Your personal most Overrated and Underrated

[Fantastic]

Most Overrated: Bret Hart. I've always viewed him as a solid dependable guy that occasionally put on great matches, but wasn't near the standard of iconic greatness that some people apply to him. Facing facts, Owen Hart was a far better and more gifted athletically in-ring than Bret, it's just Bret had a degree of the goods needed to be an all round entertainer and he happened to be in the right place at the right time (1990-1997 WWF).

 

Most Underrated: Dustin Rhodes. A guy when he's motivated and in shape can make pretty much anybody look like a million bucks, even well into his 40's. He's a master of both tag team and singles wrestling, and a great character performer. As Goldust in the mid 1990's, there was potential for a WWF Championship run based on the talking people were doing about the character. It may have happened had WWF decided to tread more risque in favor of cheap ratings. Another wrestler overshadowed by his more famous father.

[Loss]

Terry Gordy is really overrated. I like him in the U.S., but in Japan, he's like watching paint dry most of the time.

[goc]

I always found Terry Gordy to be very overrated also but that may be because when I first got online he was always labeled as "the best big man ever" but when I watched him I really didn't think he wrestled a "big man" style so it was a case of skewed expectations.

 

At this point I think Matt Hardy is underrated. People got so caught up in his personal problems and weight gain that they completely forgot how he was right there competing with REY MYSTERIO for "best wrestler on TV" for a period of 2 or 3 years.

[JerryvonKramer]

I will third Terry Gordy. I think he's cool and pretty good as a young Freebird from what I've seen, but haven't enjoyed him tagging with Hansen in All Japan and really don't like his WCW run in 92 with Doc. What great matches of his in Japan would people point to?

[Bierschwale]

There are people on this planet who still consider Kurt Angle a top five worker in the world, as evidenced by the period of time when there were rumors of him resigning with the WWE to work as an NXT trainer. To me, his cult of adoration outstrips all others, and it is mindnumbing.

[El Boricua]

For overrated I'll go ahead and say it: Ric Flair post 1990.

[Dylan Waco]

Overrated: Tanahashi. I have no problem with people liking him, and he's not someone where I am completely clueless as to why he appeals to people, but he's a guy some people talk about as an absolute upper tier all time worker on par with the All Japan guys, the best guys from the States, et. I don't think he'd make my top 1000, and that's with me enjoyed him in the last 10-12 months more than any previous period of his career.

 

Underrated: Flip a coin between all Puerto Rican wrestling and lucha. Lucha has gotten a bit of a bump in recent years (or at least it feels like it), so maybe I'd go with PR, a promotion that was probably the best gimmick match promotions of all time, featured a shit ton of good matches, some tremendous matches, some all time great feuds, et.

[tim]

Post-WCW Rey definitely needs to be in the conversation for most underrated. It's pretty shocking how many people off the PWO-sphere will say he was flat out not good in WWE. Even if we ignore anything he did pre-WWE I still think he's an all time top 20 contender based on those years, so that's a pretty enormous gap from a lot of the popular opinion.

[Loss]

The most overrated wrestling move is the spear. Too many guys use it and it looks like crap most of the time.

 

The most overrated spot is anything involving the announce table. Seriously, I'd be happy if I never saw a spot on an announce table again.

[JerryvonKramer]

For overrated I'll go ahead and say it: Ric Flair post 1990.

Can you go into specifics here? I think -- especially on this board -- it's underrated if anything. He has some good matches in 1991 against people like Lex Luger, Bobby Eaton and Brian Pillman that just seem to be taken for granted because "it's Flair". He has some great matches with Randy Savage in 92 and a very good performance in the Royal Rumble, which again, are taken for granted because "it's Flair". He has a very good performance against Vader in 93 for one of the all-time great Starrcade moments, and some non-too-shabby matches against Barry Windgam. In 94, he has the match with Steamboat, which while not 89 standard, is still a good match for the time and place, and he has some great performances against a very selfish Hulk Hogan. Then in 95-6, he has the match with Arn, the often overlooked triangle match with Luger and Sting at Fall Brawl, and then after that some terrific character work -- the most over-looked of his career -- in the feud with Randy Savage, which produced some pretty good matches. Certainly they aren't matches that are a knock on either guy at that point in their careers.

 

After the NWO come in, I can't think of too many other Flair performances I'd cite, but I don't think Flair is "overrated" for the period of his career from 90-96 at all. If anything, people are overly harsh to him because he's no longer at the "obviously best worker in the world" levels he was in the 1980s.

[peachchaos]

I still can't figure out why, but I have always felt Austin/Rock at X7 is overrated. It has nothing to do with the finish, it is just I always feel SOMETHING is lacking when I watch it and I don't know what it is.

 

I totally agree with this. Not sure what it is at all. It's like they're both giving great individual performances in complete isolation from each other without bringing any chemistry to the mix.

[El Boricua]

 

For overrated I'll go ahead and say it: Ric Flair post 1990.

Can you go into specifics here? I think -- especially on this board -- it's underrated if anything. He has some good matches in 1991 against people like Lex Luger, Bobby Eaton and Brian Pillman that just seem to be taken for granted because "it's Flair". He has some great matches with Randy Savage in 92 and a very good performance in the Royal Rumble, which again, are taken for granted because "it's Flair". He has a very good performance against Vader in 93 for one of the all-time great Starrcade moments, and some non-too-shabby matches against Barry Windgam. In 94, he has the match with Steamboat, which while not 89 standard, is still a good match for the time and place, and he has some great performances against a very selfish Hulk Hogan. Then in 95-6, he has the match with Arn, the often overlooked triangle match with Luger and Sting at Fall Brawl, and then after that some terrific character work -- the most over-looked of his career -- in the feud with Randy Savage, which produced some pretty good matches. Certainly they aren't matches that are a knock on either guy at that point in their careers.

 

After the NWO come in, I can't think of too many other Flair performances I'd cite, but I don't think Flair is "overrated" for the period of his career from 90-96 at all. If anything, people are overly harsh to him because he's no longer at the "obviously best worker in the world" levels he was in the 1980s.

 

 

My overrated comment about Flair is more related to his place on the card during the 90's than his work. I'm heading into a meeting but I'll try to expand on this later.

[Bierschwale]

Post-WCW Rey definitely needs to be in the conversation for most underrated. It's pretty shocking how many people off the PWO-sphere will say he was flat out not good in WWE.

 

I encounter less of that on the MOR places and more of the idiot logic that seems to be based around the "illegitimacy" of him moving up to heavyweight status in the post-cruiser age. His WWE run was arguably hurt from the start because of how the cruiser division couldn't produce the same number of "classics" that were had in WCW as focus for that type of wrestling shifted to TNA and the indies. It just seems that there are a lot of marks against him that really don't carry any water under scrutiny but have become ingrained.

 

That reminds me for underrated: Chavito. Was never considered a top-level cruiser in WCW, also fell victim to the WWE cruiser curse, was considered the weak link of the Smackdown Six and decidedly secondary during the Heyman run as a whole like it was his fault that he wasn't his uncle when Eddie was having one of the greatest runs in company history, was KERWIN WHITE, and his greatest success came in WWECW, which people will always find a way to shit on.

[Loss]

Ric Flair was probably underrated in the late 90s as a star, although not so much as a performer. Still, he consistently drew higher ratings than just about anyone else would with the same level of push. When the WWF made their comeback, Flair interviews and matches were typically the only quarter hours that could post competitive numbers with whatever was on Raw.

[PeteF3]

I'll see if the Portland set changes my mind, but I'm fairly cold on the Sheepherders. They were certainly better than the Bushwhackers and I like their Clash 2 match against the Fantastics, but their barbed wire gorefests do nothing for me. The more I watch the less upset I get about what happened to them in the WWF, though there's no question they deteriorated badly in the ring.

 

Similar caveats apply--I have more '90s to watch--but for the first half of the decade Ultimo Dragon is a mess of a worker. A '90s version of Sayama in more ways than one.

 

Late '80s/early '90s JWP sounds like the most hidden-gem-e-riffic promotion that's semi-available on tape. It was the #2 joshi promotion and didn't have the incredible physical pace of its more popular competitor, so it was mostly ignored in its first incarnation. Watching it now I think people would appreciate the more deliberate style.

 

It's not remotely the case here or at DVDVR, but a ton of the Memphis guys get dismissed by a lot of people as being all talk and no ring skill. Lots of people will dismiss Jerry Lawler as a guy who did nothing but talk and punch. Loss and I have gone over our unease with some of heel Lawler's shtick but that simply isn't remotely true. Also, there are too many good Austin Idol matches for him to be dismissed as all talk.

 

Billy Black is the great lost worker of the '90s. He and Joel Deaton should have been a cornerstone of AJPW mid-card tags, but Deaton was kind of nuts and Black was a complete loon with absolutely no reliability. He looked like a pudgy Global mid-carder and wrestled like a '90s junior heavyweight.

[Tim Evans]

Overrated: I'll probably say Misawa. He was real good but I like him less than Kobashi and Kawada. I haven't seen much Taue but what I've seen of Taue, I like him more than Misawa. I should say that the All Japan style is right up there with Shoot Style as the style I lke the least.

 

Underrated: Brian Christopher and Tommy Rich. I"ve been watching a lot of mid 90's USWA lately and both guys are highlights. I loved Brian's 92 run as a cocky heel. He was better than HBK at the time. When he turned babyface in 93, I thought that would be a mistake but he pulled it off well. Brian could do it all, wrestle with Taka and then brawl with the Moondogs and Billy Travis. It's a shame drugs screwed him up in the WWF. Tommy Rich was a good babyface in the 80's but he was a even better heel in the 90's. Also he is one of the best managers of all time for his FBI run

[BillThompson]

Overrated - I want to say Shawn Michaels, because I've really come to think very little of him as a worker. He's essentially an early version of Randy Orton, perfectly serviceable singles wrestler who fails to deliver when he has to carry the match or it's not a gimmick match. That's too easy though, so I'm going to say Paul Heyman, as both a promoter and an on-air talent. Not only did ECW do terrible business, but I find so much of their product and his booking decisions horrendous. As an on-air talent he can talk, but how often does he really help his charges? He did back with the Alliance, I'll give him that. But modern Heyman isn't really needed for Brock, and he did nothing at all to help either Axel or Cesaro.

 

Underrated- This is a tough one because there are plenty of workers I consider underrated. But, I'm not sure if me thinking they are underrated actually jives with them being underrated online. I'll say Jerry Lawler. There are certain pockets of people that love the guy and have discovered his work and why he's one of the best of all time. But, there are far more people who seem to dismiss him as a guy who could never wrestle.

[jpchicago23]

Double post

[jpchicago23]

Tim, you mentioned two things I thought I was alone on. Not being high on AJ style and loving Christopher. I've been watching a lot of 95 USWA and he is so fun. I've always liked his early WWF stuff too

[ohtani's jacket]

For overrated, I've got to go with Negro Casas. He used to be a great worker and an absolute genius, but that was in the 90s. I don't enjoy his current persona with the nickname and the theme music, and the comedy and the stupid parrot. Especially the parrot. I don't like the cookie cutter style he works with young guys or his offence, and I don't like the trio he's a part of. He's excellent when he works against Rush, and to a lesser extent Blue Panther, but it's not a patch on the old Casas. And I don't just mean physically. His psychology is nowhere near as impressive as it used to be.

 

For underrated, it has to be Breaks, Grey, Roberts, Rudge, Roach... all of the British workers.

[Coffey]

Underrated, there's a lot of people I want to name-drop. One Man Gang, Tito Santana, Butch Reed, Adrian Adonis, Bam Bam Bigelow. Actually, I feel like a lot of the bigger wrestlers are underrated as a whole due to working the big man style, especially in the United States. Now, more so than ever, if feels like if you're not doing high spots, the crowds turn on you. Obviously Bam Bam isn't in that category but the thought just occured to me.

 

Overrated, the first person that came to mind (and this won't be popular) was Owen Hart. I think after his tragic, early death a lot of people started acting like he was better than he was. I never really got into him, ever. Everyone in wrestling talks about how great of a person he was and I don't doubt that but on-screen, he just bored me. I didn't want to see him.

[The Chief]

Owen was anything but boring, he had so much natural instinct, everything he did looked so effortless without coming across as lazy. Care to elaborate?

[Matt D]

Poor Sting is underrated.

[thebrainfollower]

I'd agree. Sting seems to be PWO's whipping boy at times.

 

 

Watching WM 11 this morning, is there any wrestler ever more selfish and unprofessional IN RING than Shawn Michaels from 94 to the injury? Kevin Nash is his best friend and I lost count at the number of times Shawn threw a tantrum or went out of his way to make Nash look bad, including the worst powerbomb I've seen in a while.

[Loss]

Even Nash acknowledges that, which he seems to write off as just Shawn taking care of his business.

 

My theory is that Shawn felt like he was the best guy in the business for years but didn't get pushed as the top guy, so he had a major chip on his shoulder and was out to sabotage everyone else in the ring because he was angry about his card placement.