Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 3

[EricR]

Looks like it was Angle's peers who really put him over the top. How should this be interpreted?

That modern wrestlers really liked being lumped in and compared in any light with an Olympic champion.

[NintendoLogic]

Can't it be that they genuinely think Angle is a historically great worker? Why do we have to bend over backwards to come up with alternate explanations?

[Timbo Slice]

It's not bending over backwards. The idea is that Angle came in as a "legit" guy, "respected the business" and made it better because he decided to be a part of it. He didn't give shit to anybody during his time in WWE, he absorbed everything he could, that word got around to the boys, and lo and behold, there you have it.

 

It's not that they genuinely think he's a historically great worker. It's that he's a historically great legit wrestler that did well in the business for himself.

[EricR]

Yeah I've rarely heard other wrestlers praise him for the same stuff other "legendary" workers get praised for. You never hear peers talking about his pacing or match layouts or ability to draw in a crowd. You hear them talk about how quickly he adapted to the sport or how hard he worked. It's not like they're reaching for any sort of compliment to give him, but a lot of compliments they give him would sound like backhanded compliments when applied to other workers.

[Jimmy Redman]

I agree with NL about the extent to which people are avoiding saying "other wrestlers think he's really great". They clearly do, they pretty much all blow the guy. The legit connection is absolutely there, but it's also simply that they like different things in their wrestling compared to most of us and they just really rate the guy. This isn't exactly a secret, or an indictment of anyone, so I don't know why it can't be just stated and accepted.

 

You can even go back to the Meltzer quote (he's said it at least once on the Board so I could dig it up if need be) about how half a dozen of the absolute top guys in the business have told him Angle is the best guy they've ever worked. I think two of them being Jarrett and Austin was implied. Lots of wrestlers think Angle is a great wrestler. That doesn't mean they're right or we have to agree, but they do.

[cm funk]

Angle is one of the toughest, most focused athletes ever. I totally get why he was so respected by his peers. Was the gold medal part of it? Sure, but he came in and backed it up with an intense drive to be the best. When so many people who've spent years in the sport put him over the way they do it's hard to argue with. I don't think he gets fluffed for the wrong reasons. How many stories do you still hear about how tough Meng is? Or how legendary of a drinker Andre was? It's the same with Angle. He's "legit" with his peers for being a badass, a guy who will wrestle through injury, concussions, drug abuse....the whole deal.

 

None of which means he needed to be rushed into the HOF when he was, and I don't think history has been kind to his in-ring style for a number of reasons, but I can at least understand why he gets so much respect

[JerryvonKramer]

Arn looks unusually chubby in that pic.

[ohtani's jacket]

I always disliked that Four Horsemen logo.

[Matt D]

I agree with NL about the extent to which people are avoiding saying "other wrestlers think he's really great". They clearly do, they pretty much all blow the guy. The legit connection is absolutely there, but it's also simply that they like different things in their wrestling compared to most of us and they just really rate the guy. This isn't exactly a secret, or an indictment of anyone, so I don't know why it can't be just stated and accepted.

 

You can even go back to the Meltzer quote (he's said it at least once on the Board so I could dig it up if need be) about how half a dozen of the absolute top guys in the business have told him Angle is the best guy they've ever worked. I think two of them being Jarrett and Austin was implied. Lots of wrestlers think Angle is a great wrestler. That doesn't mean they're right or we have to agree, but they do.

Flair loves Brody so much because of his stamina. He could still do spots (or help Flair do his) an hour into a match, or something like that.

[BruiserBrody]

http://culturecrossfire.com/wrestling/wres...4/#.Up3yoeLlcTB

 

Why wasn't the world title match put on last?

 

Did Kamala vs Kabuki have a follow up angle? What led to the match? I read elsewhere that this led to Gary Hart being a babyface for the summer.

 

Did anyone find any the the promotion for this tacky when it was first occurring?

 

I'd love to see some Flair promos leading up to this in order to get a feel for how this was promoted given the circumstance.

[NintendoLogic]

So wrestlers voted for Angle because he won a gold medal and sucked up to the right people? Are you guys serious?

[Dylan Waco]

So wrestlers voted for Angle because he won a gold medal and sucked up to the right people? Are you guys serious?

I think only a delusional fanboy would pretend the gold medal had nothing to do with his induction. I do not think it was the only factor, possibly not even the primary one, though I agree with tom's general point that a gold medalists was always going to draw some support and votes from those looking to legitimize their own careers.

[Matt D]

Pretty much. We've lived through this and read countless interviews. I'd put down really good stamina, too, mind you.

 

Angle made wrestling seem more legitimate. Wrestlers, especially the more old-timey ones, live and breathe for that.

[Sidebottom]

Kurt Angle is the only wrestler around today who could handle working Bruise Brody. Because wrestling was a lot tougher back in the day apparently, according to Ric Flair....!

[khawk20]

I think guys like Angle (but moreso a guy like Ray Stevens) sort of fall into a category all their own when it comes to how their peers remember and rate them. There may just be something about them in the ring that you have to experience for yourself in the context of being a pro wrestler to "get".

 

Just a thought. Sometimes "You weren't there, you wouldn't understand" makes sense depending on how you look at it. How these guys are rated by their peers, Stevens especially, might be the best examples of it where it shouldn't be taken in a condescending manner (like 99% of the similar references we've all encountered reading and interacting with old-time workers), it's just correct.

[Bix]

[Guest TheGreatPuma]

Angle's gold medal is part of him. It is part of who he is, his real life personality. Every wrestler, intentionally, partly intentionally or not intentionally takes their real life persona into the ring. The crowd connects with wrestlers who can do this, who believe in what they're doing. Angle's real life persona is winning the gold medal in the Olympics at a sport that may be the toughest sport in the world. A sport that Navy Seals will tell you that the toughest people come out of. This speaks volumes about who he is and what his personality is.

 

Your personality and the way audience perceives you in their thoughts/emotions dictates how great of a wrestler you are inside that ring. It is absolutely crucial. Angle even to people who aren't familiar with how tough amateur wrestling truly is knows that this guy is a real deal, super athletic driven best in the world at what he does type of person. And his in ring actions inside the ring further exemplify this to the crowd. The crowd knows he is legit and the more they see him, the more this point is going to be driven home. It makes his matches better than if some man made human robot were doing the exact same things move by move because the crowd buys into the person. And Angle MADE that person so all the more credit to him for that. The gold medal should and does make him a better wrestler because it makes the audience connect with Angle more emotionally and believably. One can't say oh he's only so great because he's a gold medalist" -- that's similar thinking to saying the Macho Man is only so great because he's intense -- To complain that it's not fair that x and y think Angle is terrific only because he has a gold medal and if he didn't he would only be perceived as .... and he should only be judged like someone else would be if they didn't have a medal is not fair. You can't separate the two.

If anyone thinks it's an unfair adavantage than let them go out and win their gold medals. Angle did, it became part of his real life persona and just like other greats from the Macho Man to Andre the Giant used real life in their persoanlities to make himself a better wrestling personality and hence a stronger connection with the audience leading to better matches than if robots did them. All the more power to him for that. If he makes that connection with voters for that, even more power to him.

[Matt D]

WWF @ Springfield, IL - Convention Center - October 26, 1992 (4,500; 3,300 paid)

Television taping:

Included an untelevised podium interview with Jimmy Garvin who insulted Randy Savage & the Ultimate Warrior and predicted all the heels to win at Survivor Series

 

What the heck was this about?

 

EDIT: Ah, I found this (http://wccw2001.tripod.com/id11.html)

 

JG:I only said ten words to Vince. I dont like him and he dont like me. Vince asked me in 1992 to tryout. Ive been in the business so long I didn't have to tryout. I was always a rebel,a outlaw. It was a stage in my life and it wasn't my life. I went to the WWE one time to vist and see friends. He never called me back. Thats because I looked at him and he looked at me and he knew we wouldn't get along. They asked me to change my name. What about Doc Hendrix? Who the hell was that. That was bullshit. I never had to kiss ass too much. We all have to kiss ass within reason. Tell me to change my name "Go fuck yourself"! All the NWA went up North and worked for Vince. Dusty wore polka-dot trunks. Ronnie Garvin with 2X4,Michael Hayes become Doc Hendrix. I wasn't gonna change my name.

[Dooley]

Just reading Meltzer's Pillman obit and he mentions off-handedly that George Scott was forced out as WWF booker after losing a power play with Hogan. Can someone explain to me what exactly happened there?

[soup23]

Anybody that would be interested in doing a 2014 WWE PPV picks contest, please PM me as I am in the process of setting up a group.

[Coffey]

Why is a professional wrestling ring sometimes referred to as a "squared circle?"

 

I tried looking it up online & found a few different answers, none of which were answered as facts or with any confidence. Hard to take an answer that starts with "I think" seriously, ya know? I figured this was as good a place as any to ask.

 

I've read both the answers of "because a literal ring is a circle but a wrestling ring is a square" & "because of amateur wrestling taking place in a circle."

[Loss]

The ring is shaped like a square, but if you notice, most action takes place within an imaginary circle in the middle of the ring, or at least it has traditionally. If you think about how wrestlers usually lock up (even though it's been years since I've seen a really good lock-up) and where most of the action took place, wrestlers tended to circle each other before locking up.

[bradhindsight]

Just noted this today - Diesel's win over Bob Backlund in 1994 was announced as a No DQ, no count-out, NO SUBMISSION (kind of his thing), pinfall-only match.

 

Geez, way to give the champ a kayfabe chance.

[bradhindsight]

Anybody that would be interested in doing a 2014 WWE PPV picks contest, please PM me as I am in the process of setting up a group.

For $$$ too

[Sidebottom]

The ring is shaped like a square, but if you notice, most action takes place within an imaginary circle in the middle of the ring, or at least it has traditionally. If you think about how wrestlers usually lock up (even though it's been years since I've seen a really good lock-up) and where most of the action took place, wrestlers tended to circle each other before locking up.

I always figured it would just be the former example, of the ring / square dynamic.