Loss Posted June 20, 2012 Author Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 One point where I do agree is that Tony seemed to have a genuine affection for the big stars of the Mid Atlantic/JCP era. The Flair bond always came through on commentary, and Steamboat and the Rock & Rolls are two others who probably fall in that category. Really, that's where Tony and David shined -- Magnum, Windham, the Rock & Rolls and whatever other top babyfaces always felt like wrestlers where when David Crockett talked about them, the fandom was a shared experience. I am doing a crappy job of explaining that, but it's a difficult thing to put into words. Both the hardcores and casuals were excited about those guys at the time, so it played to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 So at work today at the nursing home, I was gathering residents for a group activity. I went and got two elderly ladies who are both ambulatory. I was kinda dancing down the hallway to get a laugh and one of them said, "Oh I wish I could still do that." So I quickly showed them a certain way of walking. And then two old ladies and I Fargo Strutted down the hallway in front of a ton of staff and various other people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 So at work today at the nursing home, I was gathering residents for a group activity. I went and got two elderly ladies who are both ambulatory. I was kinda dancing down the hallway to get a laugh and one of them said, "Oh I wish I could still do that." So I quickly showed them a certain way of walking. And then two old ladies and I Fargo Strutted down the hallway in front of a ton of staff and various other people. Awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 I agree with Vic that Tony was generally listenable and didn't really detract from matches much until his final years. That said, there is a very low ceiling to what he brought to a match when he actually did bring something, and a very, very deep basement to what he could take away from a match when things went wrong with him. He did have flashes of greatness that suggest that he could have been much better than he was, but from everything I can gather, he just didn't care that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Just watched the Hogan vs Bossman 89 cage match from MSG a few nights ago and I thought Tony was pretty good here (as was Lord Al surprisingly enough), and I usually find him out of place in a WWF setting. For me, the downfall of Tony, and WCW announcing in general, was when endless discussion of the NWO infected every undercard match on Nitro and PPV to the point where it was beyond overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Wrestling vs Twitter II Mike Johnson: TNA filed a lawsuit on Monday 6/18 in Nashville, TN against Scott Rechsteiner, professionally known as Scott Steiner, stemming from the attacks Steiner has made against the company, Hulk Hogan, Eric Bischoff and Bruce Prichard, among others, via Twitter. In the lawsuit filed in Chancery Court for Davidson County, TNA noted that Steiner signed a contract with the company on 12/23/10 to appear exclusively for the promotion. A copy of that contract, including Steiner's payroll for his appearances ($2000 for events, $2500 for PPV, plus royalties to be paid 90 days later) was filed in court, including: *An agreement that Steiner would not "make any statements or provide information, written, verbal or otherwise, which directly or indirectly disparages or casts in a negatie light any TNA officers, employees, representatives, affiliates, shareholders, licensees and/or past or current TNA talent." *An agreement that Steiner would not use online social media or media appearances to discuss TNA without TNA's prior written consent in each instance. TNA is claiming that Steiner violated the terms of that contract and is currently in breach for his online rants against the company. The company claimed that they contacted him on 5/10/12 asking him to cease the behavior but "Steiner, however, has ignored TNA's demands and has continued to breach the Agreement." TNA is asking that they be allowed to recover their damages as well as court and attorney's fees. They are claiming the breach has caused the company "irreparable harm, which cannot be adequately measured by monetary relief." TNA is also seeking a temporary and permanent injunction from the court to prevent Steiner from continuing to speak out against them. Steiner has yet to respond to the court, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Is Steiner still officially under contract with them? I assume so, but the article doesn't say. Also, it still kinda depresses me that corporate gag orders are somehow considered a good idea in this country. Keeping confidential business secrets is one thing, but NDO's that basically amount to "you're not allowed to say anything about this company, ever" are downright unconstitutional. Tb] A copy of that contract, including Steiner's payroll for his appearances ($2000 for events, $2500 for PPV, plus royalties to be paid 90 days later)[/b] was filed in court, including:Geez, that seems like less than a star of Steiner's level should get. Does each TV taping count as just one "event", or does he get two grand for every episode he showed up on Impact? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 Young Jim Ross was all "Lex Luger was the captain of his little league side and had a 3.78 grade point average and was the top of his under-12 trampoline class" I don't disagree with it... but Ross was a MARK for sports. And grew up listening to sports announcer toss out stuff like that, loved it, and wanted to be the same. It's just Jim. I agree with Jerome that it eventually got annoying as all shit. But it was Jim being Jim. Schiavone was more like "It was 1983, Harley Race and Ric Flair, one steel cage, one title on the line ..." (see his performance for the build to Vader vs. Flair on Starrcade 93) Big match with Flair's career on the line, so he's going to toss out Flair Career Stuff because it's what he's suppose to do. That's my point: Tony does what what he thinks he's suppose to do. None of it is natural. Pop in some random match, and how much history does Tony toss out that isn't cliched or "he's suppose to say it"? Occasionally he'd mention things like all the title reigns of Steamboat going back to the 70s. Or bring up old feuds that two guys had had long ago. JR never had that because he wasn't with the company before 1987. Christ... JR would bring up old shit all the time, like Brisco and the Funks and Race. Aside from Flair and Arn, Tony pretty much WAS WCW's continuity with its JCP past. Except that he didn't really delve into that past a lot. During a US Title match, did he wax about Wahoo vs Johnny Valentine? Slaughter vs Wahoo? In the 90s after Maggie wandered off, how often would he say during a feud over the US Title that this might be headed in the same direction as Maggie vs Tully? And as phony as he could be, I always got the impression that when it came to that stuff, the old NWA shows and that era in general, it was coming from the heart and from real love of that product. His heart started when he started calling the stuff, and even then it was limited. This isn't the first time you've gone on about early Vince, and I need to see more of his stuff from that time, but I fucking love Vince from the SNME era, especially teaming with Jesse. Vince during the SNME era isn't that great. He's not as bad as some made him out to be at the time, but not that great. His role shifted a bit, he was effective at it, but it was more than just pbp at that point. He was promoter of his product, and using his mic for it. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 One point where I do agree is that Tony seemed to have a genuine affection for the big stars of the Mid Atlantic/JCP era. The Flair bond always came through on commentary, and Steamboat and the Rock & Rolls are two others who probably fall in that category. Really, that's where Tony and David shined -- Magnum, Windham, the Rock & Rolls and whatever other top babyfaces always felt like wrestlers where when David Crockett talked about them, the fandom was a shared experience. I am doing a crappy job of explaining that, but it's a difficult thing to put into words. Both the hardcores and casuals were excited about those guys at the time, so it played to everyone. This is *late* JCP Era, largely when they were going / went national. It's Tony's wheelhouse and what he had affection for. But just pull open a title history, look at the major JCP titles in the early 80s and back into the 70s (US Title, World Tag Title, Mid Atlantic Title), and try to figure out how much of that stuff made it into Tony's "history" droppings on the air in the second half of the 80s and in the 90s when he returned from the WWF. His history fell into two areas: * the extremely narrow stuff he loved * what he felt he had to mention On the stuff he loved, it would be a bit like someone going to a college (say USC) and being a big fan of what was happening while you went there (say the 2002-2005 Pete Carroll teams that went 48-4, won three bowls, two national titles, and were runner up in another year). You were a massive fan of it... but stopped following after you graduated and really never cared enough to look up the history. So if someone asks you about USC Heisman Trophy winners, you know all about Carson Palmer & Matt Leinart & Reggie Bush and can reel off a ton of stuff about the guys who won three Heismans in four years (which is wacky awesome when you think about it). Now you can toss out Mike Garrett, OJ Simpson, Charles White and Marcus Allen if you have to... because you know the names. But you didn't care enough about the history to really know much about them, like Garrett & OJ & White winning national titles, Marcus setting the rushing record, etc. In turn, if someone asks him about the 2008 team with Brian Cushing, Rey Maualuga and Clay Matthews anchoring a wicked defense and Mark Sanchez as the QB, he might be lost because he just wasn't paying attention. That's Tony. Just to be clear: That's not a massive knock on Tony. Wrestling in the 80s, 90s, 00s and 10s fucking HATES its history. Vince spent years washing it away and ignoring it. JCP and then WCW has limited care for it. So few of the announcers other than Ross really gave a crap about it to inject it into their match calling. For the most part they did when forced, which is Tony. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chess Knight Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 I've never seen (heard, I guess) Tony to be a guy to bring up history. When Tenay pulls some fact out of his hat Tony would just chime in with "I was there when it happened!" but not really....know anything about it. I watched Judgment Day 2000 yesterday and Ross randomly name drops Dick Murdoch when someone uses a brainbuster. He also called a cross armbreaker a Fujiwara armbar. *boos* Tony definitely gives you more of a vibe that what he's saying about the past is already scribbled on his notes by the WCW Higher-Ups. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artDDP Posted June 20, 2012 Report Share Posted June 20, 2012 For me, Heenan in WCW was never good and never clicked with Schiavone. Like for me, it comes across like they don't like or understand each other. With Ventura, there's a certain amount that Schiavone plays up to his straight man role and a certain amount that you can tell he enjoys Jesse being Jesse. With Heenan, I always got the impression that Heenan was just pissing him off and throwing him off his game. For more on this, see my long Ventura HoF argument from last year, but I think he was twice the colour man Heenan was in WCW. By all accounts, Heenan hated Schiavone. This is Bobby the night he wanted to pay tribute to Gorilla Monsoon on "Nitro" and Tony allegedly fought to veto it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr8lmVxxRhA Oh, and... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyonthewall2983 Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 The time I met Bobby in a record store for an autograph session (in 1999, day before Owen died actually), I asked him what music he listened to and the follow-up was what does Tony like and he made a remark that painted him as a pedophile. So I can confirm how much Bobby didn't care for Schiavone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Michael Cole is pretty much the reason I don't watch Raw or Smackdown. I got the itch to watch last year and I last about 5 minutes before I couldn't take Cole's nonsense anymore. He literally didn't shut up the entire time. I actually agree that David Crockett is better in large doses. If I go away from that time period and come back, I always have an adjustment phase with him. Once I get used to his style again, I enjoy his energy and enthusiasm. I'd like to throw Jay Sulli out there as possibly the worst announcer ever though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chess Knight Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 This is Bobby the night he wanted to pay tribute to Gorilla Monsoon on "Nitro" and Tony allegedly fought to veto it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr8lmVxxRhA Was this before or after that? Anyone know? -- On Cole: Yeah, I watched Raw and how bad he is is actually shocking. Who's idea was it to keep him employed for this long? Probaby the worst non-indy commentator ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Michael Cole is pretty much the reason I don't watch Raw or Smackdown. I got the itch to watch last year and I last about 5 minutes before I couldn't take Cole's nonsense anymore. He literally didn't shut up the entire time.Ditto. Though he varies wildly in how annoying he is from week to week. Sometimes he plays up the heel schtick so much that I can't watch anymore and change the channel; other times, he's much more subdued and it's tolerable, but you never know which one you're gonna get. When he's in full-on heel mode, I literally can't listen to the damn commentary, it's so hideously awful in every way imaginable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 I got a question about Kane. I'm currently watching USWA 1997 and Kane is Doomsday there. He kinda looked like a modern version of Lord Humongus down to the mask. If memory serves me right, the Kane character was first talked about in April 1997 when Glenn Jacobs was still Fake Diesel. Did WWF always plan to have him play Kane or were they thinking about picking someone else? It would have been interesting to see them bring him in as Doomsday instead of Kane. And Justin Credible being named "PG187" as the third member of PG13 doing the same gimmick before he started in ECW was funny. He was dressed like Konnan in the early days of the gimmick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 I remember hearing rumor years ago, that Raven was being considered for the Kane role. Not sure if that is true, but I do remember hearing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 I remember hearing rumor years ago, that Raven was being considered for the Kane role. Not sure if that is true, but I do remember hearing it. No way. Raven went straight from ECW to WCW in 97, and was locked up for several years. Plus Kane was always supposed to be a Taker clone. I think Jacobs was always supposed to get the part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 1997 USWA seems like the most alien thing in the world to me. 1993 still very much felt like Memphis but I just can't imagine that reaching into 1997. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 I guess I'm the only one that read this online in 1997 but Dan Spivey was supposedly in consideration for the Kane character at the time. I swear I'm not making that up. He was already in his mid 40s then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Didn't they send Spivey home from the Waylon Mercy gimmick just a couple years prior because his body was so banged up that he was basically incapable of wrestling anymore? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Yes, Spivey retired in late 1995 because his kness were completely shot. Hell, his knees were shot in the early 90's. There's no way he would have came back in 1998. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hollinger. Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 I am pretty sure that as an Al Isaacs headline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 Talk about a reliable source... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artDDP Posted June 21, 2012 Report Share Posted June 21, 2012 This is Bobby the night he wanted to pay tribute to Gorilla Monsoon on "Nitro" and Tony allegedly fought to veto it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr8lmVxxRhA Was this before or after that? Anyone know? -- On Cole: Yeah, I watched Raw and how bad he is is actually shocking. Who's idea was it to keep him employed for this long? Probaby the worst non-indy commentator ever. Heenan got his Gorilla tribute in moments after the show started and the clip I uploaded was just afterward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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