Dave Meltzer stuff

[Ricky Jackson]

There is so much trash in pop culture these days, and so many people with "bizarre" interests, that I'm not sure if admitting to being a wrestling fan is even an embarrassing revelation anymore.

[Superstar Sleeze]

I was waiting for you guys to get to Soap Operas. I am actually a pretty big Soaps fan and sad to see their demise in the US. My grandmother was born in Portugal and can barely speak English, but she sure loves her Soaps. I remember growing up and being taken care by her and it was the daily routine: 10 am Guiding Light; 11 am Price is Right; Noon News; 12:30 Young & The Restless; 1:30 Bold & The Beautiful; 2 pm As The World Turns; 3pm General Hospital. It is something has stuck with me my whole life. Just last night, I was watching taped episodes of GH with my mother last night from this week and was a religious fan of B&B last summer. I acknowledge the acting is pretty atrocious, but the plots are actually pretty fun and the women are usually wicked hot. Wrestling has always had soap opera storytelling and of course continues

 

There is something about soap operaic storytelling that I just love. I like the non-linear storytelling, the open-endedness, the continuity/discontinuity (people coming back to life, you got to find that body). I am a huge history buff. Anybody who reads history books especially about Medieval Europe regularly know they are just real soap operas with all the sex, violence and intrigue that wrestling and TV soaps provide. My parents were watching the Borgias with me the other day, which is about how a late 15th Century Pope, which had 3 children and zillions of mistresses. They were like no fucking way this happened. I was like not only did this happen; there was an even worse period called the Pornocracy in the 10th Century when every single of vice you can think of was running rampant on the steps of the Lateran. This all made my Dad, one of my favorite quotes from him, "Martin, why did you not tell me that history had all this fucking and killing, I would have been reading a long time ago."

 

This of course brings me to wrestling, which in mind is the ultimate male soap opera with its hyper-masculine shows of bravado, I think it is culmination of pretty much everything I love about this world: over the top outrageous entertainment, athletics and crazy angles. I don't have explain wrestling to you guys, but the reason I think it has not crossed over in the same way video games and comic books have.

 

Wrestling will always be the ultimate White Trash form of entertainment.

 

Soap operas are the domain of house wives. I am very open soaps fan in my life. People tease me, but they do not look down on me. They just think it is a weird thing I like and I think they understand that it is something I like to watch with my mother and grandmother. Now closer to the White Trash thing. I am a HUGE, Unabashed fan of Ke$ha. Ke$ha is the female pop incarnation of Motley Crue for my generation. I am a HUGE Glam & Sleaze metal fan. Glitter and booze is just a great combination. This is where I start to get those "WTF glances", but I think there is something about the vintageness of Glam Metal and the pop hooks of Ke$ha that keep most people at bay. There is something fun about glam metal and Ke$ha that people get. My wrestling fandom though is reprehensible to almost everyone.

 

 

I have to believe it is because that is associated with the dregs of society. I have lived my entire life in the North. So no offense to Southerners, but the way people react to up here is very, very similar to how they react to NASCAR. It is not just that NASCAR is boring to most people, who live around here. I think people are actually revolted by the people who watch it. When people say wrestling is fake as the reason they do not like it. I believe they are saying only children and simple-minded folk should like wrestling. I do not think it is just deception aspect. They see an incredibly trashy program centered around men battling for egos with pseudo-tough guys. If you don't actually watch it, you don't see all the clowning and over the top fun there is involved in wrestling. The mainstream conception of wrestling is two bulked up, dumb lunks yelling at each other. When most wrestling is very different.

 

Out of all things I like, wrestling is my favorite. It is my baby. I expect almost everyone on here to abhor Ke$ha and think that Motley Crue sucks the meat missile. It is something I just laugh off. It is like everybody is saying you like what you like. I totally agree with that philosophy save for wrestling.

 

However, it irks me when a non-fan goes after wrestling and much like Parv, I do not bring it up at all. I just know it is something that will get me frustrated. My family actually enjoys because of how into it I am, but only my closest friends know that I even watch it. It is because wrestling is such a different beast than forms of entertainment. Outside of the Globetrotters, is there really anything like it? Without having much it for a couple years, you wont really get it.

 

On the deception angle, wrestlers are like magicians. They have their roots in carnivals. Once again, carnies are something associated with white trash. I do think people like to suspend their disbelief, but there is something different about magicians that make more people accepting of their art of deception. It may because it is actually a puzzle for people to figure out. People think they know how wrestlers "fake" it; only to find out they blade. God, when my friends found out they blade through The Wrestler, they were disgusted. Anyways, I need to go out, but I do want to flesh out this some more. I mainly wanted to add the White Trash thing.

[Graham Crackers]

I'm not ambitious enough to write some long post about this but I really hope someone on here is/was a big daytime soap opera fan because a soap opera thread on the Pro Wrestling Mostly board would be fantastic. I've been following Days of Our Lives my entire life and as I became a big wrestling fan I started to see the parallels between wrestling booking and the structures of these shows. Yeah, you could argue that most of these things are true of most long running serials but hear me out. I see it in soaps more than I see it in anything else. There are clear heels and faces and are at any given time are anchored by an ace and top heel with smaller stories making up the "midcard." You can even see them pushing characters by giving them the rub of interacting with more important characters so they can be moved up the "card." . Having watched it for so long I have seen them reusing the same storylines after a few years when they will now be fresh kind of like that old Cornette quote about reusing angles.

 

Also, watching Days of Our Lives nowadays is kind of like watching current pro wrestling NOAH.

[goc]

Grew up watching soaps sometimes with my grandma, and the WORST thing that WWE has taken from Soaps is that long drawn out zoom in on a character's face before changing scenes.

[clintthecrippler]

Matt D used the phrase "reality show writers" in one of his posts.

 

Calling out reality shows is generally my response to "you know it's fake, right?"

 

Unless the person doesn't watch reality shows either, that is usually enough to get people to shut up.

[El-P]

I honestly treat wresting like a Mafia activity and have for years. I don't discuss the Family business with people outside the Family. ;-)

The same.

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

My friends who give me shit about wrestling are the ones who think they're historians because they watch the History Channel. Fuck them.

[KrisZ]

Reality shows are the new pro wrestling anyway

[Robert S]

I honestly treat wresting like a Mafia activity and have for years. I don't discuss the Family business with people outside the Family. ;-)

The same.

 

Same here. When friends or co-workers or so in conversations make some vague wrestling references I even pretend that I don't know what the hell they are talking about.

[Dylan Waco]

I literally cannot imagine being a closeted fan. It doesn't seem like it's even worth the effort to be honest. If I was that far in the closet I just wouldn't watch.

[Phil Schneider]

Yeah seems weird, you aren't into scat porn

[Death From Above]

It's not even an issue of being closeted.

 

If someone else brings it up, I'll talk. I make a few (quite dated, admittedly) wrestling jokes, including making fun of celebrities that tan to the point they become "Hulk Hogan Orange".

 

I just don't directly bring it up and go "hey who wants to discuss the pro wrestling". Hell, I can't even imagine a social situation that I'd want to do that. It's not as if this ever comes up in conversation with normal people to begin with. I mean in general if you know someone doesn't like something, why discuss it with them? "I hate basketball" you don't follow that up with an attempt to justify basketball to them. You talk about football or baseball or whatever instead. It's not important enough to need to convince people about anything.

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

I'm not closeted, but I avoid the subject if I can. It just gets old hearing the same old questions and one-liners.

[Eduardo]

Anyone ever just say you're a fan of lucha libre?

 

Maybe it's a regional thing but in Texas, I've never had anyone give me shit for being a lucha libre fan. All types of people that I've talked to, from different walks of life and ethnicity, seem totally cool and non-judgmental with lucha libre, even if they are non-fans.

[pantherwagner]

Reality shows are the new pro wrestling anyway

Who was it that said that it's a shame that the world has got millions and millions of marks but only a tiny percentage are fans of wrestling? Sounds like something that Cornette would say.

[soup23]

Graham if you want to discuss DAYS in a pro wrestling mostly board, I can contribute because my wife watches every day and I had taken an interest to it. I do see a lot of parallels between soaps and wrestling but become more frustrated with soaps in not being able to have a clear blowoff most of the time.

 

I also take the stance of if you bring it up, I will admit I am a fan but it is not something I promote. All of my close and moderate friends know I like wrestling, but me going to Wrestlemania and having pictures posted everywhere on social media outed me for a lot of "work" friends. Of my two closest work friends (both female) one took it very well and even brings it up to me and we discuss vague details such as "isnt there a PPV coming up" and stuff like that. The other one sort of chastised me for it and I do see a difference in our relationship at work which I find strange.

[khawk20]

Graham if you want to discuss DAYS in a pro wrestling mostly board, I can contribute because my wife watches every day and I had taken an interest to it. I do see a lot of parallels between soaps and wrestling but become more frustrated with soaps in not being able to have a clear blowoff most of the time.

Mine too. I know what's going on by default but I can't stand it, I think now that you mention it because of the lack of blowoffs, so to speak.

 

I don't discuss wrestling with people because nobody I know is interested in it here at all, even at a rudimentary, Raw-on-Monday perspective of watching. I occasionally run into someone that I haven't seen in years that remembers I was a wrestling fan, and have no trouble discussing the good old days with them. People fondly remember the Hogan era in the 80's and the NWO era, strangely enough, which makes me think that if they could do something as compelling these days that could get the attention of "everyone", it could get casual fans involved again.

 

Of course, these days, most of those folks are into reality tv, which makes the potential audience for a big mainstream wrestling comeback less than when it had the stage itself, so to speak.

[Loss]

I may or may not have gotten sucked into Days of Our Lives in the last few months.

[KrisZ]

My parents has watched DOOL since the 60's so yes I have seen my fair share of it over the years.

 

 

You don't want none

[Graham Crackers]

Yeah, storylines on soaps stew for a long time before being blown off but for a while now they have clearly planned their biggest storylines to have major revelations or climaxes during sweeps week. There also the summer storylines aimed towards teen viewers that typically wrap up just before school starts again.

 

Kris, Days of Our Lives is in my blood too. It was my grandmother's favorite show and my mother claims she only watches it because she expects to run into grandma in the afterlife and she'll want to know what she's missed. At this point my mother watches it the same way I was watching WWE shows when I had a TV. She DVR's the show but only watches the parts with the characters she cares about.

 

And as for the whole hiding wrestling from friends thing, I think it's ridiculous the shame some fans have for pro wrestling. I meet tons of people who are/were fans but I also spend most of my time surrounded by artists, musicians, circus freaks, burlesque dancers, drag queens, cartoon historians, and b-movie fans so they're prone to appreciating lowbrow art and culture. Sure, some of my coworkers might scoff at pro wrestling if I brought it up to them but I've also had coworkers tell me hip-hop isn't music and comics are only for kids so what do I care what they think?

[Ricky Jackson]

I wear my fandom on my sleeve, almost literally, as I have several Randy Savage pins on my winter jacket. Everyone who gets to know me beyond the small talk stage knows I'm a fan of wrestling. I've even told co-workers about PWO and that I do wrestling-themed podcasts in my spare time. I've attempted to convert several people over the years. Unfortunately, I hardly know any wrestling fans in real life anymore.

 

I also used to watch Days with my mom when I was a kid. I even went through a stage in my early-20s where I taped it while I was at work and watched it when I got home. I haven't watched it in years, but I'm still a mark for Stefano DiMera.

[EricR]

I keep it secret as I only like watching wrestling when I'm jacking off to scat porn.

[Robert S]

Yeah seems weird, you aren't into scat porn

Over here in Austria I am not sure that for a 30+ year old watching wrestling is socially more acceptable than being into scat porn.

[Log]

I guess I'm lucky. I work with a bunch of wrestling fans. We talk about it all the time. Being in Louisville, it's cool because people bring up Lawler and Dundee instead of Hogan and Ultimate Warrior. Savage is well-known too since a few of the old-timers I work with did production for Poffo's promotion. The current director at my station used to get calls from Savage at home to come out and eat with the guys when they were around town. Also, one of our anchors is a commentator for OVW. There are actually people at work who are jealous of him since he know's Jim Cornette. Hell, one of our production guys wears a CM Punk t-shirt to work, and no one bats an eye.

[Loss]

I keep it a secret partially because I'm gay and people assume that I'm into it for the idea of seeing sweaty men roll around, which usually manages to make me pretty mad. It's also a safe way to avoid the "Don't you know it's fake?" conversations and even worse, the guy who thinks he knows everything about wrestling because he can tell you that Kane used to be Dr. Isaac Yankem. The first time someone told me that, he also got into a long debate with me where he tried to convince me that the Rock/HHH ladder match at Summerslam '98 was a shoot and I just threw in the towel. I'd just rather not. I live within walking distance of Wrigley Field and I'm surrounded by gays, hipsters, yuppies and Cubs fans, so I'm not sure where wrestling would fit into my social circles anyway.