Toshiaki Kawada

[Jetlag]

Kawada being a bad 70s wannabe may be the most alien thing I've ever heard. Sure you are talking about the guy who spin kicks, stomps people on the back of their heads when doing a leg crab and doesn't do worked punches at all? Or is "doing holds and going long" something that belongs in the 70s in general? I don't recall him doing any Destroyer-style teases of the Stretch Plum. Atleast now I have a motivation to watch those 60 minute matches again....

[JerryvonKramer]

I guess the point is that I don't think he's particularly great at "doing holds and going long".

 

I mean, to my own list, it won't matter a whole ton, he's lock top 10.

 

But I'm just putting some of my conclusions from watching the stuff out there.

[ohtani's jacket]

I would say that Kawada was better at working holds than Jumbo, Misawa or Kobashi, but not working holds that keep Parv awake.

[Boss Rock]

Kawada is currently a top 2-3 contender for me. He was arguably the best of the pillars '90-'92 with his rivalry with Taue really being the driving point of those amazing trios matches.And even if Kobashi and Misawa surpassed him later on, he was still right there in the conversation for best in the world. He was also the one most likely to try different things, mainly due to his desire to work more submission and shoot-based stuff in matches which butted heads with Baba. That's why I love his post-pillars run so much. He would have awesome pseudo-BattlArts matches with guys like Naoya Ogawa and Nagai while also having terrific Kings Road-esque bouts with Kojima, Tenzan, Tenryu, Sasaki, and Omori. The Holy Demon Army is also one of the greatest tag teams of all time. Sure, most of their best matches were against Kobashi, Jun, and Misawa, but those are still arguably the greatest tag matches ever. Not to mention he and Taue would also put on bangers against teams like Shinzaki and Hayabusa.

My only main criticism of Kawada would be that his leg selling, which he was once very good at, pretty much fell by the wayside later on in his career (*stares at the Mutoh matches). The Misawa matches also lost a bit of their luster in the late 90's, but most of them were still very good.

[Microstatistics]

1 minute ago, Boss Rock said:

 

My only main criticism of Kawada would be that his leg selling, which he was once very good at, pretty much fell by the wayside later on in his career (*stares at the Mutoh matches). The Misawa matches also lost a bit of their luster in the late 90's, but most of them were still very good.

Kawada's leg selling reputation is the most undeserved in wrestling history. 1 extraordinary performance (12/3/1993) doesn't compensate for multiple wildly inconsistent, if not outright poor, performances. Kobashi was magnitudes better.

[strobogo]

One thing I never understood was why he had a reputation as being a stoic guy. Misawa is obviously the stoic one and Kawada was very prone to intention emotional outbursts in matches all the way from the Revolution days to the end of his career. 

[Jmare007]

The most consistent pillar, the one with the most longevity as a good-top performer and the most versatile (as much as those guys could be). Only reason I tend to put him below Misawa is because of the elbow throwing bastard's ridiculous 90-97 run which I still believe is the best peak ever but every time I read or hear a case in favor of Kawada I end up agreeing with basically everything.

18 minutes ago, strobogo said:

One thing I never understood was why he had a reputation as being a stoic guy. Misawa is obviously the stoic one and Kawada was very prone to intention emotional outbursts in matches all the way from the Revolution days to the end of his career. 

First time reading about this. Kawada always seemed to be seen as the "pissed off one" out of the pillars as far I can recall.

[Boss Rock]

Yeah Kawada was always the angry one.

[Makai Club #1]

If I had a criticism against Kawada, it would be how his selling became more of a self conscious thing that'd he put into a match just to have it. It was basically one of his signature spots. If you're going to a show to see Kawada, that's one of the things you're paying for essentially. Perhaps that's a little smarky for the 90s All Japan audience (maybe not). It's the equivalent of getting your shit in. Other than that, I love almost everything about him and his matches.

Similar to how I think about Hansen, Kawada is someone who, not matter the match quality, is someone always value for time. I can watch one of his famous Misawa matches or a random match against Tamon Honda and get so much enjoy out of watching Kawada doing his thing. And of course, he has the incredible match resume on top of being a must see wrestler. Excellent in tags, excellent in singles matches, had a very good post peak career, having quality matches against Sasaki, Kojima, Hashimoto, the tags with Fuchi, and there are some gems of his before he became the wrestler we know Kawada to be. I don't think anyone will displace him from my #1 spot. It'll depend on how I see Okada in a few years time. 

[elliott]

I ranked Toshiaki Kawada 18th in 2016 and I have nothing further to add about Kawada. 

[KB8]

Kawada was my number 6 in 2016. He won't be that high next time, but he's someone I think is very good at the pro wrestling despite me being at the point where I don't really love the sort of style he was great at. He had lots of very good matches! He'll be someone's number 1, or perhaps the number 1 of many someones. There's really nothing else I feel like I need to say about the guy. 

 

TOSHIAKI KAWADA MATCHES YOU SHOULD WATCH:

w/Genichiro Tenryu v Stan Hansen & Terry Gordy (All Japan, 12/16/88)

w/Ricky Fuyuki v Can-Am Express (All Japan, 6/5/89)

w/Genichiro Tenryu & Ricky Fuyuki v Giant Baba, Rusher Kimura & Masa Fuchi (All Japan, 9/15/89)

v Akira Taue (All Japan, 1/15/91)

w/Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi v Jumbo Tsuruta, Akira Taue & Masa Fuchi (All Japan, 4/20/91)

w/Mitsuharu Misawa v Jumbo Tsuruta & Akira Taue (All Japan, 11/29/91)

v Stan Hansen (All Japan, 2/28/93)

v Jun Akiyama (All Japan, 7/9/93)

w/Akira Taue v Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi (All Japan, 12/3/93)

v Steve Williams (All Japan, 4/16/94)

w/Akira Taue v Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi (All Japan, 5/21/94)

v Mitsuharu Misawa (All Japan, 6/3/94)

w/Akira Taue v Mitsuharu Misawa & Kenta Kobashi (All Japan, 6/9/95)

v Mitsuharu Misawa (All Japan, 7/24/95)

v Gary Albright (All Japan, 10/25/95)

w/Akira Taue v Mitsuharu Misawa & Jun Akiyama (All Japan, 12/6/96)

v Kenta Kobashi (All Japan, 6/12/98)

w/Genichiro Tenryu v Stan Hansen & Taiyo Kea (All Japan, 7/23/00)

v Kensuke Sasaki (New Japan, 10/9/00)

v Genichiro Tenryu (All Japan, 10/28/00)

w/Nobutaka Araya v Genichiro Tenryu & Masa Fuchi (All Japan, 6/30/01)

v Naoya Ogawa (Zero-1, 12/14/03)

v Shinya Hashimoto (All Japan, 2/22/04)

v Katsuyori Shibata (New Japan, 11/3/04)

v Satoshi Kojima (All Japan, 2/16/05)

[DylanZero]

I love Kawada, but as great as his wrestling was it was moreso his overall arc as a wrestler and character and man in the shadow of Misawa. His tragic character arc was what bought my investment and made his inevitable long title run so cool. I also always appreciated that he was the one pillar/Japanese wrestling legend in general who didn't go out as a miserable shell of himself who could barely move. He was still having good matches and still Kawada until his very last year, even though he wasn't where was a decade-2 decades prior, he still held up pretty well. It says something that he has that kind of longevity over his contemporaries and makes him a worthy top 5-10 pick.

[Clayton Jones]

I would argue Taue went out far less miserable, Kawada looked like he was cashing checks and nothing more for a good bit towards the end, but I get your point. Taue looked consumed with grief and was much more broken down but I still think he was enjoying working up until the end.

[DylanZero]

Oh yeah I just meant in terms of match quality and how they wrestled. Taue was completely broken down for years and more like the president. On a personal level Taue's retirement show was very good and ended with a great moment. But his last "Taue" performance was with Maru in 2006. Kobashi & Misawa both shells of themselves. Even Kawada's mentor Tenryu who was also an incredible old guy wrestler before went out barely being able to move and Okada having to work around him. Kawada still had a really good match with Sekimoto at the start of 2010 with Sekimoto in Zero1 and he still looked like himself, just older.

 

I remember he did one of those talk battles with Tenryu at one of his Produce shows where he was talking about how he was hurting and Misawa's death took a lot of his passion out. I definitely don't think he was passionate anymore (and it's hard to blame him) but I don't think he ever stopped being Kawada in the ring compared to the other guys, at least to me.

[Tetsujin]

I've been thinking about Kawada recently. While last time's GWE talk was about Kawada-Kobashi, I would say, to me at least, Kobashi is pretty confortable ahead of him, and Kawada is a lot closer to Misawa in my provisional list. They both feel like top 10 contenders that might be right outside of it.

[GOTNW]

I've been on a Kawada kick lately, so let's revisit him a bit. His strengths are well known-here's a guy who is going to full on slap someone straight in their face, stomp on their head while holding them in a Half Crab, kick them in the back while they're laying on the floor as hard he can and turn into an elite puncher once he loses his temper. These things, and his general demeanor, attitude and lack of teeth create the idea of Kawada. It's really cool and it's fair to say that he is generally also really good at bringing it to life.

Now, for some negatives. His selling gets goofy. I have a hunch it got worse at time went by because in the 1998 Hase match it was significantly worse than in the 93 Misawa TC match I watched. Structurally his failed firing up could add to matches but often he would either go overboard with it to the point it would look cartoony or time it badly. While I'm talking about Hase, I think he did a much better job of using that type of selling in their match (and outperformed him in general). Timing is something that also bothered me with how he'd use his Powerbomb, where he'd just throw them out there: either without really teasing them, or (which bothered me way more) without the proper build-up, at points in the match where it just didn't fit and add to the match as much as it should've. This bothered me both in the Hase match (he Powerbombed Hase to complete silence) and in the Misawa one (where they just didn't work for me as big moments or nearfalls).

He can also get sloppy, with poor form on kicking and those short knees to clunky moves on the mat. Speaking of which, I appreciate his willingness to sometimes lean into shooty tendencies, but he wasn't very good at it. Watching him submit Honda with a terrible looking Toe Hold hurt me spiritually. He had an amateur background and could definitely follow the lead of someone who knew what they were doing (Honda, Hase, Ilyukhin) but I don't think crocodile tears should be shed over the AJPW-UWFi feud not happening or Kawada not working more U-Style.

I might have more to add later (e.g. I was absolutely not a fan of how the Vader match was structured and was severly disappointed by it) when something clicks in my head but still. It's Kawada. He'll be fine.

[Ma Stump Puller]

27 minutes ago, GOTNW said:

I've been on a Kawada kick lately, so let's revisit him a bit. His strengths are well known-here's a guy who is going to full on slap someone straight in their face, stomp on their head while holding them in a Half Crab, kick them in the back while they're laying on the floor as hard he can and turn into an elite puncher once he loses his temper. These things, and his general demeanor, attitude and lack of teeth create the idea of Kawada. It's really cool and it's fair to say that he is generally also really good at bringing it to life.

Now, for some negatives. His selling gets goofy. I have a hunch it got worse at time went by because in the 1998 Hase match it was significantly worse than in the 93 Misawa TC match I watched. Structurally his failed firing up could add to matches but often he would either go overboard with it to the point it would look cartoony or time it badly. While I'm talking about Hase, I think he did a much better job of using that type of selling in their match (and outperformed him in general). Timing is something that also bothered me with how he'd use his Powerbomb, where he'd just throw them out there: either without really teasing them, or (which bothered me way more) without the proper build-up, at points in the match where it just didn't fit and add to the match as much as it should've. This bothered me both in the Hase match (he Powerbombed Hase to complete silence) and in the Misawa one (where they just didn't work for me as big moments or nearfalls).

He can also get sloppy, with poor form on kicking and those short knees to clunky moves on the mat. Speaking of which, I appreciate his willingness to sometimes lean into shooty tendencies, but he wasn't very good at it. Watching him submit Honda with a terrible looking Toe Hold hurt me spiritually. He had an amateur background and could definitely follow the lead of someone who knew what they were doing (Honda, Hase, Ilyukhin) but I don't think crocodile tears should be shed over the AJPW-UWFi feud not happening or Kawada not working more U-Style.

I might have more to add later (e.g. I was absolutely not a fan of how the Vader match was structured and was severly disappointed by it) when something clicks in my head but still. It's Kawada. He'll be fine.

This relating to their 1996 singles match? Super agree with that, I was pretty high on that until that spot: just sucked the life out of the crowd and didn't look at all convincing. He's fine when it comes to shooty stand-up but grappling tends to be a weird avenue for him in general.

 

 

 

[ohtani's jacket]

Kawada's matwork is perfect for his character. I don't know if he would have been able to hang in UWF-i, definitely not against the younger guys like Sakuraba and Tamura. He probably would have been fine against the older guys like Takada, Yamazaki, and Anjoh. Kawada vs. Sano would have been amazing. It would have been a hell of a lot more interesting than what he achieved by staying in AJPW. And don't get me started on fucking Honda. 

[Ma Stump Puller]

2 hours ago, ohtani's jacket said:

Kawada's matwork is perfect for his character. I don't know if he would have been able to hang in UWF-i, definitely not against the younger guys like Sakuraba and Tamura. He probably would have been fine against the older guys like Takada, Yamazaki, and Anjoh. Kawada vs. Sano would have been amazing. It would have been a hell of a lot more interesting than what he achieved by staying in AJPW. And don't get me started on fucking Honda. 

To add on to this, I watched his one and only UWF-I match against Takayama (shitty bootleg, impossible to find in a official capacity) and I would have to agree with this. Compelling striking, big heat, competent technical work. It's just that him on the mat working submissions or whatever is a definitive weakness of his that he just isn't made for. He can work defensively (as in, blocking holds, countering subs with his own) but him on top trying to do convincing mat work is not very good, and he'd be eaten up by guys like Sakuraba as you stated.

His Takayama bout leans into this as it's more just him using a lot of ground and pound in that regard and less about him actually trying to work a serious mat game. When he's trying to do that like with his Honda match.....that's when things tend to fall apart a little bit.

 

 

[Reel]

Isn't he kinda bad in his U-Style match with Ilyukhin? Don't really remember much of it, except thinking, 'yeah Kawada doesn't really need to do this stuff. He's Kawada.' 

 

[ohtani's jacket]

I don't have a problem with Kawada's matwork in that Takayama match. He mostly works pro-wrestling holds, and they're really just an excuse for him to lay in some stomps, but that's exactly what you'd expect from a pro-wrestler in that sort of environment. I wouldn't expect some Pancrase looking shit. The only shoot-style holds he knew were the arm breaker and probably some Takada-style leglocks. If anything, I'm less convinced by him using a series of enzuigiris to put Takayama away. I think Kawada would have been decent in spectacle matches. I doubt he would have gone full Sano and learnt the style. He would have been able to make the stretch plum look convincing. Of the top of my head, I can't think of any of Kawada's contemporaries who would have fared better crossing over into the UWF-i. Akiyama may have been a better mat wrestler, but I'm not sure. 

[Ma Stump Puller]

8 hours ago, Reel said:

Isn't he kinda bad in his U-Style match with Ilyukhin? Don't really remember much of it, except thinking, 'yeah Kawada doesn't really need to do this stuff. He's Kawada.' 

 

I wouldn't say "bad" as such a strong word but yeah, at that point the style was way above his head. There's some obvious disconnect in how he works on the mat where he doesn't really seem to take initiative when it would make sense to do so. He's fine enough as a "fish out of water" pro-wres in a shooty world and his selling as always is pretty good but him just hurling out random backdrop drivers was always going to bug people out.