Greg Valentine

[Matt D]

Dream Team came together in summer 85, no?

[Al]

Also, was Valentine in the Dream Team by 84? If so, a major part of Albano's character was as a manager of tag teams, so from that point of view it would have made sense.

Valentine and Beefcake first teamed in January '85, though it appears to be more of a thrown together tag than a steady feud. Beefcake was already being managed by Johnny Valiant then. In February of '85, Valentine picked up Jimmy Hart as a manager. Valentine and Beefcake started teaming regularly shortly after Wrestlemania, with Hart managing Valentine and Valiant managing Beefcake (hence "Dream Team"). At some point Hart was dropped from the group.

 

Couldn't help but notice this result while looking through Graham's site:

 

WWF IC Champion Greg Valentine (w/ Jimmy Hart) defeated Jim Londos via submission with the figure-4

 

A jobber named Jim Londos? That's some chutzpa.

[Matt D]

85 WWF is something of a blind spot for me. Valentine still had the IC belt into July, right?

[King Solomon]

85 WWF is something of a blind spot for me. Valentine still had the IC belt into July, right?

 

yes he did, lost it to Tito in Baltimore that month

[JaymeFuture]

A lot of what works against Valentine's case as a HoFer I think is the fact that throughout a lot of his finer work and greater prominence, even at his peak it never felt like he was absolutely critical to a territory or a guy that was ever going to be any kind of cornerstone. In many ways he always felt like the quintessential guy to cast as a mechanic.

[goodhelmet]

Since Loss created the Microscope, I have gone back and read some of the old threads. Valentine is a guy who may be part of the greatest in-ring feud with Santana. If I could come up with a disc or 2 of his pre-WWF stuff, I would consider doing a Valentine set.

 

On the first WWF set, Valentine really got the shaft. Only two matches appeared...

Greg Valentine vs Ricky Steamboat (6/21/85 MSG)

Greg Valentine vs Ron Garvin (9/30/89 MSG)

 

 

Comments about Valentine from the new WWF 80s set nominations...

 

 

Bob Backlund vs. Greg Valentine (11/23/81)

Holy shit, Backlund attacks Valentine before the match and hits him with the belt. No holds barred! Bob is fucking Greg up. Smart work early when Greg misses a knee charge to the corner, Bob works the legs. Nothing wrong with that. Greg tries to fight back but Bob just kicks his leg and he drops. Bob even goes for a figure-4 but Greg pulls him down and turns the tide. Even after turning the tide, Greg still selling the leg. As of this moment, not really a No Holds Barred match even though it was teased as such early on. Really smart match but not extremely violent. Just as I say that, Greg gets to wrap Bob's leg around the ringpost several times. Bob escapes the figure-4 a couple of times but Greg finally gets it on and I am liking the leg work in the match. Eventually, Bob catches Greg with his deadlift German for the pin. Not a great No Holds Barred match but a great wrestling match. I have to check Cawthon's site and see if this was a regular match or No DQ. If it was no holds barred, merely solid. If it was just a match, this was really an easy nomination.

 

 

Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana (MSG 6/16/84)

My favorite part was Greg just killing Tito in the corner with every move in his arsenal. I didn't think it had the really nasty moment to be called an all time great but I have no objection with this moving forward. So far, between this feud and Piper-Orndorff, I don't know which is my favorite feud discovery. Solid Nomination.

 

 

Hulk Hogan vs. Greg Valentine (MSG 7/23/84)

The actual date on this is 7/23/84. Valentine and Hogan are interviewed pre-match. Valentine cuts a normal promo but Hulk says something about calling the electric company in NYC to turn the power off because the Hulkamaniacs will be making the city explode or something. This was pretty good. Valentine went after Hulk immediately following the ring announcements. Hulk fought back and threw some awesome punches and whipped Valentine into the turnbuckle aggressively who bumped great for it. Hulk got on a side head lock but got back suplexed and The Hammer pounded on him for a few minutes with some stiff clubs. This heat segment didn't do anything for me. They went to the floor and brawled so the match slowly got better. Hulk reversed a suplex attempt into his own and followed that up with a shoulder breaker and a fucking brutal big boot that connected with Valentine's face. Valentine found an opportunity to work on Hulk's leg after a Hogan mistake and worked on it briefly. He attempted the figure four but Hulk countered on both tries. There was a pretty good sleeper spot with Hulk fighting out of it. Valentine made his second heat segment more varied and compelling than the first. The Hammer went for a move from the top rope but caught a huge clothesline that looked sick from the camera angle. Hulk executed the leg drop in a bizarre but actually cool way to grab the win. There were parts in this that didn't sit well with me but there was some great brawling and fun spots. I could see this on a set and someone else possibly liking this more.

 

 

Greg Valentine vs. Jose Luis Rivera (MSG 9/22/84)

EXPOSER: The actual date on this is 9/22/84. Wow, this was good. Rivera went after Valentine before The Hammer could even get his robe off. He sent Valentine to the floor who was eventually able to take his robe off. Valentine came back in and took control. He worked on Rivera's midsection and did a lot of cool stuff. He gave him a gut buster, vertical suplex on to the top rope, stood on his stomach, stomped him really hard, and really pounded on him for a good while. Also, he gave him a shoulder breaker and did a really painful looking wrist lock hold. Rivera kept fighting back in the corner with some nice punches and got in a few body slams. In his last effort to come back he and The Hammer got into this really intense fist fight in the corner which ruled. Valentine won the fight and gave him a snap under hook suplex then applied the figure four for the win. He re-applied it after the match and other wrestlers came to the aid of Rivera after The Hammer left. I really enjoyed this and thought it was a very good JTTS match.

 

 

Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana (MSG 10/22/84)

This was fucking awesome. If I were to compare this to the Regal-Larry Z feud, this was equivalent to the Pro match. Non-stop violent sprint with Tito busting Greg open and giving some VIOLENT, SICK forearms to Greg's nose. The DQ does not bother me at all because the ending was so violent. EASY NOMINATION

 

 

Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana (Boston 1/5/85)

DYLAN WACO: Tremendously great match, to the point where I could see this as someones number one. Tito is just so great at these sort of hard hitting, hate filled fights and that is also Valentine's bread and butter. Still this was on a whole nother level. Both guys were just crushing each other with forearms, punches, et all match. Greg's leg work was simple for the most part, but extremely effective. The spot with him going for a cover and laying all of his weight on Tito's leg was fucking awesome. Tito hit one great flying forearm early on which Greg was able to survive. This match has such a great ebb and flow and both guys were selling the fuck out of exhaustion/getting their asses kicked, but in a way that allowed them to come up for big spots. Devon is right about the Valentine headbutt. Totally vicious shot that looked like it killed Tito. The finish was also really great as there were several awesome bumps in this, but Valentine's tumble to the floor was the best and totally believable as a knockout blow, with the countout really well milked for maximum effect. This is no worse than a top ten match. Probably top five.

 

 

Greg Valentine vs. Tito Santana (Lumberjack Match) (MSG 3/17/85)

The fucking Valentine forearms were sick. Tito's punches looked great. My favorite part was when they would just beat the shit out of each other in the slugfest portion. The lumberjacks served their purpose but this would have been every bit as good without them. I had to rewind the finish a couple of times before I realized they were both knocked out. Yeah, this ruled. EASY NOMINATION

 

 

Tito Santana vs. Greg Valentine (Cage Match) (Baltimore 7/6/85)

Great match, my favorite between the two so far. Stiff, violent and using the cage the way you should in an escape the cage rules match. I was telling Phil I love the way they just crumple to the ground with a leg dangling up in the air or half twisted when they land because it feels more real than he choreographed typical getting crotched on the rope or flat back bumps you see nowadays in nearly every cage match. Each time someone tried to escape the cage, it felt like the right way to stop the escape... Tito's palm strike to Greg's face, Tito holding on to Greg's tights for dear life, Greg punching the shit out of Tito. Add the blood (although there aren't any great camera angles of the blood), the awesome finish and Greg losing his shit in the post-match and this might be the best cage match the WWF produced in the 80s. EASIEST OF NOMINATIONS

 

 

Greg Valentine v. Dick Slater (1/3/87)

DYLAN WACO: Cool match that really locked me in in the last few minutes. Lots of neat stuff, but I was very impressed by Slater. I liked his jab, footrake, and jumping headbutt over the ref as much or more than anything Valentine did and that is high praise. Slater fighting off the figure-four was really well done as also. This was an escalating match that started off solid and by the time it was over it felt like you had watched something really good.

 

 

Greg Valentine v. Blue Blazer (4/22/89)

DYLAN WACO: I thought this was pretty great and safely the best thing I've watched so far tonight. Valentine is crazy underrated and Owen is Owen so I knew this had a chance but this overacheived. The opening armwork was fun but this didn't get super good until Owen took his speedy bump to the floor. From there they just work a great run of stuff centered around whether or not Owen can survive Hammer's clubbing style and whether or not Valentine can survive Owen's big offense. Loved the spot with Owen hitting a desperation second rope dropkick out of the corner and Valentine doing his delayed face plant bump. I also thought it was cool how Greg hung onto a bodyslam attempt and seemed to turn it into a backbreaker on a whim. The stuff with three escapes of the figure four was great and Owen's run of big offense all looked good leading up to the cool finish with him going to the well one too many times and Valentine laying on an awesome looking cover after the slam for the finish.

 

 

Greg Valentine v. Ronnie Garvin (10/8/89)

DYLAN WACO: One or two odd spots but other than that this was pretty god damned solid slugfest wrestling. Everytime you thought it met settle in a bit Ronnie who just fucking kill Greg with what looked (and sounded) like full force punches right to the face. I know some people don't like the Heartbreaker gimmick but I love it and thought the finish was a clever way of giving the fans a clean finish without making the face look weak. Typically awesome fight between two of the best "feels like a real fight" guys ever.

[JerryvonKramer]

This reminds me, I wanted to share a passage with you guys from that WWF Colesium book I got for Xmas, partly because it reminded me of this thread and partly to see what people make of it. This is by Bernard Rage:

 

Greg Valentine is one ignorant son of a bitch. He is a box with arms and legs in a blond wig, and I swear you could punch the man square in the face and unless a family member was around to tell him it happened, he just wouldn't know. Gorilla Monsoon once said that he had such a low centre of gravity, that he was hard to knock off his feet. That's a knowledgeable commentator telling you that this lump of a man has no interest in selling this shit. Valentine was trained by Stu Hart, and adopted a lot of his old-school style. Again, that's a polite way of saying that he was a stiff bastard who moved like an old man. Some how, and I don't really get it, this uncharismatic, stocky, immobile, grouchy lump of a man managed to work for promoters like Jim Crockett Jr., Antonio Inoki and both Vince McMahons. He's tagged with and fought Flair, fedued with Pedro Morales and Don Muraco, and held more belts than he's cracked smiles. That's to his credit also. But if you watch a Valentine match, you'll realise he rarely sells, looks bored, and makes stiff work look dull. He shouldn't have been as successful as he was. But there are two reasons why I'm a fan of "The Hammer". He's got a reputation, worked I'm sure, of being a guy who injures others. Nothing unusual about that, it's a common gimmick. Old Greg however, found ways to make it amusing. After an incident with a very popular Wahoo McDaniel, Greg took to wearing a t-shirt that said 'I broke Wahoo's leg' on the front, and (and this is the bit that delights me) 'No more Wahoo' on the back. What makes me chuckle here is that out of context, the wording on the back makes it sound like his wife isn't happy with him. But what's really funny is him slapping his trademark figure-four on Superstar Billy Graham. Not when Graham was a big strong, prototype of Hogan, oh no. When Graham was a beat-up old man recovering from a hip replacement. That is a heel, right there.

Thoughts?

[BrickHithouse]

Thoughts?

 

It kind of pisses me off and would stop me from purchasing the book (which I was considering purchasing today). Is the whole book filled with shit like this?

 

I don't mean to derail the Valentine thread to discuss this "author"...

[JerryvonKramer]

I also don't want to derail the thread, because I really want to unpack that and see what people disagree with as a means of better understanding what people think about Valentine, will answer in another thread.

[Dylan Waco]

Here is what I disagree with:

 

Valentine didn't sell - bullshit lie or ignorant statement. Valentine sold fine and was actually very good at long term selling

 

Valentine worked stiff but didn't do it in a way that made things look like they hurt - "is acid legal?" - Bill Parcels

 

Valentine was trained by Stu Hart and got his working style from him - Comically stupid statement since he was clearly a clone of his dad and I don't recall Bret or Ben Basserab working like Greg Valentine

 

Valentine shouldn't have been as successful as he was - At least he is acknowledging that Greg was very successful, but I think the reason he was so successful is precisely because he was a credible worker like his dad.

 

I do agree that Greg wasn't oozing with charisma and he had a stodgy, slow moving look. At times he could grind a match to a halt, though I don't think he is even close to the worst guy from that era in that regard.

[JerryvonKramer]

On Valentine's influences, did he ever work with Johnny Valentine, because watching that Jack Brisco match the other night, I felt like I was watching a Greg Valentine match. So many of Valentine's mannerisms are basically exactly like Greg's. The deadpan face. His basic body shape. It was my immediate thought watching it that Greg got his entire act from Johnny.

[Grimmas]

Someone mentioned a Valentine-Anderson tag team and now I am furious that never happened. They would had been epic.

[ohtani's jacket]

Thoughts?

Why buy a book that reads like a series of message board posts and bad news site reviews?

[Exposer]

I may never read that book. From what I've seen so far in the WWF 80's re-watch Valentine is somebody who comes out looking even better than originally thought. And that Tito feud is so fucking great. One of my ten favorite feuds ever.

[shoe]

His feud with Tito is fantastic. I've always liked his hr. draw with Backlund. Actually I've liked a lot of his career . Now Will if you do make a Valentine comp I'm sure their are 2 discs worth of pre WWF Valentine to put on. I mean their are the 2 Flair matches. One from classics the other the handheld. Their are some of the garbage tapes, the Wahoo match, the Piper Starcade match and build. I always loved the promo he did with Sarge and Kernodle tearing Younbloods headdress while reading the little kids letter. You could cover the Flair-Valentine breakup. These are some stuff that I know is out there

[PeteF3]

On Valentine's influences, did he ever work with Johnny Valentine, because watching that Jack Brisco match the other night, I felt like I was watching a Greg Valentine match. So many of Valentine's mannerisms are basically exactly like Greg's. The deadpan face. His basic body shape. It was my immediate thought watching it that Greg got his entire act from Johnny.

Yes, they teamed up at the beginning of Greg's career. Fun note: so as not to make Johnny out to be too old, they were initially billed as the Valentine Brothers.

[WingedEagle]

Valentine is one guy I simply haven't seen much of. I remember his late run in WWF with feuds vs. Beefcake and then the HTM team as I was growing up, but really have no exposure to his early work. Reading up on him this morning makes it clear that needs to change.

[Dylan Waco]

Was looking for something totally unrelated today and found this Carlos Colon v. Greg Valentine Cage Match from 1991

 

 

First five minutes or so is missing which is too bad because this is really good. Escape the cage rules but they make the most out of things and I thought the way both guys cut off the other worked well. Both guys bleed, Valentine takes some great bumps, and the match has a good flow to it. I also thought the finish was really clever. This was Valentine past his prime, but it's hard to imagine anyone having a better match with Colon in 91.

[El-P]

I have shitloads of WWC waiting somewhere, one of these days, one of these days... it's stuff like this that gives me the urge....

[tomk]

Was looking for something totally unrelated today and found this Carlos Colon v. Greg Valentine Cage Match from 1991

 

 

First five minutes or so is missing which is too bad because this is really good. Escape the cage rules but they make the most out of things and I thought the way both guys cut off the other worked well. Both guys bleed, Valentine takes some great bumps, and the match has a good flow to it. I also thought the finish was really clever. This was Valentine past his prime, but it's hard to imagine anyone having a better match with Colon in 91.

Not to get sidedrained into discussion of Puerto Rico but this is what I wrote when folks were soliciting matches for 91 set:

 

I haven't been a tape trader in years but it used to be really hard to get a hold of 90s Puerto Rico with the exception of Eddie Gilbert booked period in 94/95 (which is lots of him pushing Glen Jacobs and Tom Burton) and 91.

 

For some reason a bunch of 91 was easily available including stuff that got commercial releases. WWC brought in a nice group of brawling wrestlers from the continental US that year ( Ronnie Garvin, Greg Valentine, Dick Murdoch, Dick Slater, Manny Fernandez, Texas Hangmen and the SST) which may have resulted in more tape trader interest (or maybe they just had more money for talent and putting out commercial tapes that year). Who knows?

 

 

Stuff that I think would be worth going on a 91 set.

 

-Dick Murdoch v Wahoo: It's Dick Murdoch and Wahoo running through their spots together

 

-The Texas Hangmen v Invader/Bronco series: Hot tag series.

 

-Murdoch/Slater v Invader/Colon-Hardliners v Invader/Colon

 

-Abby v Carlos Colon (also the angle that sets it up where Abby attacks Colon in the shower...at one point guys getting attacked in shower in Puerto Rico was considered "tasteless" by continental Us tape traders). Two 50 year old men stabbing each other as they wander around a stadium. Really has the chaotic feel of two fifty year old men getting in a fight stabbing each other around a stadium.

 

-Miguel Perrez Jr v Hurican Castillo Jr dog collar match. Nice contrast to last match as two athletic thirty year old guys working a grizzly brawl around a basketball court chained together by the neck.

 

-Ronnie Garvin v Invader form the Anniversario show: Ronnie Garvin returns to Puerto Rico, and I can watch Garvin build a match around stretching and stiffing an opponent all day. No blood but it's Ronnie Garvin so this may in fact feel like the grizzliest of all these matches.

 

About two years ago awesome Midsouth jobber Gustavo Mendoza started putting up his matches from Puerto Rico on youtube. I don't know if there is a way to put the tag title against the SuperMedics on to disc, but it is just a fun very basic tag construction. I think it would be earliest match and it's important with the Puerto Rican stuff to give a sense that this is style that isn't built on grizzly brawls so much as it is built on really old school simple construction where any minute things can go awry and all hell will break loose.

I think you can find alot of that on various webvideo sites (dailymotion, youtube, facebook video, etc.) I prefer Invader to Colon at this point and so mostly reccomended matches with him v outsider brawlers, but sure you can find Colon v same cast to compare to Valentine match.

[jdw]

Bob Backlund vs. Greg Valentine (11/23/81)

Holy shit, Backlund attacks Valentine before the match and hits him with the belt. No holds barred! Bob is fucking Greg up. Smart work early when Greg misses a knee charge to the corner, Bob works the legs. Nothing wrong with that. Greg tries to fight back but Bob just kicks his leg and he drops. Bob even goes for a figure-4 but Greg pulls him down and turns the tide. Even after turning the tide, Greg still selling the leg. As of this moment, not really a No Holds Barred match even though it was teased as such early on. Really smart match but not extremely violent. Just as I say that, Greg gets to wrap Bob's leg around the ringpost several times. Bob escapes the figure-4 a couple of times but Greg finally gets it on and I am liking the leg work in the match. Eventually, Bob catches Greg with his deadlift German for the pin. Not a great No Holds Barred match but a great wrestling match. I have to check Cawthon's site and see if this was a regular match or No DQ. If it was no holds barred, merely solid. If it was just a match, this was really an easy nomination.

It's a Texas Death Match, which is essentially No Holds Barred / No DQ with the title held up in an MSG-only angle, hence the pop at the end and Bob (and the crowd) looking as close to a title winning look as you saw in this period.

 

A lot of the TDM were like this: they'd do spots to get across the concept, but it would then force them into working a match. The point didn't seem to be to escalate the violence from start to finish, but to eliminate the screwiness that caused the prior match to go off the rails.

 

In this case, they did their early spots, and then got down to destroying each other's legs... which was a whole selling point of Greg in the feud(s). It's a damn good match.

 

John

[jdw]

Did you review the Steamboat singles match from the first WWF Set John? I have read through all of those posts before but it's been a long time. I ask because I really liked that match.

Didn't see this question earlier, Dylan.

 

Here:

 

Match #41 - 06/21/85 Greg Valentine vs Ricky Steamboat (14:20)

Taped: Madison Square Garden, New York

Aired: 06/21/85 MSG Network

 

Lots of Kung Fu Steamer early, which really isn't the best side of Ricky. Watching Ricky using sumo-style slaps to the chest isn't any better. I do like him using the neck snapper, which is just a throwaway highspot for him rather than 90% of the offense that Curt Hennig brings to the table in a certain match... but I digress.

 

Ricky dominates the first seven minutes, and mixed around some decent spots and sequences that pick the match up. There is a lot of stuff that's either boring or down right bad. I tend to blame most of it on the Kunf Fu nonsense since that's at the heart of much that's off. This just doesn't have the solid early base that Steamer-Bret did, where Ricky put aside a kung fu-centric work and instead controlled early working to his strengths.

 

Valentine in control starts great in playing off the transition spot: getting the knees up on a Steamer splash attempt. The knee drops to the gut are a sharp move, and the gutbuster had a nice feel to it. Dropping the hammer forearm to the throat for a nearfall comes across less as losing the tangent and instead simply taking an opportunity for a pin attempt because of how Valentine follows: a headbutt to the gut. Greg gives a sense of "taking what's there" as when Steamer sits up to sell the headbutt, Hammer gives him a nice brainbuster elbow right to the skull. When Steamer flops his back down on the mat, Hammer grabs the leg, ponders the figure four, seems to ponder the elbow to the leg to set up the figure four, but instead sees Steamer's wide open gut that he's been working over and drops a chunky elbow to it.

 

At this point, Greg could veer off from the stomach and bring the big guns and the figure four for all I care. He brought a more focused attack on a damaged body part here than The Brothers did in their entire match against the Rockers.

 

After a pin attempt off the elbow drop, almost as a feeler to see how much he's taken out of Steamer, Hammer does switch to working over the leg. In the end, unless Greg suddenly learns how to use The Claw, there's only so far he can go with the stomach. If they're going 30 minutes, then whip out the Ab-Stetch and other stuff. But they're not going 30 - they're going half that. Again, it has a nice "taking what's there" vibe. Ricky hurt the stomach after eating it on the splash attempt. It was there to attack for Greg, and he did. After the pin attempt Ricky was still on the mat at his mercy. When grabbing the knee rather than using the headbutt and elbow drop to the stomach previously, the hamstrings are wide open for some knee drives. It's there, it's open, it sets up his finisher, take it.

 

Nice tease of the figure four with Ricky grabbing a handful of blond hair for a small package to counter it. Ricky tries a little comeback, but Hammer gets a pretty theatrical counter press (Ricky makes it great by kicking his legs way up in the air), and then Hammer cuts him off with a nice punch to the gut then sends Ricky bumping to the floor.

 

The match half goes off the rails at the point. Other than a very nice brainbuster elbow that Ricky sells strongly, most of the time Ricky is out of the ring grinds the match to a halt rather than builds drama. He ends up wandering around the ring in a semi-zombie mode that reads better than it is on the screen. He fires himself up on the floor, and then the match resets with some major clubber-fu. *That* is well done as they go back and forth, but the point from Ricky going out until then isn't so hot in a match that's clocking in at less than 15 minutes.

 

As seen in the review of the first Backlund-Sarge match in Philly, I'm not adverse to a "face out on the floor and out of it" sequence, even if it takes a while to work through it. This one just didn't work until Ricky smacked the apron to show he was fired up.

 

The dualing fists-o-fury, which of course Ricky was going to win, was quite good. Greg really sells the shit out each of Ricky's strikes without bumping. It's pretty decent from there to the end, though they don't bring a lot of big guns. Ricky uses the press and a load of chop-fu for pin attempts, while Greg has a very nice backdrop suplex and some of his favorite elbow drops for pin attempts. The last tease of the figure four has a "take it home" feel rather than a dramatic feel, and it is take it home as they go right to the count out.

 

This is perhaps a third of a really strong match. The third being Greg's controlling section and the firery comeback up to Greg actually being counted out. Ricky's controlling section badly needs a re-write to moderate the Kung Fu shit. Then to be a really strong match, it needed to have Greg get back in the ring rather than be counted out, with them going another three or so minutes of near falls and actually have a finish. Both had more in the holster.

 

It's sort of worth watching. It's not the match one would hope for based on some of their other work in the WWF, and even together in the tag match. It starts off choppy, hits road bump late, then ends a bit too quickly and poorly. I wanted to like this a lot more, which is pretty evident by the pleasure I took from Greg's work while in control. But as a whole it just doesn't get there. Which is especially disappointing since this seems to waste a night when Greg was both game and focused on his work. The Toronto tag was a night where they delivered.

 

I'd like to see their Toronto singles match in 1985 if it exists.

 

John

[goodhelmet]

Bob Backlund vs. Greg Valentine (11/23/81)

Holy shit, Backlund attacks Valentine before the match and hits him with the belt. No holds barred! Bob is fucking Greg up. Smart work early when Greg misses a knee charge to the corner, Bob works the legs. Nothing wrong with that. Greg tries to fight back but Bob just kicks his leg and he drops. Bob even goes for a figure-4 but Greg pulls him down and turns the tide. Even after turning the tide, Greg still selling the leg. As of this moment, not really a No Holds Barred match even though it was teased as such early on. Really smart match but not extremely violent. Just as I say that, Greg gets to wrap Bob's leg around the ringpost several times. Bob escapes the figure-4 a couple of times but Greg finally gets it on and I am liking the leg work in the match. Eventually, Bob catches Greg with his deadlift German for the pin. Not a great No Holds Barred match but a great wrestling match. I have to check Cawthon's site and see if this was a regular match or No DQ. If it was no holds barred, merely solid. If it was just a match, this was really an easy nomination.

It's a Texas Death Match, which is essentially No Holds Barred / No DQ with the title held up in an MSG-only angle, hence the pop at the end and Bob (and the crowd) looking as close to a title winning look as you saw in this period.

 

A lot of the TDM were like this: they'd do spots to get across the concept, but it would then force them into working a match. The point didn't seem to be to escalate the violence from start to finish, but to eliminate the screwiness that caused the prior match to go off the rails.

 

In this case, they did their early spots, and then got down to destroying each other's legs... which was a whole selling point of Greg in the feud(s). It's a damn good match.

 

John

 

Then they finally got the formula right for the Sarge vs. Sheik Boot Camp match. I prefer violence on top of violence.

[jdw]

Cage matches tended to have the violence.

[Superstar Sleeze]

Without even trying I keep watching the same matches as jdw, hey it makes the play-by-play reviewing easier that's for sure.

 

WWF I-C Champion Greg Valentine vs Ricky Steamboat

 

I had never seen this match before, but always meant to. I may start a Steamboat thread because I have watched about seven of his matches today. He is surprisingly more hit or miss than I expected, but this is the Valentine thread. I have always thought the Valentine/Piper dog collar match was one of the better blood feud matches I have seen. The Garvin series is pretty good and served as my first exposure to the awesomeness that is Ron Garvin. I have never gotten around to watching Valentine/Santana. I have seen the '84 Backlund match and liked it, but have never seen the '79 match everyone hypes. He seems like one tough hombre and a wrestler I would enjoy as long as he is opposed to someone colorful like a Roddy Piper.

 

They were really trying to capitalize on Kung-Fu with Steamboat's character in the WWF because everyone needs a gimmick. Mean Gene drops the term Jiu-jitsu, I didnt think that was popular until the rise of the Gracies and UFC in the early 90s. The kung-fu shit makes this match really jarring as neither guy seems to understand how to work it into the match. I liked the sumo slaps though. Valentine looked great on offense and followed up logically on his transition onto offense. The nice thing about the Hammer when watching a copious amount of 80s WWF is his strikes stand out more than the relatively weak shots most WWF guys give each other.

 

I knew what they going for with Steamboat on the outside, but it seemed like Steamboat was holding himself up against apron with a blank stare for way too long. The slugfest was the best part, but that was quick. The finish was decent. I expected a lot better, but thought Valentine was the better of the two. It never got out of first gear and I have seen a lot better offensive performances out of Steamboat. Valentine stands out in 80s WWF, but I am still waiting to find that all-time classic. I would hazard a guess that gem is either '79 Backlund or within the Tito series.

 

Decisions, decisions, stick with Steamboat and watch Steamboat/Jake or go Valentine/Tito.