Eduardo Posted December 30, 2013 Report Share Posted December 30, 2013 I'm talking about UFC in it's current incarnation specifically. I'm aware of worked shoots and whatnot. Chael Sonnen knew his role completely, played up to it vs. Anderson Silva. And due to this UFC did some great PPV numbers. He wasn't even the #1 contender Who should've gotten the title shots Sonnen got ahead of him? He got the first one after beating Okami and Marquardt (well, and Dan Miller), then got the second one after beating Stann and Bisping. The only other guy "in line" in 2010 was Vitor, but Sonnen had really done more to earn it (Vitor beat Rich Franklin at a 195 catch weight in his UFC return). Unless you're arguing Bisping was robbed on the decision, who the hell should have gotten the 2012 shot? Hector Lombard in his debut? Vitor instead of doing TUF Brazil? Alan Belcher for how he beat Palhares? Also, to add to what Bix is saying, both Sonnen-Marquardt and Sonnen-Bisping were promoted as being title eliminators before the fights. Marquardt and Okami were considered the top contenders at the time when Sonnen beat them back-to-back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 --Here's a GQ article on MMA fighter Fallon Fox, the man who turned into a woman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 He probably confusing his shot vs. Jon Jones. The Jones title shot was total out of nowhere "we want to pop a buyrate" UFC matchmaking. Chael hadn't even fought at that weight class in years and was handed a title shot coming off a PED suspension. It was ridiculous. I heard a commentator on an NBA game last week say "he's turned heel!" or "he's gone heel!" or something like that. Yes, heels and faces is wrestling terminology, but they exist in the lexicon to the degree that a random NBA commentator can make a comment in that regard, or a random Yahoo writer can write that headline, and to pretend like it's a 100% only applicable to wrestling turn of phrase is silly. Wrestling may exist in a bubble, but that doesn't mean that "outsiders" aren't acute to the sport. This is not "Dave Meltzer thinks everything is rasslin" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 He probably confusing his shot vs. Jon Jones. The Jones title shot was total out of nowhere "we want to pop a buyrate" UFC matchmaking. Chael hadn't even fought at that weight class in years and was handed a title shot coming off a PED suspension. It was ridiculous. I heard a commentator on an NBA game last week say "he's turned heel!" or "he's gone heel!" or something like that. Yes, heels and faces is wrestling terminology, but they exist in the lexicon to the degree that a random NBA commentator can make a comment in that regard, or a random Yahoo writer can write that headline, and to pretend like it's a 100% only applicable to wrestling turn of phrase is silly. Wrestling may exist in a bubble, but that doesn't mean that "outsiders" aren't acute to the sport. This is not "Dave Meltzer thinks everything is rasslin" If someone says "X turned heel," you think wrestling. He didn't call her a heel for being a dick, he said "she turned heel" as in her character is now that of a heel/bad guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 well, not shaking Tate's hand was a heel move. If you want to be specific she "turned heel" over the course of TUF by coming off like such an unlikable person. If anything that moment cemented her as a heel in the eyes of the fans who already disliked her based on that show and the Rousey-Tate build up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvd356 Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 The word is that if Hulk Hogan cannot compete in a tag match with John Cena at WrestleMania 30, Cena will be switched into a singles match. At this time, Cena's match would be with Bray Wyatt, and would be considered the main event of the show. Vince McMahon recently stated to WWE writers and producers that, "Cena is the main event until his time is clearly up. That man feeds us!" Credit: WrestlingObserver.com First off, Hogan & Cena in a tag match? What is this a 2005 RAW match? It's been done and doesn't need to be revisted. Speaking of 2005 that was the last year Hogan could even remotely "Go" in ring, and 2002 being the last year he could actually go at the level necessary. I'd rather they have Hogan, Punk & Bryan vs. The Shield where they could actually build an awesome 30-minute match around the geezer. He deserves a last hurrah for making Wrestlemania what it is but there's no need to waste Cena's huge Mania XXX match on him. Bray Wyatt? Well Vince's got it right on the dot about Cena, he IS the WWE. Buyrates, ratings, merch, matches & brawls and hyping up shows. He does it all. But Bray Wyatt just isn't over enough for that slot and I don't see him heating up like say Batista in '05, Benoit is '04, Rock in '99 or Austin in '98. I definitely see more of a Miz in 2011 bombing of the main event, minus all the heat from returning Rock's hype. I mean The Undertaker/Cena match is RIGHT there, with a full year of healing up after Taker's last classic(no sarcasm, it was ***** IMO) with Punk. Plus it'd be a surefire million buy+ main event and the only big time match that is 50/50 on the outcome, just like Warrior/Hogan Ultimate Challenge or Rock/Cena I and very few others in 'Mania history. Sure Taker has unfinished business with Punk, the Shield and Brock but none of those bring the mystique of "Streak vs. Franchise" or even have Cena take the belt off of Orton and go with "Streak vs. Title" and since there's an Undisputed championship now, that match would be The Main Event. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 He probably confusing his shot vs. Jon Jones. Yup, it seem's my last few years of MMA memories are all merging together! However, I think being a "heel" vs. not being a "heel" will make a difference in future buy rates where she main events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 The word is that if Hulk Hogan cannot compete in a tag match with John Cena at WrestleMania 30, Cena will be switched into a singles match. At this time, Cena's match would be with Bray Wyatt, and would be considered the main event of the show. Vince McMahon recently stated to WWE writers and producers that, "Cena is the main event until his time is clearly up. That man feeds us!" Credit: WrestlingObserver.com First off, Hogan & Cena in a tag match? What is this a 2005 RAW match? It's been done and doesn't need to be revisted. Speaking of 2005 that was the last year Hogan could even remotely "Go" in ring, and 2002 being the last year he could actually go at the level necessary. I'd rather they have Hogan, Punk & Bryan vs. The Shield where they could actually build an awesome 30-minute match around the geezer. He deserves a last hurrah for making Wrestlemania what it is but there's no need to waste Cena's huge Mania XXX match on him. Bray Wyatt? Well Vince's got it right on the dot about Cena, he IS the WWE. Buyrates, ratings, merch, matches & brawls and hyping up shows. He does it all. But Bray Wyatt just isn't over enough for that slot and I don't see him heating up like say Batista in '05, Benoit is '04, Rock in '99 or Austin in '98. I definitely see more of a Miz in 2011 bombing of the main event, minus all the heat from returning Rock's hype. I mean The Undertaker/Cena match is RIGHT there, with a full year of healing up after Taker's last classic(no sarcasm, it was ***** IMO) with Punk. Plus it'd be a surefire million buy+ main event and the only big time match that is 50/50 on the outcome, just like Warrior/Hogan Ultimate Challenge or Rock/Cena I and very few others in 'Mania history. Sure Taker has unfinished business with Punk, the Shield and Brock but none of those bring the mystique of "Streak vs. Franchise" or even have Cena take the belt off of Orton and go with "Streak vs. Title" and since there's an Undisputed championship now, that match would be The Main Event. Like it or not, Triple H loves the Bray Wyatt character. Sure he could eventually sour on him but it is more likelier the WWE sees more value long term in Wyatt. Putting him in a main event at Wrestlemania against Cena would only help to elevate him to where he can be a major player going forward in the new WWE year afterwards. And Wyatt is not a character where you end up exposing him badly in a series of wrong booking moves like the Miz was. He is an evil cult leader figure. That itself is pretty straightforward. Unless of course they sacrifice the stable for Daniel Bryan but if Wyatt is the plan for Cena, I would imagine not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 I would though be remiss if I did not say that it is disappointing the way the WWE views their landscape as being John Cena and nothing else. A lot of it is self inflicted in that John Cena was put in main events dating back to 2005 and they have not looked back. They have depended on a mixture of stars established "BC" (before Cena) and flavor of the month guys like The Miz, Ziggler, Swagger, etc around this one guy but there hasn't been the same consistency lent to other people's pushes as to Cena. For a company that wants to make the name "WWE" the star, they have been too reliant on one man. What is wrong with pushing other people to his level? Is Cena really pulling in amazing PPV numbers above whatever else that has been tried? The fans love CM Punk and Daniel Bryan and it isn't even close. I understand the WWE might dig the whole controversial nature of Cena's reactions but I think it looks better if the guys that are purported to be the heroes of the WWE are guys that the fans treat as such on a total scale. What is wrong with spinning Cena off into a sideshow? Devote half hour to a hour of the RAW show to whatever Cena is doing but leave the main storylines to other people... with the occasional path crossing from time to time again. Let other guys grow into acts the WWE can trust. Just a thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rvd356 Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 It's always been that way though, Hogan(Cena) was always on another level than Jake Roberts(Daniel Bryan) or Randy Savage(CM Punk). I do think they need to start finding the next power move-great wrestler-with charisma guy pretty soon though. Yeah that's hard to find though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Going back to "Ronda turned heel"... well she pretty much says so here: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 It's always been that way though, Hogan(Cena) was always on another level than Jake Roberts(Daniel Bryan) or Randy Savage(CM Punk). I do think they need to start finding the next power move-great wrestler-with charisma guy pretty soon though. Yeah that's hard to find though. Their best period creatively was when they had TWO bonafide babyface aces in Austin and the Rock with guys like Foley, Jericho, Benoit, etc not too far behind and strong heels like Taker, Kane, Triple H, Angle, etc. Meaning they are better served making it an ensemble cast type show again, which helps their philosophy of making the show the draw instead of individuals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 It's always been that way though, Hogan(Cena) was always on another level than Jake Roberts(Daniel Bryan) or Randy Savage(CM Punk). I do think they need to start finding the next power move-great wrestler-with charisma guy pretty soon though. Yeah that's hard to find though. Jake wasn't consistently more over though than Hogan was(Yeah I know, unaired Snake Pit angle). I watched everything WWE for a year and DB had Cena beat in pops all year. I've never seen the problems in pushing different wrestlers and seeing what happens. It's not like WWE is going to bomb ratings wise for putting someone different over for a few weeks to see if it clicks or not. The best wrestling companies always had multiple people at the top whether it be the AJPW Big 4, the Three Musketers or Lawler/Dundee/Idol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 Agreed. I would say the backlash when Cena does finally leave/retire is going to be worse than the way business tanked after Hogan left. Which is all part of Vince's plan to sink the company after he leaves IMO. On a subconscious level at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fxnj Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 I've never seen the problems in pushing different wrestlers and seeing what happens. It's not like WWE is going to bomb ratings wise for putting someone different over for a few weeks to see if it clicks or not. The best wrestling companies always had multiple people at the top whether it be the AJPW Big 4, the Three Musketers or Lawler/Dundee/Idol.Dunno about the other 2 but AJPW's 4 kings isn't a good example of multiple guys on top since Misawa was always very clearly positioned as the ace and even when he lost the title, it felt like the guy who took it from him was trying to prove they deserved the spot. 80's NWA was also pretty good with Ric Flair as the top guy. In a way, I prefer having someone as the undisputed ace so you can have clear passing of the torch moments like when Kobashi finally got his big title match win over Misawa in NOAH and set off their boom period. But I don't really follow WWE's soap opera bullshit, so whatever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jesse Ewiak Posted January 1, 2014 Report Share Posted January 1, 2014 It's always been that way though, Hogan(Cena) was always on another level than Jake Roberts(Daniel Bryan) or Randy Savage(CM Punk). I do think they need to start finding the next power move-great wrestler-with charisma guy pretty soon though. Yeah that's hard to find though. Jake wasn't consistently more over though than Hogan was(Yeah I know, unaired Snake Pit angle). I watched everything WWE for a year and DB had Cena beat in pops all year. I've never seen the problems in pushing different wrestlers and seeing what happens. It's not like WWE is going to bomb ratings wise for putting someone different over for a few weeks to see if it clicks or not. The best wrestling companies always had multiple people at the top whether it be the AJPW Big 4, the Three Musketers or Lawler/Dundee/Idol. DB may be getting bigger pops than Cena, but Cena is still drawing more money than Bryan. Now, part of that may be horrible booking, but HiaC PPV numbers are is the only PPV in months to be up over last year and that can largely be pointed too by Cena's return + HBK as special ref. That's not even counting the obscene amount of merch he draws. Cena is still Hogan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted January 2, 2014 Report Share Posted January 2, 2014 The Jones title shot was total out of nowhere "we want to pop a buyrate" UFC matchmaking. Chael hadn't even fought at that weight class in years and was handed a title shot coming off a PED suspension. It was ridiculous. I disagree. Two of the top contenders (Machida and Rua) were offered that fight, and turned it down. If there was a ranked contender who wanted the fight, and Sonnen got it over them, that would be one thing. (Like when Hendricks clearly deserved the shot at GSP but GSP wanted and got Diaz instead.) Dana White made it clear that Sonnen was the only one ready and willing to take that fight at that time. Everybody else had unreasonable demands which would have resulted in the fight being delayed by as many as 6-9 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 This is funny to me for various reasons WHO WAS THE BIGGEST STAR OF THE TOKYO DOME ERA? Kenta Kobashi 23.8% Keiji Muto 19.2% Mitsuharu Misawa 14.6% Shinya Hashimoto 12.1% Antonio Inoki 11.4% Bob Sapp 8.2% Kazushi Sakuraba 5.3% Genichiro Tenryu 2.1% Andy Hug 1.4% Nobuhiko Takada 0.7% Riki Choshu 0.7% Peter Aerts 0.4% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Goes to show these are quizzes and not actual polls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 Ah ah ah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted January 3, 2014 Report Share Posted January 3, 2014 I have a friend who grew up in Japan and though he knows of a number of NJ stars, even Tanahashi, he says he's never even heard of Kobashi. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I have a friend who grew up in Japan and though he knows of a number of NJ stars, even Tanahashi, he says he's never even heard of Kobashi.Very believable. Japanese follow a handful of wrestlers or one promotion only. It's too expensive and time consuming to do so otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 On MMA coverage when someone said "the real reason is because he wants to": The real answer was because I wanted to be the first guy to the dance instead of the last. The answer today is that I'd be dumber than a tree stump not to. What does every single bit of evidence from this site indicate. Please guys, don't be a tree stump. Not this week. We had more traffic last Saturday for the live coverage before the main event started than all but a few shows had overall, including WrestleMania. Curiously, not SummerSlam. I mean seriously, everyone has a right to their taste and all, and I hate to say it this way, but the reason I can stay ahead of the pack in wrestling is because I'm trying to learn every week what works, and right now, a lot of what works is outside of wrestling. That's why I watch Floyd as well. You seriously can't understand what works if you didn't see the Floyd-Canelo HBO shows, because nothing worked at even remotely close to that level all year when it comes to personalities and storytelling. Seriously, if you want analysis from guys who are only within the box, this is not the place to be. If you don't want analysis, this isn't the place to be either. It's not for everyone, but I have to cover what gets the response today and be looking for what will get the response tomorrow before it does. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 The fact that Dave doesn't view himself as "within the [wrestling] box" is hilarious to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Dave keeps mistakenly referring to HBO when he should be saying Showtime for those "All Access" shows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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