Fantastic Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 The biggest negative about those two Cena/Lesnar matches was that they completely negated each other. The first established Brock as this monster, unbeatable freak, cementing the Undertaker victory and making it mean something. The Night of Champions match reaffirmed Brock as just another guy who Cena can hang with, and even have beat until he is saved by interference. It isn't even as if they tried to emphasize that Cena had a new strategy that enabled him to go toe to toe. They just worked it like a regular match. Yeah, it was a bit lazy, but it's clear now they were going for a trilogy and therefore needed something to make Cena seem like he has a chance, especially if they are planning on having him lose again - which is probably the likely scenario at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Is the Summerslam match really getting MOTY love? I'd call it a great spectacle that turned into a retrospective disappointment with the follow-up. It seems insane to call it one of the worst matches of the year given how successfully it created the desired effect in the moment. But a classic match? No. I don't quite agree with the idea of NOC negating Summerslam. But WWE really did blow a potentially classic series by running the rematch so quickly and failing to do any special storytelling around Cena searching for new ways to handle Brock. I mean, haven't any of their writers seen Rocky III? This shit isn't that hard. I actually think that when I look back on 2014, their handling of the Summerslam aftermath will go down as my biggest disappointment. They have yet to recapture my interest since, though I imagine that'll change with the Rumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bierschwale Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 Not necessarily "MOTY"-level love, but absolutely as an "MOTYC". For most of them, I really don't think that it's anything more than that they enjoyed seeing Cena land on his neck a bunch of times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted January 2, 2015 Report Share Posted January 2, 2015 The uniqueness is a big factor in its favour, in an environment where you have people like Kane and Dolph Ziggler basically working the same match week after week for years on end. The style has got linear to the point where even good matches fail to stand out because of how predictably they were worked. The Summerslam match subverted all the usual tropes for a main event title match, and was like nothing they had done before. To make it all the more shocking, it was the most protected main eventer since Hulk Hogan who was getting decimated. People were marking out and just to get the frenzied reaction it did makes it worthy of end of year discussions, even if in retrospect it doesn't hold up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 Is the Summerslam match really getting MOTY love? I'd call it a great spectacle that turned into a retrospective disappointment with the follow-up. It seems insane to call it one of the worst matches of the year given how successfully it created the desired effect in the moment. But a classic match? No. I don't quite agree with the idea of NOC negating Summerslam. But WWE really did blow a potentially classic series by running the rematch so quickly and failing to do any special storytelling around Cena searching for new ways to handle Brock. I mean, haven't any of their writers seen Rocky III? This shit isn't that hard. I actually think that when I look back on 2014, their handling of the Summerslam aftermath will go down as my biggest disappointment. They have yet to recapture my interest since, though I imagine that'll change with the Rumble. I couldn't put it in my MOTY list for the simple fact that taken completely out-of-context, its just a guy getting his ass whooped for 10 minutes. The story going into the match is VERY important to the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I couldn't put it in my MOTY list for the simple fact that taken completely out-of-context, its just a guy getting his ass whooped for 10 minutes. Don't see why this disqualifies it. There are a lot of elements that go into making something a MOTYC, not just that the match is competitive and back and forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tim Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 The aftermath completely negated anything special about the Summerslam match. It was played like a parody of a Cena feud written by someone who hates Cena. He comes right out talking about how he'll overcome and get his win back and how he hasn't been demoralized etc etc. Awful. Then he squashes Bray the first night he's back wrestling. Everything about Cena from the moment he got back on TV screamed at the viewer that the Summerslam match was not a special occassion and that nothing at all about Cena or this feud will be different than how any other Cena feud always is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I couldn't put it in my MOTY list for the simple fact that taken completely out-of-context, its just a guy getting his ass whooped for 10 minutes. Don't see why this disqualifies it. There are a lot of elements that go into making something a MOTYC, not just that the match is competitive and back and forth. Totally. It's an amazing Pro Wrestling match. And you can't consider matches "out of context" when rating them. The story is intertwined in wrestling matches and can't be removed. That's like looking at a painting and removing half the colors and then judging it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I think people should evaluate matches however they want. If you need to make an effort to consciously exclude certain factors I'd question the merit of doing so, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 The aftermath completely negated anything special about the Summerslam match. It was played like a parody of a Cena feud written by someone who hates Cena. He comes right out talking about how he'll overcome and get his win back and how he hasn't been demoralized etc etc. Awful. Then he squashes Bray the first night he's back wrestling. Everything about Cena from the moment he got back on TV screamed at the viewer that the Summerslam match was not a special occassion and that nothing at all about Cena or this feud will be different than how any other Cena feud always is. This is one thing that really irritated me about anything WWE has done in a long time. Cena put Bryan over cleanly in that match which im suprised why they didnt save this for a Wrestlemania match but they ruined the whole thing with Orton winning the belt straight away. Every match seemed a screw job ie HBK turning on Bryan which shouldnt have happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 I think people should evaluate matches however they want. If you need to make an effort to consciously exclude certain factors I'd question the merit of doing so, though. That isn't true at all. If I am evaluating a house song I expect it to have a nice groove. If I am evaluating a choral song I can exclude the 'nice groove' factor when rating it. If I am evaluating a piece of ambient instrumental techno I can't complain that it doesn't have a killer chorus or catchy verses like I would with a pop song. Certain factors can certainly be consciously excluded because you want different things from different people. There isn't this set of factors which every match or piece of art has to adhere to. A match has to work well and blow you away in the context it is worked. Look at Undertaker vs Mankind - judge that match of more conventional factors and it doesn't hold up at all. But it is still an incredible spectacle and a far better match than some random Sheamus bout on Raw that has more traditional qualities like good pacing, selling, proper structure, decent build to a back and forth finish with lots of exciting near falls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted January 3, 2015 Report Share Posted January 3, 2015 again on SD the crowd was completely silent for all the Authority stuff. They didn't even sweeten the audio. This just comes off as the company shoving a storyline down the fans throats with no sense of self awareness. I'm getting a Hollywood Hogan/Eric Bischoff late 97/early 98 vibe here. Maybe it changes Monday but I could see the fans sitting on their hands for all of this stuff. I can't even imagine how long the opening promo will be on Raw and how many backstage segments they will have. Probably have the final segment with either Orton or Sting showing up pretty good article at 411 about the whole situation http://411mania.com/wrestling/wwe-is-failing-to-evolve/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fakeplastictrees Posted January 4, 2015 Report Share Posted January 4, 2015 It's pretty sad to watch WWE go completely out-of-its-way to make sure things don't mean anything. Even-stevening booking, John Cena being FIRED and opening up Raw the following week, The Authority being OUT-OF-POWER FOREVER- only to come back a month later, AJ Lee being made the PERMANENT GM- until Vickie, etc. took over, CM Punk 'leaving WWE' after MITB only to return 2 weeks later, etc. WWE constantly rotating writers is also a big problem because you got guys/gals who only know 'evil authority figure' and know Vince/Steph/HHH pops for that shit and so it continues a million times over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 This Ryback promo is dreadful I think I am in minority, but I love Ryback's delivery. He is just so matter of fact. There is no arguing. It is honest, earnest and powerful. I thought it was a little weird for Ryback to be giving the underdog who sacrificed everything promo, but hey Ryback bleeds too, brutha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Wow, Darren Young sighting (I think?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exposer Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Cena-Brock-Rollins triple threat at Rumble just announced. More options on how the title picture will play out now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 This Ryback promo is dreadful I think I am in minority, but I love Ryback's delivery. He is just so matter of fact. There is no arguing. It is honest, earnest and powerful. I thought it was a little weird for Ryback to be giving the underdog who sacrificed everything promo, but hey Ryback bleeds too, brutha. Oh, I had no problem with the content of the promo. Only that he sounded as if he had the script right in front of him and he was reading it word for word like someone from a porn flick. Also, check your facebook messages Sleeze Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Cena-Brock-Rollins triple threat at Rumble just announced. More options on how the title picture will play out now. Gross. Triple threats suck. Cena-Lesnar have had 3 awesome matches and I was excited for the final one. Now they add Rollins who I don't like as a heel into this, which means Triple H interference and this should stink. The ONLY way this is a good idea if they use this to turn Cena heel and steal the title, while Triple H helps Cena win and Rollins goes babyface. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I think the Rollins entry into the match definitely adds fuel to the Cena turning heel fire....which I have never believed would happen but the Rollins deal definitely makes me think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Why would Cena turn heel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 As a match I think Triple Threat will be worse. As a storyline device it at least has potential to be interesting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Why would Cena turn heel? Rollins being added into the match is total angle alert just for what though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 Why would Cena turn heel? Rollins being added into the match is total angle alert just for what though But how does this turn Cena heel? The Authority helps him and Rollins turns face? Brock just stands there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 I sort of see Rollins eating the pin, letting Cena win the belt without Brock losing and then Rollins cashing in post match after Brock destroys Cena. You know, the least interesting possibility and the one that makes everyone look worse than they did coming in. I'm not sure why you guys are seeing more here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted January 6, 2015 Report Share Posted January 6, 2015 That's a good pov Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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