Dave Meltzer stuff

[pol]

Munro/Puma was a classic Dave style match that he would gush over of course. It was a really fun match but I wouldn't go as far as he did

 

I guess it just laid bare to me how into that kind of stuff Dave is that a pretty average example of the style is more enjoyable for him than a really good WWE style match. Evaluating both within the context of their respective styles, that match didn't touch, say, Ambrose vs. Rollins on RAW from just a couple months ago.

[KrisZ]

Yeah the show was an easy watch even though there was some stuff I didn't care for which was mainly the booking.

 

Dario Cueto is my dude though

[Phil Schneider]

That Dave quote is really embarrassing.

[Loss]

Jim Ross was actually really good on that show. Grouchy, but everything he said was pretty spot on.

[W2BTD]

re: Gedo & Jado getting over "tons of headliners" - It really depends how you define the word "tons".

 

Styles is a legitimate headliner now. So is Ishii. Plus obviously Okada. I'd argue they got Suzuki over as a headliner two or three years ago. Ibushi is well on his way. Shibata. Devitt was headlining before he left.

 

Not to mention they've managed to get over not one, but two secondary titles, both completely from scratch with no history or tradition to help. The IC title routinely headlines shows without missing a beat, and the NEVER title was literally a throw away nothing title a year ago, and is now stronger than probably any title in the world aside from IWGP heavy, IWGP IC, WWE, Dream Gate, and maybe ROH or Triple Crown but I would argue for NEVER.

[W2BTD]

dave went a little too far with the Mundo/Puma match, but it was a really awesome match. It would be the best match on most RAW's, just about any Impact, and a good chunk of ROH shows this year. Wouldn't be crazy to call it a Top 20 TV match this year.

[JerryvonKramer]

 

Im not really a fan of being overly critical of bookers who have more than doubled core business in two years while getting tons of headliners over and created a secondary title that can viably headline PPV shows

 

This is strange given how much Meltzer criticised Vince and WWF booking in the 80s.

[PhilTLL]

Rollins said that, “I proved intellect conquers unbridled mayhem perpetuated by a madman who should be institutionalized.” That sentence is one of the problems. It’s something a creative writer would write, but not something a wrestler, unless it’s someone doing the Jericho/Bockwinkel erudite gimmick, would say.

 

 

Right, yes, absolutely...

 

They need to write how a 20s cocky gym rat would talk.

 

 

Oh for chrissakes.

 

[shakla]

Probably a year or so ago, Dave had a valid tangent about how WWE wrestlers were being scripted to say words that no one over 7 would say, like "wiener" and "caca". But yes, that criticism stood out to me as well in this weeks issue.

[Alucard]

Probably a year or so ago, Dave had a valid tangent about how WWE wrestlers were being scripted to say words that no one over 7 would say, like "wiener" and "caca". But yes, that criticism stood out to me as well in this weeks issue.

 

I laughed out loud at "caca" when Alberto used that last year, came off hilariously over the top being unusual to hear on WWE tv.

[MJH]

That Seth Rollins quote is horrible in any context. I got a kick out of Jericho using "gelatinous" et al, and Alexander Theroux would make a great heel manager, but the Rollins line is something I'd expect from a fourteen year old failing to show off in his first GCSE English assignment.

[goc]

Writing promos for someone else can't be easy. It certainly can't be easy to write promos for a bunch of different guys with completely different characters. And that's talking about a good writer who understands and loves wrestling. The writers they hire? We should be happy the promos aren't any worse. They should give every person on the roster the opportunity to write their own promo and then let someone like Vince, HHH or Steph pick between the talent's own version or the writer's.

 

I have a stupidly long running game on TEW with a lot of characters that I made up. I still couldn't write word for word promos for any of them.

[MJH]

I'd disagree and say it's standard scriptwriting practice. Problems arise from writing roles for actors cast rather than the other way around, or casting amongst a shallower pool and thus not best fitting those involved, and said "actors" not being particularly gifted. And, of course, the Monday afternoon rewrite meaning the scripts are at the roughest draft/expanded early treatment level. Even Shakespeare's first drafts sucked, no doubt.

[TRMD]

Is anyone actually in favor of writers writing promos? I've honestly never seen anybody support it. From the wrestlers themselves to fans.

[tofu_chipmunk]

Is anyone actually in favor of writers writing promos? I've honestly never seen anybody support it. From the wrestlers themselves to fans.

 

The people making the decisions are in favor of it, so there you go.

[stomperspc]

re: Gedo & Jado getting over "tons of headliners" - It really depends how you define the word "tons".

 

Styles is a legitimate headliner now. So is Ishii. Plus obviously Okada. I'd argue they got Suzuki over as a headliner two or three years ago. Ibushi is well on his way. Shibata. Devitt was headlining before he left.

 

Not to mention they've managed to get over not one, but two secondary titles, both completely from scratch with no history or tradition to help. The IC title routinely headlines shows without missing a beat, and the NEVER title was literally a throw away nothing title a year ago, and is now stronger than probably any title in the world aside from IWGP heavy, IWGP IC, WWE, Dream Gate, and maybe ROH or Triple Crown but I would argue for NEVER.

 

It seems like a real stretch to say the NEVER championship is stronger championship than the ROH title.

 

To me, a strong title makes a match between two wrestlers more anticipated/bigger than it would have been without the title involved. Beyond that, the title should be relatively protected, booked as being highly sought after, well positioned on cards, ect. I get the impression that the Naito/Ishii matches were viewed as big matches because of the wrestlers and would have been viewed the same without the NEVER title. Now that Ishii is the champion again, I am hard pressed to think of a future Ishii match that will be enhanced by the NEVER title being in the line. Maybe against a junior of maybe Honma since Honma going after a title and possibly winning would be a big deal. While the NEVER title is treated as an important low card title, it is still positioned as a low card title. It was an afterthought when Naito was holding it while chasing the IWGP title. I think the Yujiro reign was perfectly fine as a means to an end but "strong" titles tend to not get used in that fashion. I do like that they had the Yujiro title win headline a Korakuen show.

 

If ROH has done one thing right over the last years, it is that they've kept their title strong even without many good options for title holders. It's not even an insult to NJPW booking or anything since we are comparing a low level title in ine promotion to the main title in another, but I don't think the two are comparable.

 

On Meltzer's Tokyo Dome main event booking comment, I don't necessarily disagree but the timing of his comment is odd. I think most people thought they were going to get to Okada/Nakamura at the Dome by having one win the G1 and the other besting Styles after getting a G1 win against him set iup the title switch. When they didn't, it seemed clear that Tanahashi/Okada was most likely direction. Seems like sort if a delayed reaction to a booking decision that was made months ago. Nakamura's Dome opponent will go a long way un determining how iffy of a decision it was to not save Okada/Nakamura for 1/4.

[pantherwagner]

 

Probably a year or so ago, Dave had a valid tangent about how WWE wrestlers were being scripted to say words that no one over 7 would say, like "wiener" and "caca". But yes, that criticism stood out to me as well in this weeks issue.

 

I laughed out loud at "caca" when Alberto used that last year, came off hilariously over the top being unusual to hear on WWE tv.

 

 

I don't remember Alberto using it but Santino using it was one of those moments that made you go "and this is why ad rates for WWE programming are never going to be good".

[MJH]

I'd be in favour of scripted promos (certainly with some people) hypothetically, but the WWE wouldn't get a sniff of the level of scriptwriter for whom I'd be supportive of the idea... it's not as if great dramatic monologues (and those who are able to pen them) have ever been in major supply, nor someone able to churn them out with, what?, several hours notice at best.

[Loss]

Worse than the scripted promos is the other guy being obligated to stand there silent while the other guy finishes his long-winded point. That's not how conversations between people who have a beef typically go. Dusty tried to do something more natural with Stephanie last year and got heat for it. Wrestlers need to be more active in the scripting process and overrule things they don't like. I get the feeling most guys in WWE are far too afraid for their jobs to take any chances or speak up when presented with something they know isn't any good. After reading Jericho's books, WWE doesn't seem like a place to fire people for making suggestions to improve their promos.

[MJH]

That's an issue with the scripting of the interviews rather than the interviews being scripted though; there's obviously nothing stopping someone writing a promo duel that has interjections every other syllable (other than it would tire quickly). You could have scripted any great promo of the past - many of Jake's and Arn's read as if scripted, actually, and we know of Rock carrying a tape recorder around with him and nobody truly improvises, jazz musicians always fall back on prepared licks, etc. Laying out a match in advance can breed, in the right hands, a more coherent, better structured one. In the right hands being the operative phrase there - we've all seen countless awful indy matches/sequences where it's all too apparent... but you've also got the great All Japan matches, y'know? There's no reason why, with a talented writer, or writers, and giving them time to write the scripts to the best possible quality, you can't be giving Renee Young reason to name-drop Longfellow after every segment she's in.

[Loss]

I think there are very few people in wrestling talented enough to make scripted material sound organic, so the whole concept is forcing many wrestlers who are naturally charismatic or relatable people to work against their strengths. The more accurate description of WWE Creative is that writers don't write to get wrestlers over. Instead, writers write to get the value of writers over. With the difference in resources, promos winged in the moment from companies running on a shoestring budget 30-35 years ago should not be better than promos today. Yet they are. Why? It's entrenched in WWE, but in theory, Creative should be something that helps wrestlers get over the hump, not something they have to overcome in order to reach the top.

[Strummer]

Dusty getting heat and getting taken off TV for giving the "talk to the hand" sign to Stephanie was so so lame. The company comes across so thin skinned in these situations

[EvenStevenBooking]

Dusty getting heat and getting taken off TV for giving the "talk to the hand" sign to Stephanie was so so lame. The company comes across so thin skinned in these situations

They took him off because the angle ended. He was there to petition the Authority to let his sons back on the roster. The Rhodes got their jobs back at Battleground and the tag titles the night after. Why would he hang around afterwards?

 

And I know it's old/cliche/worn out, but my God was Bryan annoying during the RAW review. He claimed that Sheamus' finisher was killed because Tyson Kidd had to get right up after being hit with it on the floor. The move he used was Finlay's rolling firemen's carry. A move he's never pinned anyone with ever. They shit on Triple H putting over Ziggler because Rollins had him beat, completely ignoring the fact that Noble and Mercury were the ones who set up the finish. I agree that beating him on Smackdown was stupid, but not sure how a guy getting screwed over negates the heel manager/authority figure putting him over. Especially since Rollins beat Orton clean later in the night, but had to cheat against Dolph. He also somehow confused Xavier Woods with Elijah Burke, someone who hasn't worked with the company in six years.

 

Dave was kind of obnoxious too. Mocking Henry not being able to carry anyone and pulling a Bryan by loudly and annoyingly exclaiming Johnny Ace doesn't know wrestling because he hired Tatanka after he had a match with Kurt Angle. He also suggested that Orton probably should have won the match with Rollins since they beat him down after the match despite always bitching about how doing stuff like that never helps anyone.

[Strummer]

I'm pretty sure it was reported that Dusty got major heat for going off script during their dueling promos and then putting his hand in Steph's face. Then they decided to not use him anymore. Maybe he wasn't going to be a regular but they didn't use him at the Old School Raw or any of the legend segments they do once in awhile

[shakla]

Plus, wasn't Dusty set to have a knee replacement not too long after this? I remember Dave saying something about it at that point since Dusty had noticeably lost some weight.