fuck up, once the raid happened they had him miss a few shows in case another raid was attempted. I don't believe they ever changed the advertising for those shows so it would appear to the fans he no showed since as far as they knew he was supposed to be there but wasn't. Sure, I believe that. But I am making a point that well before the raid of St. Louis, Von Erich's JTTS status, for all intents and purposes, was established because of his habitual no-showing in 1991. (There are seven recorded accounts of his missing shows between September of 1991 and December 31, 1991, and these all preceded his prescription drug forgery.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 20, 2012 Report Share Posted August 20, 2012 Are any of those Ted-Kerry matches any good? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Nell Santucci Posted August 21, 2012 Report Share Posted August 21, 2012 Are any of those Ted-Kerry matches any good? There are two recorded DiBiase/Von Erich matches recorded when they were in the WWF. On the Wrestlefest tape, the match was a basic TV match where Von Erich pinned DiBiase with the help of Virgil. I gave that match *1/4. Their encounter in Japan is much better but not one I'd go out of my way to recommend. I gave that **1/2. It was uniquely worked for a WWF match, but the match never seemed to kick into second gear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted September 1, 2012 Report Share Posted September 1, 2012 http://www.rspwfaq.net/2012/08/terms-that-...l#disqus_thread SKeith apprently incurred the wrath of Tyson Kidd for insinuating that Harry Smith used steroids. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 2, 2012 Report Share Posted September 2, 2012 http://www.rspwfaq.net/2012/08/terms-that-...l#disqus_thread SKeith apprently incurred the wrath of Tyson Kidd for insinuating that Harry Smith used steroids. Well he did fail a Wellness test, so it's not like he was just making shit up about the guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruiserBrody Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 (2) Who is / was the greatest ever female wrestler (taking into account drawing ability, wrestling ability, promos etc.)? SK: 2. Probably Akira Hokuto or Madusa in terms of actual drawing ability. I mean, I love Trish as a worker and promo, but she was never in position to draw money outside of one match. Madusa? Was she a draw in Japan? WCW and WWE never had her in a "drawing" spot. Sable had to have drawn tons more in both merch and viewers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 I don't know if Madusa was a draw, but she had a certain level of stardom. It's far from the most embarrassing thing he's ever said, and I'm shocked that he mentioned Akira Hokuto. I wouldn't expect him to mention Chigusa Nagayo, who at her peak was the most popular wrestler in history. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Hokuto was presented as the best female wrestler in the world during the Monday Night Wars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 I don't know if Madusa was a draw, but she had a certain level of stardom. It's far from the most embarrassing thing he's ever said, and I'm shocked that he mentioned Akira Hokuto. I wouldn't expect him to mention Chigusa Nagayo, who at her peak was the most popular wrestler in history. I've never heard anyone go that far in describing Chigusa's popularity. What metric are you using? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Crossover appeal. Dave has compared her popularity in Japan in the 80s to that of Madonna in the U.S. at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Madusa? Was she a draw in Japan? Eh, she was fairly popular during her initial 89-90 run over thear & got pushed as an upper card & occasional main eventer but she fit more into the catagory of someone the fans would buy on top against the star rather then beeing the star herself if that makese sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 23, 2012 Report Share Posted September 23, 2012 Who is Madusa? Is it you? Is it me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 OK. But aren't Rikidozan and El Santo cultural icons in their home countries on par with Washington and Lincoln in the US? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Sure. I am not the first person to make that case by the way. Dave has said it himself. I hate to cite that as my evidence, but ... it is my evidence. He did a post at Classics once explaining it that I will try to find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 Crossover appeal. Dave has compared her popularity in Japan in the 80s to that of Madonna in the U.S. at the same time. Wait... what the fuck? Chigusa was a popular in Japan in 1984-89 as Madonna was in the US? I'd really need to see that well documented to not view that as massively hitting the bong. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohtani's jacket Posted September 24, 2012 Report Share Posted September 24, 2012 OK. But aren't Rikidozan and El Santo cultural icons in their home countries on par with Washington and Lincoln in the US? Uh, no. Don't agree with the Madonna analogy either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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