Things guys that you like do that you hate

[JerryvonKramer]

Are there any standard spots that your favourites do that irritate you?

 

For example, I love Arn Anderson but I don't like it whenever he does the cartoony "drunk" punches into thin air. I can understand a guy like Terry Funk having that in his repetoire but with someone who is meant to be as cerebral as Arn, I've never thought it made sense for his character to do that spot.

 

As a side issue, what do people think about the Flair Flip? That move is almost never logical and seldom part of the 'story of a match' but it is so distinctly Flair that sometimes it's almost comforting to see it. Depending on my mood, sometimes I like it, other times it makes me roll my eyes and think "here we go again". Is anyone particuarly a FAN of it? Does anyone here HATE it?

[Bigelow34]

Love the Rock but I hated how he ended his matches with the People's Elbow instead of the Rock Bottom during the peak years. Always drove me nuts.

[soup23]

To me Flair is the prime example. One of my GOAT contenders but man did his "formula" spots piss me off. I don't really like the devaluation of the figure four, the Flair flip, or the Tommy Young bump at all. I can forgive him coming off the top rope more than the above three examples because at least he did win big matches with the crossbody but still as an accountant, I would never advise someone to risk something if it only had about a 3% chance of working which is what the crossbody percentage probably generously amounted to.

[Loss]

I agree with the Flair criticisms. HAPPY, EVERYONE?

[Loss]

I will add that Terry Funk's spaghetti-legged selling annoys me because it's too "performed". I wouldn't mind it so much if it was an occasional spot. Manami Toyota being too noisy in the ring is another. Masa Chono's odd breathing patterns where it sounds like he's doing an imitation of a horse are distracting. Hate the Jericho/Sting/Muto facebuster spot because it looks like a lazy bulldog. Steve Austin should have dropped the Thesz press.

[JerryvonKramer]

LOVE the idea of Chad, with his accountant hat on assessing risk, for various wrestlers.

 

"Mr. DiBiase, do you know your second rope double-axe handle spot has only hit in 5% of your matches. At least 90% of the time it results in you taking a shot to the stomach and spinning over to the floor. I'd advise you not to attempt this move again sir. Also, I think you might want a more secure way of storing your all your $100 bills than letting a black guy called Virgil carry them around. He keeps losing them to babyfaces and they end up in the hands of fans. You might want to consider getting a partner with a briefcase."

[soup23]

You will see when we get there Parv but this is why I think the York Foundation was one of the great lost gimmicks because of the "computer's" ability to give data based strategy.

 

Thinking about this topic more, I think lucha guys in a lot of ways are less prominent to having these patterns. I am a pretty big novice in lucha so maybe someone else can chime in, but I can't think of many instances where someone like Dandy, Casas, or Panther do little things in almost every match that sort of annoy me like Flair and even Lawler and Funk do. Part of this may be the concept of mostly trios matches where there workload is reduced and even lack of footage but on the surface it just doesn't seem as prevalent to me.

 

In addition to the examples mentioned before I will also mention Jumbo's whiny complaining and finger pointing at certain points in matches. At times, it didn't make him look like a sympathetic babyface at all.

[khawk20]

Hate the Jericho/Sting/Muto facebuster spot because it looks like a lazy bulldog.

While I'm sure there are guys that did the bulldog well, I find it looks weak more often than not.

 

Guys that used kneelifts drove me nuts, too, because it was always a spot that had you looking to see how close he really got (often, not close at all), which took you right out your mindset while watching the match.

[Matt D]

I could write a thousand words about How I Learned to Love the 619 pretty easily.

[El-P]

619

[Matt D]

We obviously used time travel there.

[goodhelmet]

The 619 has only increased my love of Rey's work over the years.

 

I hate the Hennig-HBk-Ziggler over bumping but not enough to make me hate the wrestlers. I disliked Eddie Guerrero doing the three amigos since I was over the multiple suplex drops by the time he started doing them.

[Jingus]

The 619 itself is fine. It's a knockout kick, and he usually follows it up with some top-rope move afterwards. Perfectly acceptable finishing combo. What's not acceptable is how easily guys just fall right into perfect position for the move. I hate that, when stuff happens in a guy's matches which rarely happens in other matches, simply because they've got to Get Their Shit In. Similar to "why does nobody ever catch a thrown chair unless the thrower is Rob Van Dam?" or "gee, people sure do seem to accidentally hurt their knees around Ric Flair shockingly often".

 

Why the heck do "technical wrestlers" like Bret or Angle tend to spend at least half of the match on punching, kicking, and stomping? It's a jarring disconnect between the person's in-ring gimmick and in-ring performance.

 

I love Rock, but much of his offense looks like shit. Awful sharpshooter, look-ma-no-hands suplexes, and "punches" which aren't even punches! He's just slapping the other guy in the neck, open-handed, a thousand times in a row!

 

Masa Chono's odd breathing patterns where it sounds like he's doing an imitation of a horse are distracting.

Oh GOD yes. What the hell is that?! It sounds a little like Foley's constant muttering in tongues, except it sounds like he's not doing it on purpose and maybe doesn't even realize he's doing it.

 

Steve Austin should have dropped the Thesz press.

Or at least dropped those awful-looking punches afterwards. Especially since the punches are said to actually hurt like hell. Being in the mount has gotta be the worst, most awkward position for attempting to throw worked strikes.

[El-P]

I always loved Chono's breathing...

[BrickHithouse]

Lex Luger's missed elbow flat-back bump.

 

Lex Luger down and out on the mat, near unconscious, yet still able to muster the strength to fluff his hair.

 

Stinger splash to set up the Scorpion never made sense to me.

[Matt D]

Barbarian's Rope Walk Elbow Drop Miss. He never hits it. Ever.

[NintendoLogic]

I hate it when Bret Hart fills out the opening minutes of his matches with arm work that goes nowhere. Also, if you think about it, it didn't really make sense for Misawa to do a regular Tiger Driver. Why not just do the TD91 right off the bat?

[Chess Knight]

Mick Foley yelling 'WahDeh' every time he throws a punch.

[MikeCampbell]

I hate that splash that Mysterio does off the top rope. It looks like he's posing on the way down.

[Childs]

I hate it when Bret Hart fills out the opening minutes of his matches with arm work that goes nowhere. Also, if you think about it, it didn't really make sense for Misawa to do a regular Tiger Driver. Why not just do the TD91 right off the bat?

I always thought Misawa treated the TD91 sort of like a nuclear bomb -- such a deranged thing to do to someone that he only pulled it out in the most dire circumstances.

[JNLister]

It's very hard to criticise Rey's 619 once you've seen anyone else perform it.

[jdw]

Focusing on the "favorite", I got tired of Kawada's Chop + Hold Other Arm + Guy Falls Down + Drag Him Up + Chop Again + Wash + Rinse + Repeat. It was kind of funny when he'd do it to someone the size of Kikuchi, but it got old fast.

 

John

[ohtani's jacket]

Are there any standard spots that your favourites do that irritate you?

 

For example, I love Arn Anderson but I don't like it whenever he does the cartoony "drunk" punches into thin air. I can understand a guy like Terry Funk having that in his repetoire but with someone who is meant to be as cerebral as Arn, I've never thought it made sense for his character to do that spot.

 

As a side issue, what do people think about the Flair Flip? That move is almost never logical and seldom part of the 'story of a match' but it is so distinctly Flair that sometimes it's almost comforting to see it. Depending on my mood, sometimes I like it, other times it makes me roll my eyes and think "here we go again". Is anyone particuarly a FAN of it? Does anyone here HATE it?

Arn did comedic stooge selling all the time. It was a big part of his repetoire and he was great at it. I don't care about the Flair flip. It's a signature spot and signature spots are part of pro-wrestling. I don't really think they affect the integrity of a match. The best skill you can have as a pro-wrestler is to be able to do your schtick within an otherwise serious match. McManus, Breaks, Satanico, Fujiwara, Arn, Funk were all great at this.

[ohtani's jacket]

Thinking about this topic more, I think lucha guys in a lot of ways are less prominent to having these patterns. I am a pretty big novice in lucha so maybe someone else can chime in, but I can't think of many instances where someone like Dandy, Casas, or Panther do little things in almost every match that sort of annoy me like Flair and even Lawler and Funk do. Part of this may be the concept of mostly trios matches where there workload is reduced and even lack of footage but on the surface it just doesn't seem as prevalent to me.

Lucha is huge on schtick especially in trios, but just as there are multiple ways to work a trios match, the best workers have multiple routines. The Brazos and Infernales are good examples of this. Casas, Dandy, Panther, Santo etc. are all great workers, but they basically wrestled the same match again and again depending on the stip. Most of the time there's a comfort in that as Jerry alluded to, but El Hijo del Santo, in particular, is one of the most repetitive workers of all time.

[Dylan Waco]

Are there any standard spots that your favourites do that irritate you?

 

For example, I love Arn Anderson but I don't like it whenever he does the cartoony "drunk" punches into thin air. I can understand a guy like Terry Funk having that in his repetoire but with someone who is meant to be as cerebral as Arn, I've never thought it made sense for his character to do that spot.

 

As a side issue, what do people think about the Flair Flip? That move is almost never logical and seldom part of the 'story of a match' but it is so distinctly Flair that sometimes it's almost comforting to see it. Depending on my mood, sometimes I like it, other times it makes me roll my eyes and think "here we go again". Is anyone particuarly a FAN of it? Does anyone here HATE it?

Arn did comedic stooge selling all the time. It was a big part of his repetoire and he was great at it. I don't care about the Flair flip. It's a signature spot and signature spots are part of pro-wrestling. I don't really think they affect the integrity of a match. The best skill you can have as a pro-wrestler is to be able to do your schtick within an otherwise serious match. McManus, Breaks, Satanico, Fujiwara, Arn, Funk were all great at this.

 

 

I agree with all of this. That's pretty much a who's who of guys who I think are "holy shit" level great at that aspect of working. Watching Jim Breaks matches for the first time in forever last night I kept thinking to myself "god damn this motherfucker was good" and a lot of it was him doing variations of his bit catered to opponent/setting.