When did the IC title nose dive for you?

[Sidebottom]

Good shout. I completely forgot they did away with it completely for a while.

[Blazer]

Easy one for me....April of '94 when Diesel beat Razor to win the strap.

 

Forget everything that happened to Diesel after that. Up until that point, he had wrestled in a LIMITED capacity. He was basically a bodyguard, and everyone knew he was Vinnie Vegas from a few years back. That was the first time they really strapped someone with the IC belt that absolutely had no business holding a title yet.

[JerryvonKramer]

For me it was when Pat Patterson won it in Rio. Before that it was a really important main event title defended all around Brazil and Argentina. Titanes En El Ring was built around the IC title in the 1960s. Martín Karadagián is probably the greatest IC champion of all time. The belt lost all credibility when it found its way to New York.

[Smack2k]

For me it was when Pat Patterson won it in Rio. Before that it was a really important main event title defended all around Brazil and Argentina. Titanes En El Ring was built around the IC title in the 1960s. Martín Karadagián is probably the greatest IC champion of all time. The belt lost all credibility when it found its way to New York.

 

Good point Parv….people always forget the class in Brazil for that title in its heyday...

 

Still a point of argument as to why none of their stars were involved in the tournament that Patterson won to bring it back to the US….They've been screaming foul in South America ever since...

[MikeCampbell]

It's never really nosedived for me. There were periods when I couldn't have cared less about it, Santino's first run, Curtis Axel, Mysterio holding it for no special reason. But, I can think of plenty of times that I've been interested in the title picture. Kofi's first run and that nice mid-card feud with Paul Birchall, Santino and the Honk-o-Meter, Punk chasing Regal, and even recently with Ziggler and Miz.

[C.S.]

The answer for me is when WWF bought WCW and a whole second set of belts were added. After that, none of them meant a damn thing.

 

Anyone criticizing Jarrett's I-C reign is guilty of putting on some serious revisionist goggles. At the time, he was definitely considered a rising star - not necessarily a guaranteed future main eventer (especially with that silly country music gimmick), but certainly someone on the level of other recent I-C Champs at the time. PWI and all of those mags pushed him hard too when he was in Memphis. Jarrett's reputation didn't really decline until his botched run with the Horsemen, and even then, his subsequent return to the WWF was still somewhat of an event. Despite Austin's refusal to work with him, he was a hot upper midcard heel during that run. I personally always thought Austin was wrong, BTW. At that time, a Stone Cold/Double J feud could have been very good. His second WCW run and TNA were disasters that exposed his limitations badly, but before that, he was a really effective heel in the months leading up to the Chyna feud.

[goodhelmet]

This just shows the difference in age...

 

the day Honky Tonk Man pinned Ricky Steamboat.

[Johnny Guitar]

I don;t feel it took a nosedive, but I think the IC title took a big hit in 1995.

 

As you all know. Up until that point. Nobody had done the three peat with the belt. There should have been some mileage gained for someone being billed as the first 3 time Intercontinental champion.

 

But by years end end not only had 3 men become the 3 time IC champions. One of them had become the first 4 time IC champion. And none of the guys involved really benefited from it, due to poor promotion.

[C.S.]

This just shows the difference in age...

 

the day Honky Tonk Man pinned Ricky Steamboat.

 

I thought of that one, but honestly, the WWF sold the hell out of it by giving him such a long reign. Agree or disagree with the choice of champion, at least it meant something and everyone - the fans and the booker(s) - gave a shit. When he lost the title finally, it was a huge moment and it can be argued somewhat that Warrior was "made" because of it (I wouldn't go that far necessarily, but it didn't hurt). Compare that to the past decade or so, where the I-C Title hasn't rmattered.

[Johnny Sorrow]

 

 

This just shows the difference in age...

 

the day Honky Tonk Man pinned Ricky Steamboat.

I thought of that one, but honestly, the WWF sold the hell out of it by giving him such a long reign. Agree or disagree with the choice of champion, at least it meant something and everyone - the fans and the booker(s) - gave a shit. When he lost the title finally, it was a huge moment and it can be argued somewhat that Warrior was "made" because of it (I wouldn't go that far necessarily, but it didn't hurt). Compare that to the past decade or so, where the I-C Title hasn't rmattered.

Yeah, that was a big part of me getting out of wrestling for awhile but it didn't affect the title.

[Ricky Jackson]

Warrior over Honky for the IC title totally made Warrior. Before, I thought he was cool, but he had been around for about a year and really wasn't doing much. After the win, the rocket was strapped and he became one of the focal points of the promotion IMO

[Matt D]

I think Honky might be a guy deserving of reevaluation to be honest. A lot of the traditional strikes against him seem to be workrate-heavy ones. I'd be curious how some of his vulnerable heel champ shtick aged.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I think Honky might be a guy deserving of reevaluation to be honest. A lot of the traditional strikes against him seem to be workrate-heavy ones. I'd be curious how some of his vulnerable heel champ shtick aged.

Oh, looking back Honky was fucking awesome. It actually made the title seem REALLY important because people were pissed that this clown who's a total chicken shit was holding it and never losing.

My issue was that I had been so emotionally invested in Steamboat winning the belt for YEARS, as I'd been waiting to see it since 1984. Then after the greatest pay off ever in what was the greatest match ever against the greatest ever.. OOH YEAH!!!!!!

 

And then a month later he loses it on TV to the fucking Honky Tonk Man. It was the kickstarter to me slowly getting out of wrestling.

[Russellmania]

Ziggler jobbing to Orton in a non-title match is exactly the kind of bullshit that makes nobody care about this title. And I'm sure their thinking was "we need to make Orton look strong heading into the PPV". Problem with that is it's so close to the PPV that one win isn't going to really change anyone's mind about Orton. Also, nobody wants to see an Orton/Cena main event. They're not even in a program together. It's this short-sightedness that has fucked up the IC title and a lot of other things in the company. I mean you have Cesaro sitting there on commentary talking up how bad he wants to be champ and beat Ziggler....and then Orton wins making both Ziggler and Cesaro look like chumps. Add in the fact that Orton apparently has no interest in the IC title and it's no wonder it's basically a jobber title.

[Matt D]

Ziggler jobbing to Orton in a non-title match is exactly the kind of bullshit that makes nobody care about this title. And I'm sure their thinking was "we need to make Orton look strong heading into the PPV". Problem with that is it's so close to the PPV that one win isn't going to really change anyone's mind about Orton. Also, nobody wants to see an Orton/Cena main event. They're not even in a program together. It's this short-sightedness that has fucked up the IC title and a lot of other things in the company. I mean you have Cesaro sitting there on commentary talking up how bad he wants to be champ and beat Ziggler....and then Orton wins making both Ziggler and Cesaro look like chumps. Add in the fact that Orton apparently has no interest in the IC title and it's no wonder it's basically a jobber title.

 

Tag champs too.

[WingedEagle]

I used to be able to list off the IC / World Title histories from memory because changes were so rare. My ability to do so with the IC title definitely ended in the 98/99 era where it became a regular prop in 3/4 way matches with the hardcore title and seemingly changed hands regularly.

[goodhelmet]

 

This just shows the difference in age...

 

the day Honky Tonk Man pinned Ricky Steamboat.

 

I thought of that one, but honestly, the WWF sold the hell out of it by giving him such a long reign. Agree or disagree with the choice of champion, at least it meant something and everyone - the fans and the booker(s) - gave a shit. When he lost the title finally, it was a huge moment and it can be argued somewhat that Warrior was "made" because of it (I wouldn't go that far necessarily, but it didn't hurt). Compare that to the past decade or so, where the I-C Title hasn't rmattered.

 

 

 

 

 

This just shows the difference in age...

 

the day Honky Tonk Man pinned Ricky Steamboat.

I thought of that one, but honestly, the WWF sold the hell out of it by giving him such a long reign. Agree or disagree with the choice of champion, at least it meant something and everyone - the fans and the booker(s) - gave a shit. When he lost the title finally, it was a huge moment and it can be argued somewhat that Warrior was "made" because of it (I wouldn't go that far necessarily, but it didn't hurt). Compare that to the past decade or so, where the I-C Title hasn't rmattered.

Yeah, that was a big part of me getting out of wrestling for awhile but it didn't affect the title.

 

 

 

Warrior over Honky for the IC title totally made Warrior. Before, I thought he was cool, but he had been around for about a year and really wasn't doing much. After the win, the rocket was strapped and he became one of the focal points of the promotion IMO

 

 

I think Honky might be a guy deserving of reevaluation to be honest. A lot of the traditional strikes against him seem to be workrate-heavy ones. I'd be curious how some of his vulnerable heel champ shtick aged.

 

 

 

I think Honky might be a guy deserving of reevaluation to be honest. A lot of the traditional strikes against him seem to be workrate-heavy ones. I'd be curious how some of his vulnerable heel champ shtick aged.

Oh, looking back Honky was fucking awesome. It actually made the title seem REALLY important because people were pissed that this clown who's a total chicken shit was holding it and never losing.

My issue was that I had been so emotionally invested in Steamboat winning the belt for YEARS, as I'd been waiting to see it since 1984. Then after the greatest pay off ever in what was the greatest match ever against the greatest ever.. OOH YEAH!!!!!!

 

And then a month later he loses it on TV to the fucking Honky Tonk Man. It was the kickstarter to me slowly getting out of wrestling.

 

 

The title of the thread is "When did the IC title nose dive FOR YOU". This was step two in me losing interest in wrestling for a long time. Step one was puberty and a growth spurt. Step three was the Dusty booking ruining my enjoyment of the NWA product. I hung around for the Hogan-Savage stuff and bailed out of the NWA when Garvin lost the belt back to Flair and the Roadies didn't win the tag title.

[iamthedoctor]

For me it was when they did that farce in 1997 because it really degraded the belt by tossing it in the river.

 

If I had been asked the same question for the Euro belt would have said the same period of time because of how Shawn & Hunter just made a mockery of things in that Dec 97 match.

[sek69]

There were certainly times where it dipped in value, but it stopped being of any worth when they brought back Big Gold and that took the role the IC title had as belt for top level guys to feud over when the WWE title was elsewhere occupied. Having WWE and WHC titles made any other singles title meaningless, and now even when they are back to one belt WWE is too ingrained in their mindset of not giving a shit about secondary titles to do anything about it,

[Petey]

I feel like I was pretty much done with it after the Benoit/Angle/Jericho feud in 2000. Once WWF bought WCW and had 340 championships, it was done.

[Matt D]

I don't think we've gone through the numbers here somewhat but they're interesting.

title changes:

 

1980: 2

1981: 2

1982: 0

1983: 1

1984: 2

1985: 1

1986: 1

1987: 2

1988: 1

1989: 2

1990: 3 (vacated once)

1991: 1

1992: 5

1993: 3 (vacated once)

1994: 2

1995: 6 (vacated once, held up once)

1996: 5 (vacated twice)

1997: 6 (vacated twice)

1998: 2 (vacated once)

1999: 11

2000: 12 (two of those being Jericho/chyna weirdness)

2001: 12

[Grimmas]

I don't think we've gone through the numbers here somewhat but they're interesting.

title changes:

 

1980: 2

1981: 2

1982: 0

1983: 1

1984: 2

1985: 1

1986: 1

1987: 2

1988: 1

1989: 2

1990: 3 (vacated once)

1991: 1

1992: 5

1993: 3 (vacated once)

1994: 2

1995: 6 (vacated once, held up once)

1996: 5 (vacated twice)

1997: 6 (vacated twice)

1998: 2 (vacated once)

1999: 11

2000: 12 (two of those being Jericho/chyna weirdness)

2001: 12

So 99?

[cowboy hats]

Val Venis
February 14, 1999 Memphis, TN
In Your House: St. Valentine's Day Massacre

 

Road Dogg
March 15, 1999 San Jose, CA
Raw is War

 

Goldust
March 29, 1999 East Rutherford, NJ
Raw is War

 

The Godfather
April 12, 1999 Detroit, MI
Raw is War

 

Jeff Jarrett
May 25, 1999 Moline, IL
Raw is War

 

Edge
July 24, 1999 Toronto, ON
House show

 

Jeff Jarrett
July 25, 1999 Buffalo, NY
Fully Loaded

 

D'Lo Brown
July 27, 1999 Columbus, OH
Raw is War

 

Jeff Jarrett
August 22, 1999 Minneapolis, MN
SummerSlam

 

Chyna
October 17, 1999 Cleveland, OH
No Mercy

 

Chris Jericho
December 12, 1999 Sunrise, FL
Armageddon

 

 

In my house, the summer of '99 will always be remembered for Jeff Jarrett's IC title reigns.

[Badlittlekitten]

For me it was when tag team star Marty Jannety won it in 93. He was the first (babyface) guy, in my young fandom, that I couldn't picture hitting the main events after his int. Title run.

[Smack2k]

1996 was when it STARTED its DOWN FALL and NOSE DIVED...

 

Did it have era's afterward when the belt was good? Sure (Orton in 04, but the belt wasn't really the focus, his length was, his biggest feud was with Foley, which really wasn't focused on the belt at all / Rock in 1998 and the HHH feud), but it never had that "BIG" feel to it anymore..

 

Anyone near 40 or older remembers HOW IMPORTANT that title was before then…the early 90's the title started to slip a little but hadn't NOSE DIVED as the topic says yet. In the 80's and into early 90's, the title was either made to put on a guy that they had earmarked for stardom, and the feuds were about that belt and winning it….is some of it nostalgia for us? Sure…but NO FEUD post 96 for that title (except for MAYBE Rock / HHH) were about THAT title and between two guys that the WWF had marked for stardom…It started to become that "lets put it on this guy and see if it will help (Mero / HHH (in 96) / Maivia (in 97 when he was not over at all) / Austins win was done to show how "bad ass" Austin was and how he didn't care, not about the belt)…it had a little blip back up in 98 with Rock / HHH but once HHH was hurt, it went right back down and never came close to getting near its former glory..

 

Has it gotten worse over the years? Sure, but every title is like that now (I HATE that you can show up after a match for the WORLD TITLE (the biggest prize in the game) and quickly pin the guy and take the belt..I fuckin hate it…but that isn't what this is about..

 

I can't think of one (outside Rock / HHH) feud post 96 that had that "Wow, this is for the IC Title…this is BIG" feel to it…if that makes sense..

 

1996 when Ahmed got hurt, the belt began is NOSE DIVE and by the end of 96, it wasn't the same belt (in terms of meaning) anymore...