iamthedoctor Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 We already have seen the big elaborate WM celebration for Bryan. I think this WM would be infinitely more interesting if that celebration got cut off by the most ambitious heel in years. I just can't understand people complaining about WWE never doing anything different but then squashing the idea that they break from the big "happy ending" WM formula. Because the Big Happy WrestleMania Ending actually works, and cash-ins aren't anything different at this point. They've had 14 MITB matches in the last ten years, and 11 successful cash-ins coming after a title match and four after a title change. A cash-in would be a heel version of the finish of WM IX that everyone has ridiculed since the moment it happened, except that it wouldn't be a Hogan ego-boost, it'd be a Vince ego-boost. Or a HHH ego-boost, or whoever comes up with it. Would it really have been that bad of a deal had they just let Batista beat Orton in a single match at mania? I know the fans were pissed about the Rumble but thats not really how booking works, WWE decides who goes over not the fans. I know Bryan was popular but they still could have done HHH/Bryan at Mania but Bryan gets a shot at the next PPV. In regards to Wrestlemania 9 I dont see why fans ridiculed it as I loved that ending for that show and they had the fans go home happy. I didnt see anyone in the audience complaining about Hogan walking out with the title, it was a nice suprise for them and they errupted huge. I wouldnt call it a MITB position as Fuji & Yoko challenged Hulk right there and then. Probably one of my fav mania moments. Only thing that bugged me about 93 was 1 Hogan Raw appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Yes. Did you see the Royal Rumble? The fans out and out rejected Batista and they would've completely shit over the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Yes. Did you see the Royal Rumble? The fans out and out rejected Batista and they would've completely shit over the match. Yes and no. No I didnt watch the entire PPV but yes I watched the Rumble match in full because Kofi did some crazy spot on the outside. The only reason they rejected him that I noticed was because he wasent in a condition to wrestle. Ie the Scott Steiner way as in very winded in the match. The stuff that happenned on Twitter was a bit over the top. Could you imagine how it would have been a decade and a half ago had we had Twitter then? The fans would of complained no end over HHH going over at mania 2000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 On this front I'll say you're off base Doc. The build had been to Bryan getting the big push, and when he didn't come out at the Rumble the fans realized he wasn't going to get the big push they rebelled. It's not just the fact that they booed Batista, but they also booed Rey Mysterio, and proceeded to shit all over anything that ran contrary to Bryan being in the main event of Mania until WWE was forced to make Bryan the main event of Mania. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Yes. Did you see the Royal Rumble? The fans out and out rejected Batista and they would've completely shit over the match. Yes and no. No I didnt watch the entire PPV but yes I watched the Rumble match in full because Kofi did some crazy spot on the outside. The only reason they rejected him that I noticed was because he wasent in a condition to wrestle. Ie the Scott Steiner way as in very winded in the match. The stuff that happenned on Twitter was a bit over the top. Could you imagine how it would have been a decade and a half ago had we had Twitter then? The fans would of complained no end over HHH going over at mania 2000. He was rejected because he was the one picked to win the Rumble when everybody wanted Bryan too and not some returning guy who hasn't wrestled in years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Yes. Did you see the Royal Rumble? The fans out and out rejected Batista and they would've completely shit over the match. Yes and no. No I didnt watch the entire PPV but yes I watched the Rumble match in full because Kofi did some crazy spot on the outside. The only reason they rejected him that I noticed was because he wasent in a condition to wrestle. Ie the Scott Steiner way as in very winded in the match. The stuff that happenned on Twitter was a bit over the top. Could you imagine how it would have been a decade and a half ago had we had Twitter then? The fans would of complained no end over HHH going over at mania 2000. if you think that the reason the fans shit on the Rumble last year was because Batista was gassed (and had nothing to do with Bryan) then you really don't understand the current state of WWE at all and should probably stop posting about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Yes. Did you see the Royal Rumble? The fans out and out rejected Batista and they would've completely shit over the match. Yes and no. No I didnt watch the entire PPV but yes I watched the Rumble match in full because Kofi did some crazy spot on the outside. The only reason they rejected him that I noticed was because he wasent in a condition to wrestle. Ie the Scott Steiner way as in very winded in the match. The stuff that happenned on Twitter was a bit over the top. Could you imagine how it would have been a decade and a half ago had we had Twitter then? The fans would of complained no end over HHH going over at mania 2000. if you think that the reason the fans shit on the Rumble last year was because Batista was gassed (and had nothing to do with Bryan) then you really don't understand the current state of WWE at all and should probably stop posting about it Agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 The crowd realized the fix was in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 The crowd really thought Bryan lost the opener to Wyatt because he was going to be in the Rumble, that's why Rey got booed at #30. Then they were hot again when it came down to Reigns and Batista since there was a chance Roman would have won, it was really an "Anyone But Batista" atmosphere. The moment he won the mood immediately switched to "fuck this shit" and everyone let the company know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 The crowd realized the fix was in. I love this because it's true. In today's scene, nobody buys a 6'5", 300 lb guy winning the title. It just exposes the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Should we read anything into this? Cover of the WrestleMania magazine: From https://twitter.com/BrosB4Elbows/status/556494984422379521 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantastic Posted January 18, 2015 Report Share Posted January 18, 2015 Should we read anything into this? Cover of the WrestleMania magazine: From https://twitter.com/BrosB4Elbows/status/556494984422379521 It's clear who they see as the top guys. Not to mention, the fact that Roman is clearly positioned "ahead" of everyone else. I get the feeling Sting has taken Taker's position, maybe because it's his first Wrestlemania, or maybe because they don't know yet whether Taker is going to make an appearance. Brock's on there because he's champ, I doubt they'd put him on there if he wasn't, since there's still a lot of talk and speculation that he's leaving. I'd be willing to bet that WWE will win him over in the end, even if it means some kind of co-deal, where Brock fights for UFC without an exclusive contract per say, and continues to make 3-4 appearances for WWE when not having a fight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Yes. Did you see the Royal Rumble? The fans out and out rejected Batista and they would've completely shit over the match. Yes and no. No I didnt watch the entire PPV but yes I watched the Rumble match in full because Kofi did some crazy spot on the outside. The only reason they rejected him that I noticed was because he wasent in a condition to wrestle. Ie the Scott Steiner way as in very winded in the match. The stuff that happenned on Twitter was a bit over the top. Could you imagine how it would have been a decade and a half ago had we had Twitter then? The fans would of complained no end over HHH going over at mania 2000. He was rejected because he was the one picked to win the Rumble when everybody wanted Bryan too and not some returning guy who hasn't wrestled in years. I almost forgot about Rey. Yes he got booed out of the building and they all cheered for him when he went out. I just saw that as a total disrespect from the fans just because the guy they wanted wasent in the Rumble. What if Bryan had been defending the belt against Orton at the show. Would they still have booed? Mick Foley did over react though smashing his TV up just because of that. Still if you have plenty of cash in the bank I guess you can afford it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 The would not have booed if Bryan was defending the belt, since that would mean he was champ and as such negate the whole point of the booing. Don't forget the title match got shit on just as bad if not worse than the Rumble, to the point Orton had one of his famous temper tantrums. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 This mindset that it's disrespectful for fans to reject a bad idea is something I don't get. If anything, I wish fans in every town held their feet to the fire like that, because it might result in a consistently fantastic WWE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 remember an anonymous WWE worker wrote Meltzer a letter complaining about just that (taking the company's side). Pretty sure everyone thought it was Orton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Yes. Did you see the Royal Rumble? The fans out and out rejected Batista and they would've completely shit over the match. Yes and no. No I didnt watch the entire PPV but yes I watched the Rumble match in full because Kofi did some crazy spot on the outside. The only reason they rejected him that I noticed was because he wasent in a condition to wrestle. Ie the Scott Steiner way as in very winded in the match. The stuff that happenned on Twitter was a bit over the top. Could you imagine how it would have been a decade and a half ago had we had Twitter then? The fans would of complained no end over HHH going over at mania 2000. He was rejected because he was the one picked to win the Rumble when everybody wanted Bryan too and not some returning guy who hasn't wrestled in years. I almost forgot about Rey. Yes he got booed out of the building and they all cheered for him when he went out. I just saw that as a total disrespect from the fans just because the guy they wanted wasent (sic) in the Rumble. What if Bryan had been defending the belt against Orton at the show. Would they still have booed? Mick Foley did over react though smashing his TV up just because of that. Still if you have plenty of cash in the bank I guess you can afford it. How is it "disrespectful" to boo Rey Mysterio? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 It wasn't his fault they made him #30, he was being booed because the crowd was pissed at the company and he happened to be the guy they sent out. It wasn't like he was trying to generate heel heat, he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. He did deserve better, and it really showed even more how out of touch the company was to send him out there like a sacrificial lamb since they obviously didn't think anything bad would happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 It wasn't his fault they made him #30, he was being booed because the crowd was pissed at the company and he happened to be the guy they sent out. It wasn't like he was trying to generate heel heat, he was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. He did deserve better, and it really showed even more how out of touch the company was to send him out there like a sacrificial lamb since they obviously didn't think anything bad would happen. Or they knew something bad would happen but thought Rey was bulletproof, could withstand it, and would never get booed. They miscalculated badly on that one, obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anotherspammer Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Did Meltzer or Keller or anybody ever provide any insight about what the WWE writers were thinking during that period? It seemed shocking how tone-deaf they were to the audience reactions for Bryan, even by WWE standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Bryan was drawing less than John Cena at house shows, selling less merchandise than John Cena and his television segments were lower rated than John Cena's, so they wrote it off as a vocal minority that didn't really represent the WWE fanbase as a whole. What's missed there is that such outcomes were almost entirely the result of self-fulling prophecy. Not to say Bryan would have been a bigger draw than Cena with the right push, but he had enough fan support that they needed to try to do something more with him. Somewhere along the way, their perception changed, probably more because Batista ending WM as the champ wasn't going to work than anything else. That's my theory. Just imagine Batista going over at the end of the same show where John Cena defeated Bray Wyatt and the Undertaker's streak ended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 And the company was its own worst enemy teasing a Bryan main event push in summer/fall 2013 before taking it away after HIAC. Really the company caused the backlash. Doing the cage match angle with Wyatt raised expectations and from that point there was no turning back. Again why did they give that the main event slot when it really wasn't leading to anything big down the line? And I agree that them giving in was more about Batista not getting over as a face than anything with .Bryan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blehschmidt Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 I was there that night at the Rumble, and I truly believe the one thing they could have done, that would have at least got a laugh from the crowd and made us slightly less pissed off, would have been to pull Rey from the Rumble, and send out another guy.... "Pittsburgh, I know you were hoping for Daniel Bryan, but I'm afraid I've got some Bad News!" At least then, we would have known they at least heard us, and were intentionally fucking with us, instead of just ignoring the one thing the crowd wanted. Even if we were still angry, at least the heat would have somewhat gone on a heel and not Rey Mysterio. As for being upset that Batista was blown up........not in the least. We wanted Daniel Bryan, we may have accepted Reigns or Punk, but we wanted Daniel Bryan, and we hoped beyond hope they were going to do "what was right for business" and give us Daniel Bryan. But they went with Batista, and we all know how that ended. I said it then, and I will say it now. I have left arenas before where the fans were disappointed in a show, but that was the only time I ever walked out and the fans were downright hostile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 The would not have booed if Bryan was defending the belt, since that would mean he was champ and as such negate the whole point of the booing. Don't forget the title match got shit on just as bad if not worse than the Rumble, to the point Orton had one of his famous temper tantrums. Some of the booking leading up to the Rumble was insanely odd for me. Bryan beating Cena cleanly at Summerslam which I personally would have kept for a Wrestlemania, even though it felt a waste of time when Hunter just Pedigreed Bryan so Orton could take the belt. So Bryan gets a rematch and they bring HBK in a big favourite only to screw Bryan over? I know he's Hunters friend but really that sucked. It might have been better to just have Bryan hold the belt from Summerslam to past the Rumble and then have Orton cash in the title shot in a February Raw around the time the Network was happening. So you have the Chamber match where Bryan gets his rematch only for Hunter to cost him which then leads to what happened at Mania. Then in April we get Batista defending against Bryan. Im guessing Punk would have still walked out in January even if this scenario happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russellmania Posted January 19, 2015 Report Share Posted January 19, 2015 Bryan was drawing less than John Cena at house shows, selling less merchandise than John Cena and his television segments were lower rated than John Cena's, so they wrote it off as a vocal minority that didn't really represent the WWE fanbase as a whole. What's missed there is that such outcomes were almost entirely the result of self-fulling prophecy. Not to say Bryan would have been a bigger draw than Cena with the right push, but he had enough fan support that they needed to try to do something more with him. Somewhere along the way, their perception changed, probably more because Batista ending WM as the champ wasn't going to work than anything else. That's my theory. Just imagine Batista going over at the end of the same show where John Cena defeated Bray Wyatt and the Undertaker's streak ended. Yeah, weren't a lot of those assumptions about drawing power kind of loaded? Like Cena and Bryan were on separate tours a lot right? And Cena got to headline the shows on the "A" tour (in the traditionally bigger markets), whereas Bryan was working the "B" tour. In other words, the shows Bryan was on were going to draw less no matter what. At least that's what I remember reading. As for merch sales, Bryan's merch has mostly sucked and it wasn't until he started getting a real push that they came out with one or two decent shirts for him IIRC. And people have always talked about how Cena has a hold on the merch situation because his stuff is so prominently featured at arenas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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