Andre the Giant

[Grimmas]

Discuss here.

[Goodear]

I think the thing I picked up the most watching early Andre was how good he could be executing limb work. Just the guy grabbing a hold of someone's arm could be very effective with the consideration of how powerful he was presented. All in all, I have him slotted low in my top 100 and he very well may fall off as time goes on and more people are reviewed. There simply doesn't seem to be the amount of tape of him being even just past his prime physically as opposed to being almost immobile. That said, a very intelligent worker probably with some of the best economy of movement you will ever see. Granted a lot of that wasn't by choice but it is what it is.

[JerryvonKramer]

I will probably represent Andre in my top 100. Special sort of worker, who was able to maintain a certain aura right up till his death. I think other workers in his size range (think of El Gigante) have shown that working as a giant isn't just about being big. Andre was the master at it. I'd actually like to see Matt breaking down some of those Collosal Connection performances he's so high on.

 

The standard wisdom is that Andre was "better than you'd expect" when young but then old and broken down past 86. Depending on how convincing the arguments about him "working smart" are, Andre could go as high as the late 60s for me.

[Matt D]

This is from 2010, Parv, which feels like FOREVER and a day ago, so I don't want you to hold this against me too much, but it'll give you an idea. It's not how I'd write up the match now. But hey, I was still in my 20s then. The main point is that he had a certain value built up in the eyes of the fan. Wrestling is all about perception. The Cobra is a perfectly viable finishing move. Even the people's elbow, so long as it's sold as such over time. The fans believed that Andre just touching someone could cause mayhem because of how those people sold and how Andre used it. He was so limited that he made every movement he had mean something, and I think he full well knew the vocabulary he could write with given how the crowd was conditioned to feel.

 

 

 

So here's another opinion I can't shake. I think that late 80s Andre is just amazing as a worker. He was completely immobile but he had an incredible presence and he worked so, so smart. He couldn't do much so he made sure everything he did do mattered as much as humanly possible within the psychological context of the match. That's worth a million bucks, right there. I don't think there's anyone in the world that thinks more highly of the SNME Warrior/Andre than me. I think that match won the WON Worst Worked Match of the Year in 89 and that's just absurd. It had a great story and was so smartly worked. It's aged great.

BUT we're talking about Demolition here. We're talking about Demolition vs Andre and Haku. I'm sure we'll cover the Colossal Connection Title Win Squash because it's a remarkable and unique Demolition match. This is very shortly thereafter and the Demos want revenge. This is late era Andre and guess what, it's a really smart, really fun match. Of course it is.

The story of the match is simple. The Demos want revenge. The Demos want their titles back. They're the well-oiled machine. The Colossal Connection is something else. They play on the fact that Andre is increasingly immobile, that he's the ultimate weapon to be used at exactly the right time. Haku is to stay in the match until it is absolutely necessary to tag in the force of nature that is Andre. Their teamwork is not smooth. It is not supposed to be smooth. They're still nigh-unbeatable. There's actually a Colossal Connection/Rockers match out there that shows this off beautifully. In that match, the Rockers are doing fine vs Haku and die instantly and dramatically the second Andre gets tagged in. Ax and Smash are NOT the Rockers however.

So Haku tries to fight them off from the get go and he does pretty well with strikes and kicks until the Demos get him into their corner. The thing you have to understand about Demolition doubleteams is that for the most part they're not going to do fancy moves. What they are going to do are lots of quick tags where they come in and beat on their opponent as much as possible. Poor Haku gets this in droves. There's a great moment in here where Smash taunts at Andre and Andre makes this awesome bestial nose in response.

Anyway, Haku hits an awesome kick counter out of an arm-wringer and makes the tag to Andre who promptly misses a big butt drop. He's down and Demos take right back over. Quick tags and clubbering to a prone Andre. Andre in 89 was presented as an absolute force of nature. If he touched you, your internal organs blew up. It was awesome, trust me. It's awesome here. Demos clubber. Andre gets in a kick. Demos fall. Demos come back in to clubber. Andre hits a punch from the ground. Demos fall. And repeat. Eventually, Andre makes it up and tags in Haku allowing the Colossals to take over for a while, until Haku misses an Andre-assisted Splash in the corner on Ax. Andre is just sensational here. He had pinned Ax into the corner with his body and slowly walks away as Haku charges in only to miss. Andre, however, is doing this weird little dance and laughing at Smash, thinking that the move was successful. Every little thing he did at this point was just gold.

The hot tag that follows leads us eventually into a big brawl and finish. Andre hits the headbutt of doom on Smash, knocking him to the outside for the countout. Demos get their heat back by decapitating Haku after the match, keeping the feud building towards Wrestlemania VI. Really fun match and wildly different from yesterday's match. Great presence all around.

 

[Lee Casebolt]

Andre will probably make my top 25 unless someone points out an anti-treasure trove of prime Andre that's terrible. Andre always felt like an Event. Mastered doing more with less when his body was breaking down after having been stunningly athletic in his younger days. And Andre's the only guy in wrestling who could make me look forward to a battle royal.

[goodhelmet]

Andre is in consideration but isn't a lock.

[BillThompson]

He'll make my list, but I need to think about his later career output to figure out where on my list. I can't fully get behind Matt's position, because while I recognize that Andre was doing what he needed to do in his late matches, that doesn't make it interesting or good wrestling. Still, there is the early footage that we do have where most of the time he comes out looking like gangbusters, and that footage is more than enough for him to place on my list.

[khawk20]

If you haven't seen Andre vs. Mad Dog Vachon from 1972 it's worth checking out. He had a really long match in Japan vs. Kobayashi from June 1972 and another 6-man in that time frame that are worth checking out as well.

[Lee Casebolt]

If it's the six man I'm thinking of, Andre takes a couple spills from the apron out into the crowd. Watching some poor schmuck in the first row seeing Andre fall into his lap is hysterically funny.

[Grimmas]

Andre was voted a clear lock on this week's Super Show with Dave Musgrave and Tim Livingston. We do a Wrestler Snapshot on him and were blown away by how smart of a worker he was, even with severe health problems.

 

I stated on the podcast that Andre could be top 20 or bottom 20, but he will be on my list.

 

https://soundcloud.com/jerryvonkramer/pwss36

 

Sorry about sound quality.

[WingedEagle]

Just watched the Hansen & Khan matches from NJPW. Hansen is obviously a MOTYC and Khan is a legit *** affair as well. Meanwhile, mobile/athletic Andre is something straight out of a movie or video game. Just a legit gaijin Godzilla. What other matches from this era are available and must see?

[GOTNW]

I love the Hansen match but I don't think it's the all time classic I've seem it pimped as. I think he's been solid to good in everything I've watched from him but if he doesn't have more stuff on that level I don't see a chance for him.

[Grimmas]

I love the Hansen match but I don't think it's the all time classic I've seem it pimped as. I think he's been solid to good in everything I've watched from him but if he doesn't have more stuff on that level I don't see a chance for him.

I have the Hansen match at 5 stars and the Khan match at 4 1/2.

 

There is the great Strong Koboyashi match. That Harley match that appeared on NWA Classics is pretty awesome too.

[WingedEagle]

Any more recs? Haven't seen a ton that's highly touted.

[conker8]

His feud with Killer Khan (1982).

 

Not praise but his series with Inoki (1977/06/01), (77/11/09) and (78/05/30) might worth a look.

[Childs]

The Inoki feud runs all the way into the '80s, and it's definitely worth a look if you want to study Andre as a charismatic heel (he did a great little taunting dance in one of their later matches). But no, none of the matches were classics.

[WingedEagle]

Thanks, will definitely look into the Inoki matches. Absolutely loved how he worked heel against Khan.

[Grimmas]

I think looking for Andre classics will be hard, since most of his prime was not taped.

 

Since the amount of great matches someone has had is not a huge deal to me, the work I see out of Andre makes me really high on him. His performances against Khan and Hansen showed how awesome he was in that setting. Add in the Harley and Kobayashi matches as evidence how he can work a more traditional technical style too. Some people don't like his 80's stuff in the WWF, especially the late 80's stuff but I think he was a really smart worker in those and a ton of fun, even if the matches didn't always pan out.

 

I may be the high vote on Andre and I am ok with that. There isn't too many wrestlers I'd rather watch than him.

[ghost]

I have just been watching a few post-87 Andre matches and whilst I could not call them great and retain any credibility; his ability to work smartly within his limitations and make every movement count cannot be under-sold. His ability to interact with the crowd, his facial expressions, and other little things like that are excellent. Even from the earliest matches oh his I have seen from 1972, he was an incredibly smart wrestler with brilliant timing; he could play the stooging, chicken shit heel or the monster, and he was also an expert in drawing sympathy from the crowd and making it believable when he was in danger - not an easy thing to do as a Giant.

 

Not really a classic but his match with Blackwell is fun, short and sweet, but worth a watch.

[bradhindsight]

I really enjoy Andre's work in tags. I've seen a couple from the 70s and he just carries them - even if he's not in the match for the majority of the time. The Atlantic City match is a good example and there's also 6/27/77 where he's against Patera and Volkoff that is excellent.

[Childs]

Andre working comedy spots with Hoshino in a tag match was one of my (many) favorite things from the NJ set. I came away from that project believing Andre was a legitimately great, versatile wrestler. Nothing I've seen since has dissuaded that view.

[El-P]

The more you watch Andre prior to his WWF days, the more it gets obvious the guy was a tremendous worker. Could work serious brawl, comedy, babyface, heel. Totally would make my list.

[WingedEagle]

Night and day with this guy when looking at his work before most of us were introduced to him. Last night I watched him against Hansen from 1979. This was nearly 2 years before their classic, but this was about as great a 7-8 minute frenzied brawl as you'll find and should absolutely be viewed before the more famous iteration. Andre absolute destroys himself with a headbutt to the post. Also features one of my all time favorite visuals of a crowd sprinting away from the wrestlers near the end. Its on New Japan World and should be seen by all.

[Jimmy Redman]

I am all in on Andre. Footage issues aren't something I care about if you can paint a picture with what's there, and what's there shows just how great Andre was at the pro wrestling. Glimpses of him in his physical prime show a force of nature. He is literally other worldly in the way he looks and moves and wrestles. The way he throws his body around is just absurd for a guy his size.

 

So many giants of vaguely comparable size come off as lumbering oafs. They're hard to knock down, but in turn they don't really offer up much offense, because they're so slow and cumbersome. But with Andre, when he goes on the attack he gives the impression that he could kill someone without even realising it. He seems so powerful. I can remember watching him do the over-the-shoulder armbreaker on Hansen in their match, and Andre's hands take up like Stan's whole arm, and it looks like Andre could snap it in half at any moment if he so chose. And Stan is a big guy.

 

His late 80s WWF career is so great at showing just how smart he was, and just how effective he was at getting the most out of his limited physical ability. I'm such a big fan of this run. The Hogan match is legitimately great in my eyes, just a perfect spectacle match. Andre is so awesome in the first Survivor Series main event, just being a total prick, and generally in this whole run Andre is a great character, heeling it up all over the place. He uses that, his aura and some well-timed shots to create some entertaining matches even when he could barely walk around. Seeing what he can do in 1990 shows just how much this is a mental game, and when you look at guys who have more physical tools than almost anyone on earth and do absolutely nothing compelling with them...another argument perhaps, but it shows you just how much Andre "got it" and how complete a wrestler he was.

 

Andre vs Stan is one of my favourite ever matches. I think he's the best big man ever. He's in my 20s at the moment.

[JerryvonKramer]

Andre has so many disappointing matches it is quite incredible.

 

Was a long talking point about this on last Titans.

 

Another guy who gets a very easy run of it. I've watch so many crappy Andre matches it's unreal.