Comments that don't warrant a thread 2010-2011

[kjh]

Well, what do you expect when your new COO Joe Koff is basically a territorial wrestling fan. I'm not saying that's necessarily a bad thing, just that the syndication model that ROH has seems terribly outdated and I'm sceptical that they can make it work in this day and age.

 

Edit: I think this should answer your promo question sek -

[Kostka]

Thanks everyone for the Savage/Tito stuff. I'll have something to read tonight when I get home.

[Mad Dog]

I love Cornette but man he's on something if he thinks RoH can compete with that kind of television format.

[Ditch]

I love Cornette but man he's on something if he thinks RoH can compete with that kind of television format.

It's about profit not competition.

[kjh]

I love Cornette but man he's on something if he thinks RoH can compete with that kind of television format.

It's about profit not competition.

 

They're owned by a TV company, so in this case ratings may be more important than profitability. But if we're talking about profitability I don't know where they'll recoup the cost of producing TV. They're probably already at the upper limit of the potential of iPPV at the moment, as the average fan isn't going to have a Roku box or want to sit in front of their computer for four hours. Both WWE and TNA are struggling to draw for their house shows at the moment. The markets they're planning to expand into don't feel like a good fit for their product. Indeed, they heavily promoted their first show in Charlotte and only drew 800 fans, much worse than they hoped for.

[rovert]

Seriously check the art work out here, guys

http://www.thedeadwrestlersociety.com/

[El-P]

Seriously check the art work out here, guys

http://www.thedeadwrestlersociety.com/

Some really fine work there indeed. Love Earthquake, Sherri, Big Boss Man. Kerry is goofy as hell, but it suits him. Yokozuna is quite great.

 

But The Sheik is AWESOME.

[Matt D]

Anyone see Rollins vs Ambrose from the last FCW TV show?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvnVyTj4wOM...feature=related

 

30 min iron man match. I'm really not THAT familiar with either guy. I think Moxley/Ambrose tries a little too hard, but at least he stands out as something different from all the other guys. And Rollins/Black seems to be a lot of what I wouldn't like about wrestling the last few years.

 

That said, I liked the first 27 mins or so of this decently enough. They sold and slowed things down. The storytelling for the first ten minutes was good. The first set of falls were really good, sort of the Rude-Jumps-Off-The-Top-Rope fall from his Iron Man Match but even more organic to the storytelling of the match.

 

I won't spoil the end but there was a submission that didn't seem to fit the match, even if it was executed well, and too much finisher stealing, and then

way way too much burst of energy/no-selling towards the end.

 

Also, Dusty looks so old.

[Mad Dog]

I love Cornette but man he's on something if he thinks RoH can compete with that kind of television format.

It's about profit not competition.

 

That goes hand in hand though. You're trying to convince fans to devote another hour of their tv watching to them. Giving them a product that's almost 30 years out of date isn't the best way to bring in those viewers.

[cm funk]

Jim Cornette is way, way out of touch and I wouldn't trust him to be my latex salesman

 

That said, I think ROH has a chance with Sinclair. I listened to the Alvarez podcast with the CEO guy, and he's a big fan of wrestling who has a realistic idea of what it is and what it is capable of doing money wise

[FLIK]

Listened to the Cornette show this mourning, basic gist of most of the highlights regarding the tv/companies future were

 

- straight forward ROH style wrestling mixed in with a few angles, and a lot of promos and profile videos to get you interested in the wrestlers/matches.

- mostly going to let the wrestlers personalities speak for themselves and not going to ask them to "tone things down" in ring wise

- had the 1st set of tapings in Chicago because it's an ROH hotbed and they got 1000 or so fans but there were some technical issues with the building which caused the show to run long

- having the the next 2 sets of tapings at the OVW arena because they know they won't have as many tech issues

- taping the shows at diffrent locations after that

- waiting a few months to see what locations they get the highest ratings in and slowly exspanding into those areas

- not going into areas they don't think they can draw well in just because they've got tv thear

- having the wrestlers do local media & promotional aperances for businesses in between shows

- encoraging guys who aren't doing stuff like that to take outside bookings & stuff like Japan tours

- planing to bring in Japan stars after they've got their own talent more established to the tv audiance

- Exsanding the schedule to 3 or 4 shows per month as the year goes on.

 

All seems pretty reasonable & modern to me, not sure how people are getting this "they want it to be like 1970's wrasslin" gloom and doom vibe off the interview myself.

[jdw]

From Dave:

 

9. Kenta Kobashi & Keiji Muto beat Takashi Iizuka & Toru Yano in 14:58. This got the best reactions on the show but was also sad to watch. Kobashi was the star of the show coming out, but looked so unhealthy, he was shaking and had a blank look in his eyes. Muto was over as well, but not like Kobashi. It was about the only kind of match they could do, where Iizuka and Yano mostly choked them and had them sell most of the way. Yano pulled out scissors but Kobashi rammed his hand into the post so he dropped them. Iizuka hit Kobashi in the back with a chair. Muto did a bad looking shining wizard on Yano. More choking on Muto. Iizuka used a pedigree on Kobashi for a near fall. He then put on the iron fingers. Iizuka went to nail Kobashi, who ducked and gave him a German suplex. Yano then hit Kobashi with a chair. The match itself was bad but the finish was perfect, if not painful. Muto slammed Yano and hit the moonsault. He then told Kobashi to do the same thing, and he slammed Iizuka and pinned him after a moonsault. It hurt just watching his land. *1/2

 

Anyone see this yet. That "shaking and had a blank look in his eyes" is frightening to see Dave write, because even with Flair's bad apprearance last week, he didn't go that far.

 

John

[rovert]

From Dave:

 

9. Kenta Kobashi & Keiji Muto beat Takashi Iizuka & Toru Yano in 14:58. This got the best reactions on the show but was also sad to watch. Kobashi was the star of the show coming out, but looked so unhealthy, he was shaking and had a blank look in his eyes. Muto was over as well, but not like Kobashi. It was about the only kind of match they could do, where Iizuka and Yano mostly choked them and had them sell most of the way. Yano pulled out scissors but Kobashi rammed his hand into the post so he dropped them. Iizuka hit Kobashi in the back with a chair. Muto did a bad looking shining wizard on Yano. More choking on Muto. Iizuka used a pedigree on Kobashi for a near fall. He then put on the iron fingers. Iizuka went to nail Kobashi, who ducked and gave him a German suplex. Yano then hit Kobashi with a chair. The match itself was bad but the finish was perfect, if not painful. Muto slammed Yano and hit the moonsault. He then told Kobashi to do the same thing, and he slammed Iizuka and pinned him after a moonsault. It hurt just watching his land. *1/2

 

Anyone see this yet. That "shaking and had a blank look in his eyes" is frightening to see Dave write, because even with Flair's bad apprearance last week, he didn't go that far.

 

John

 

I can link to it here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ucsu29213E

 

Dave was somewhat harsh but it is what it is.

 

It was the uneasy part of a feel good show overall.

[NintendoLogic]

Man, Kobashi looks like shit. But his theme is still awesome. There was a post by I think Johnny Sorrow about how the Godfather should have just come out with his hos, done a lap around the ring, and headed on to the back. That's pretty much where I'm at with Kobashi now. He should come out to Grand Sword, bow to the audience, and walk on back.

 

Also, that match really needed Dusty Rhodes on commentary. HE'S GOT AN UMBRELLA!

[Bix]

Kobashi was walking like late '80s Andre at points there. He wasn't quite as unhealthy looking as Dave made it sound but boy did he not look good.

 

Muto is at the point where I figure he has to be on a potentially fascinating drug cocktail to still have the speed and explosiveness he has in some spots. Kobashi and Undertaker move slow when not hitting their "how the hell can he do that on those knees/hips" spots, while Muto is still able to look athletic.

[Sean Liska]

Muto looked 20 years younger in that match than when I saw him in person at WrestleReunion last year. He looked significantly younger than I remember him being in 2003. I have no idea what got into him.

[smkelly]

Seriously check the art work out here, guys

http://www.thedeadwrestlersociety.com/

That stuff is awesome, man. Thanks for passing that along. They were incredible. I liked Bam Bam's probably the best, though Savage's was top notch as well, as was The Sheik's. I hope they continue that trend, of both awesomeness and tribute. Some guys that haven't gotten a poster yet will undoubtedly be awesome, Lou Thesz, Pillman, Rude, Gordy, Misawa, Jumbo, Andre, Adonis, Stu, etc.

 

From Dave:

 

9. Kenta Kobashi & Keiji Muto beat Takashi Iizuka & Toru Yano in 14:58. This got the best reactions on the show but was also sad to watch. Kobashi was the star of the show coming out, but looked so unhealthy, he was shaking and had a blank look in his eyes. Muto was over as well, but not like Kobashi. It was about the only kind of match they could do, where Iizuka and Yano mostly choked them and had them sell most of the way. Yano pulled out scissors but Kobashi rammed his hand into the post so he dropped them. Iizuka hit Kobashi in the back with a chair. Muto did a bad looking shining wizard on Yano. More choking on Muto. Iizuka used a pedigree on Kobashi for a near fall. He then put on the iron fingers. Iizuka went to nail Kobashi, who ducked and gave him a German suplex. Yano then hit Kobashi with a chair. The match itself was bad but the finish was perfect, if not painful. Muto slammed Yano and hit the moonsault. He then told Kobashi to do the same thing, and he slammed Iizuka and pinned him after a moonsault. It hurt just watching his land. *1/2

 

Anyone see this yet. That "shaking and had a blank look in his eyes" is frightening to see Dave write, because even with Flair's bad apprearance last week, he didn't go that far.

 

John

 

That doesn't read like a bad match. They're things Jumbo let the youngsters do to him back in the early nineties - take offense, sell, but as the intensity increases, so does Jumbo's offense, which is a better and more over finish. As to what it looked like though, I'll watch it and comment further.

[sek69]

Listened to the Cornette show this mourning, basic gist of most of the highlights regarding the tv/companies future were

 

- straight forward ROH style wrestling mixed in with a few angles, and a lot of promos and profile videos to get you interested in the wrestlers/matches.

- mostly going to let the wrestlers personalities speak for themselves and not going to ask them to "tone things down" in ring wise

- had the 1st set of tapings in Chicago because it's an ROH hotbed and they got 1000 or so fans but there were some technical issues with the building which caused the show to run long

- having the the next 2 sets of tapings at the OVW arena because they know they won't have as many tech issues

- taping the shows at diffrent locations after that

- waiting a few months to see what locations they get the highest ratings in and slowly exspanding into those areas

- not going into areas they don't think they can draw well in just because they've got tv thear

- having the wrestlers do local media & promotional aperances for businesses in between shows

- encoraging guys who aren't doing stuff like that to take outside bookings & stuff like Japan tours

- planing to bring in Japan stars after they've got their own talent more established to the tv audiance

- Exsanding the schedule to 3 or 4 shows per month as the year goes on.

 

All seems pretty reasonable & modern to me, not sure how people are getting this "they want it to be like 1970's wrasslin" gloom and doom vibe off the interview myself.

 

 

I didn't think it was gloom and doom at all, I personally like territory style wrestling. I get SAW wrestling from Tennessee on TV here and I DVR it every week because it's so old-school awesome. I like when it's more or less "two guys don't like each other/want to see who's better and have a match to settle things". Wrestling really isn't all that difficult, and I'm looking forward to watching a show where the oldest guy in the promotion is in his upper 30s.

[El-P]

Kobashi was walking like late '80s Andre at points there. He wasn't quite as unhealthy looking as Dave made it sound but boy did he not look good.

 

Muto is at the point where I figure he has to be on a potentially fascinating drug cocktail to still have the speed and explosiveness he has in some spots. Kobashi and Undertaker move slow when not hitting their "how the hell can he do that on those knees/hips" spots, while Muto is still able to look athletic.

Dave's report was a gross overstatement. That said, Kobashi looked like he could barely do three steps at a time. Looks totally shot. Looks like a guy who need to retire yesterday and nurse his poor body for the rest of his life.

Mutoh is a mystery to me. The guy stopped aging 8 years ago. How can a 48 year old guy with no knee move so quick and do those explosive spots ? 10 years ago if you had told me that by 2010, Misawa and Hash would be dead, Kobashi would be a walking zombi while Mutoh would still do his old spots without missing a beat nor looking awkward, I would not have believed you.

[sek69]

Judging by the ace bandage he had wrapped around his upper thigh, it looked like Kobashi had some sort of hamstring injury. That would certainly explain him walking like that. Not to mention guys with bad knees like his usually end up with pulled hammies from trying to compensate.

[Mad Dog]

Kobashi was walking like late '80s Andre at points there. He wasn't quite as unhealthy looking as Dave made it sound but boy did he not look good.

 

Muto is at the point where I figure he has to be on a potentially fascinating drug cocktail to still have the speed and explosiveness he has in some spots. Kobashi and Undertaker move slow when not hitting their "how the hell can he do that on those knees/hips" spots, while Muto is still able to look athletic.

Dave's report was a gross overstatement. That said, Kobashi looked like he could barely do three steps at a time. Looks totally shot. Looks like a guy who need to retire yesterday and nurse his poor body for the rest of his life.

Mutoh is a mystery to me. The guy stopped aging 8 years ago. How can a 48 year old guy with no knee move so quick and do those explosive spots ? 10 years ago if you had told me that by 2010, Misawa and Hash would be dead, Kobashi would be a walking zombi while Mutoh would still do his old spots without missing a beat nor looking awkward, I would not have believed you.

 

Simple. Mutoh redesigned his offense right when he started to lose a step in his late 30s. He adjusted to a much lower risk offense that didn't require him to leave his feet as much. I mean, his big stuff like the moonsault went away for years and only pops up in big moments. He's really been smart about adjusting to the limitations of age.

[Ditch]

And Mutoh has had lots of minor knee surgeries and never let things go to absolute hell like Kobashi did (repeatedly).

[cm funk]

I haven't seen a Mutoh match since probably 07, but personally I enjoyed his toned down style a lot more than his "prime" stuff.

[kjh]

Jim Cornette is way, way out of touch and I wouldn't trust him to be my latex salesman

 

That said, I think ROH has a chance with Sinclair. I listened to the Alvarez podcast with the CEO guy, and he's a big fan of wrestling who has a realistic idea of what it is and what it is capable of doing money wise.

You know, I had the exact opposite reaction. Like FLIK, I thought Cornette came off quite pragmatical about the whole thing, though I must say his anti-WWE schtick can become a bit tiresome sometimes. Koff, on the other hand, came across like a starry eyed mark.

[rovert]

So far WWE/TNA fans seem bewildered by the match psychology in ROH.

 

I apparently haven't watched much indy wrestling in the last five years because it looked completely nonsensical to me. MMA spots in the same match as some flippy-do stuff doesn't make any fucking sense. Has indy ringwork changed at all since MMA's 'meteoric' rise and the Benoit murders? I'm seeing guys work stiff as hell for an audience of a hundred live and less at home. I know WWE is old fashioned, and pro wrestling itself as a performance is fundamentally old fashioned, but I figured the indy scene would be more forward thinking than just interspersing some armbars in between the brainbusters and package suplexes from the top rope.