Comments that don't warrant a thread - Part 3

[tlk23]

- It is said that there were several people who were displeased backstage about the decision to have Undertaker lose to Brock Lesnar at WrestleMania 30, but were not able (and won't) say anything publicly about it.

- The decision to end the streak was reportedly made by Vince McMahon, not Undertaker. There are some who were "in the know" who say that Vince had to talk Undertaker into it, while others say he went along with it without argument.

- Regarding who knew ahead of time that the Streak was ending, it is certain that Vince McMahon, Brock Lesnar, Undertaker and Paul Heyman knew, and possibly Triple H and Stephanie McMahon. Beyond that, it is difficult to say. No finish was listed on the script but that isn't unusual and it wasn't the only one for the PPV. None of the agents reportedly knew.

- Those who saw Undertaker backstage at Raw said that he had a heavy limp and looked to be "in rough shape."

- The referee in the Brock Lesnar vs. Undertaker match didn't know the end result. The Wrestling Observer Newsletter reports that Chad Patton was actually informed ahead of the match that Undertaker would win, but complied with the rule given to all WWE referees. That rules is that if a wrestler does not kick out, you go ahead and finish with the three count as if it were exactly what was planned.The site also reports that Lesnar privately whispered "thank you" to Undertaker immediately following the three count to express his gratitude for the honor of breaking the Streak.

Credit: Wrestling Observer Newsletter

[(BP)]

I remember that ref rule causing heat on a diva for forgetting to kick out and jobbing when she was supposed to go over at a house show. I can't remember who it was or the exact circumstances.

[fakeplastictrees]

Thoughts on Warrior's WCW run? I remember at the time that Warrior showing up was just another reason why WWE was a better product. WCW was pulling out all the stops to bring in anyone who was a huge star in WWE pre 1995 and I hated it quite frankly. I wanted to see the new guys. I remember their Halloween Havoc match being pretty bad and the criss-cross-the-ropes spot was met with a big boo by the crowd. The spot was never really over and IIRC, again the network will assist, that spot was boo'd when Hogan/Warrior decided to do it in the 1991 Royal Rumble. Why they decided to do it years later when the audience was more educated and in the era of Austin, Rock, and DX is only something those two and the agent of the match will know.

 

Aside from the Hogan rematch, that no one was asking for, what type of mileage could have been gotten out of an Ultimate Warrior run? I feel like he began to overstay his welcome with the crowd toward the end of his run. Thoughts? Also, who was used better in WCW: Bret Hart or The Ultimate Warrior?

 

 

Back to questions not worthy of a full thread. I asked this early but didn't see an answer: does anyone know the origin of US indy workers yelling their opponents them while they charge at them in the corner? I know I've heard it on WWE/NXT a few times but every indy show I go to has it in spades.

 

The earliest I can remember is ROH circa 2002-2003. This was the era where everyone wore their influence on their sleeve and was very on-the-nose on who they were cribbing. While I never enjoy a wrestling calling out their finisher, I understand why indy workers did/do it. Hitting different towns every night without the benefit of TV means that the wrestlers have to re-introduce their shit. Undertaker can make the sign for the tombstone and the arena will pop because they have seen on Raw, Smackdown, PPVs, etc. Joe Blow indy worker doesn't have that same benefit. The yelling while charging most likely began around the same time as indy workers began channeling their 'fighting spirit' and felt it added to the intensity of the match. A charge in the corner is one thing. Adding a point and yell to it makes the match come off as more personal and heated than it real is and also provides an extra cube of sugar to the 'new-night-new-town' narrative the guys are forced to tell.

 

So yes, I blame the super indy of the early 2000's ROH for making it a staple.The real question is why is it done on NXT in 2014? Maybe because the majority of guys there are rookies, it slides. I don't know. I do know however that it most likely will not be tolerated on the main roster without HHH dressing the wrestler who decides to relive his favorite AJPW 91 moments on national TV.

[Johnny Sorrow]

- There are some who were "in the know" who say that Vince had to talk Undertaker into it, while others say he went along with it without argument.

 

Well, that settles that. Lol

[flyonthewall2983]

I'd like to believe they led Paul Heyman to believe that Taker would go over. His reaction is so ecstatic it's actually kind of heart-warming to watch.

[fakeplastictrees]

What reason would someone outside of Vince, Taker, Lesnar, the ref, and possibly Heyman need to know? Not being snarky, I'm just actually curious. This isn't a Vince Russo working the boys type of thing. This isn't Bischoff trying to work a few people backstage into believing something that in the grand scheme of things is completely meaningless. This was/is pretty fucking big. So why would Joe Blow Cupcake Guy need to know Undertaker is taking a hit at Mania?

[Steenalized]

 

The earliest I can remember is ROH circa 2002-2003. This was the era where everyone wore their influence on their sleeve and was very on-the-nose on who they were cribbing. While I never enjoy a wrestling calling out their finisher, I understand why indy workers did/do it. Hitting different towns every night without the benefit of TV means that the wrestlers have to re-introduce their shit. Undertaker can make the sign for the tombstone and the arena will pop because they have seen on Raw, Smackdown, PPVs, etc. Joe Blow indy worker doesn't have that same benefit. The yelling while charging most likely began around the same time as indy workers began channeling their 'fighting spirit' and felt it added to the intensity of the match. A charge in the corner is one thing. Adding a point and yell to it makes the match come off as more personal and heated than it real is and also provides an extra cube of sugar to the 'new-night-new-town' narrative the guys are forced to tell.

 

So yes, I blame the super indy of the early 2000's ROH for making it a staple.The real question is why is it done on NXT in 2014? Maybe because the majority of guys there are rookies, it slides. I don't know. I do know however that it most likely will not be tolerated on the main roster without HHH dressing the wrestler who decides to relive his favorite AJPW 91 moments on national TV.

Thanks, that helps. I've also noticed wrestlers saying 'You're going to die', 'die', or some variation of that with or without the other guys name. I can see it working the first time around and in the context you're talking about. Now it comes across as cheesy.

[efrim]

 

 

The earliest I can remember is ROH circa 2002-2003. This was the era where everyone wore their influence on their sleeve and was very on-the-nose on who they were cribbing. While I never enjoy a wrestling calling out their finisher, I understand why indy workers did/do it. Hitting different towns every night without the benefit of TV means that the wrestlers have to re-introduce their shit. Undertaker can make the sign for the tombstone and the arena will pop because they have seen on Raw, Smackdown, PPVs, etc. Joe Blow indy worker doesn't have that same benefit. The yelling while charging most likely began around the same time as indy workers began channeling their 'fighting spirit' and felt it added to the intensity of the match. A charge in the corner is one thing. Adding a point and yell to it makes the match come off as more personal and heated than it real is and also provides an extra cube of sugar to the 'new-night-new-town' narrative the guys are forced to tell.

 

So yes, I blame the super indy of the early 2000's ROH for making it a staple.The real question is why is it done on NXT in 2014? Maybe because the majority of guys there are rookies, it slides. I don't know. I do know however that it most likely will not be tolerated on the main roster without HHH dressing the wrestler who decides to relive his favorite AJPW 91 moments on national TV.

Thanks, that helps. I've also noticed wrestlers saying 'You're going to die', 'die', or some variation of that with or without the other guys name. I can see it working the first time around and in the context you're talking about. Now it comes across as cheesy.

 

Man, every time I've seen Davey Richards yell "DIE!" and charge (every time I've seen him), I just wish I had a glass bottle in my hand to throw at him. Complete pet peeve of mine, can't stand it.

[Strummer]

maybe I'm off here but doesn't WWE usually do the UK tapings a few weeks after Mania? They aren't until mid May this year. I don't remember them ever being that late

[Timbo Slice]

I thought they started doing it after Extreme Rules once that became the April PPV.

[Loss]

People talk about Danielson vs Morishima being a prototype for what a Brock vs Bryan match might look like. However, I noticed they faced each other quite a few times in ROH. Which match is it specifically that people love so much? I want to check it out.

[WingedEagle]

I don't recall the date offhand, but if it helps, check out the one where Danielson's eye is injured.

[Graham Crackers]

People talk about Danielson vs Morishima being a prototype for what a Brock vs Bryan match might look like. However, I noticed they faced each other quite a few times in ROH. Which match is it specifically that people love so much? I want to check it out.

8/25/2007

[Timbo Slice]

That and the Final Battle Fight Without Honor are pretty incredible matches. The pipe dream for many is Bryan having an Extreme Rules match with Brock along the same lines of the Final Battle match. You know, without the detached retina and all.

[Steenalized]

 

People talk about Danielson vs Morishima being a prototype for what a Brock vs Bryan match might look like. However, I noticed they faced each other quite a few times in ROH. Which match is it specifically that people love so much? I want to check it out.

8/25/2007

 

Do you mean 8/24 at the Hammerstein ballroom? That's where he hurts his eye. That match is freakin' nuts, Danielson made it believable that he could take out Morishima.

 

EDIT: Nevermind, it was the 25th

[BillThompson]

Battlebowl '93, Booker T's inability to not laugh when Vader gets selected to team with Cactus Jack and absolutely kills Rip Rogers simply for being present is pretty great stuff.

[SteveJRogers]

I'd like to believe they led Paul Heyman to believe that Taker would go over. His reaction is so ecstatic it's actually kind of heart-warming to watch.

Seemed like a big breaking character moment.

[RazorbladeKiss87]

Quick question: Why doesn't ROH sell dvds of their pre-2008 shows? They include matches from them on their comp dvds but I'm on a nostalgia kick and want the full shows.

[anarchistxx]

Weird how most of the shows/matches never showed up online, either. Are ROH really strict with taking videos down? Regretting selling most of mine, guessing they are worth a fair bit now. Only DVDs I kept were Joe vs Punk II, MX Reunion and All Star Extravaganza II. Didn't even make copies of the others, figured I wouldn't watch any wrestling again at the time.

[DR Ackermann]

Back in the day, did AWA fans know that Vern Gagne was also the owner of the company or was he just seen as the top star? What about AJPW with Baba and NJPW with Inoki?

[Stiva]

Quick question: Why doesn't ROH sell dvds of their pre-2008 shows? They include matches from them on their comp dvds but I'm on a nostalgia kick and want the full shows.

 

I guess they're out of print, so to speak. Or Vince is about to snap them up for his Bryan and Punk DVDs

[sek69]

What reason would someone outside of Vince, Taker, Lesnar, the ref, and possibly Heyman need to know? Not being snarky, I'm just actually curious. This isn't a Vince Russo working the boys type of thing. This isn't Bischoff trying to work a few people backstage into believing something that in the grand scheme of things is completely meaningless. This was/is pretty fucking big. So why would Joe Blow Cupcake Guy need to know Undertaker is taking a hit at Mania?

 

 

It's not the cupcake guy who needs to know, it's the audio techs who need to know what theme to play or the graphic people to put up the 22-0 or 21-2 graphic based on who wins.

 

I got the impression JBL either knew or figured it out based on how hard he was being told to push the "Taker's going out on his shield" aspect, but it seemed Cole and Lawler were legit shocked at the finish. Cole especially had a tone that was part "WTF" and part incredulous.

[Dylan Waco]

There were people in production who knew.

[Al]

Given the delay in playing Lesnar's music, etc., I wouldn't be surprised if it was kept secret from more people than usual. In the bigger picture though, the only people with exact knowledge as to how the booking decision played out are Vince and Taker. And they don't seem like the type to leak to the sheets.

[flyonthewall2983]

I think they delayed the music so the home audience could hear the reaction of the crowd to the pinfall.