JerryvonKramer Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Four years ago, in June, we discussed the significance of a big loss. We were discussing how losses can damage careers. In this thread, I want to focus on the opposite: times when someone loses a big match but the process of losing in the match actually elevates them up the card. I watched one example last night: Stan Hansen vs. Kenta Kobashi (7/29/93) Seems to me like this sort of thing would happen much more in Japanese wrestling than in US wrestling where most of the examples I can think of are actually draws vs. a champ (see Sting vs. Flair, Clash 1). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Just to get it out of the way - Austin/Bret WrestleMania 13. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Just to get it out of the way - Austin/Bret WrestleMania 13. That and the Survivor Series 96 match. Both times Austin loses, but because he was so much lower than Bret going in, hanging with him til the end moved him up. One aspect is follow up. If Austin, after Mania 13, went on to lose matches to Goldust on the next show than it wouldn't had mattered. The key is, if you are elevated up the card then you have to be treated as up the card. For example Jeff Hardy had a ladder match with The Undertaker where he hung with him and it looked like a star making match. Afterwards he was booked right back where he was before the Taker match, so that Taker match didn't actually accomplish anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 DDP during that 97-98 period. He had losses to Savage, Sting and Goldberg in high profile situations and it just made you root even harder for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cross Face Chicken Wing Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Probably not what you're looking for, but any of Jericho's losses on Nitro while he was transitioning from "Lionheart" to Monday Night Jericho/Y2J. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheapshot Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Gedo representing WAR losing to Wild Pegasus in the Semi Finals of 1994 Super J Cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Misawa/Morishima in 2006 and Misawa/Kojima in 2004. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTLL Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Probably not what you're looking for, but any of Jericho's losses on Nitro while he was transitioning from "Lionheart" to Monday Night Jericho/Y2J. On the same page, Dean Malenko was the most over in his WCW career during his series of losses and Dusty finishes to Jericho, not his US Title win or being the first ace of the CW division (though he was pretty big during the latter). Sure, it was botched in the long run by never actually putting him all the way over, but hey, it's WCW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Bret Hart losing to Rick Steamboat at the Boston Garden, early in 1986 IIRC. I first saw that match on Prime Time Wrestling and thought Steamboat would squash him. By the end, I was half-convinced Hart could actually pull the giant upset. It's still one of my favourite matches and it really introduced me to Bret Hart outside of his at-the-time realm of tag team wrestling with the Hart Foundation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebrainfollower Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Bret with Savage on SNME did the same thing but on a much bigger stage. Shawn with Diesel at WM 11 but that was another example of Shawn's unprofessional BS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Bret with Savage on SNME did the same thing but on a much bigger stage. Yeah but for me I already knew how good Bret the singles wrestler could be from the Steamboat match so I never looked at that one quite the same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Michaels losing to Razor at Mania X. Granted it was because of all the unique spots he did with the ladder, but he was probably the hottest wrestler in North America coming out of that match Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Just to get it out of the way - Austin/Bret WrestleMania 13. That and the Survivor Series 96 match. Both times Austin loses, but because he was so much lower than Bret going in, hanging with him til the end moved him up. Something subtle Austin did after the SS match was not taking his eyes off Bret walking back up the ramp. It gave the impression to the viewer that: 1. Austin felt cheated by the quick roll up out of nowhere not being able to let go of his submission. 2. This matter was not over: Austin belonged at the top of the card and he was coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Surprised no one has mentioned Cena vs. Angle. Does Cena vs. Zayn count? Might be too soon to tell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Rock at Summerslam '98, though he was on his way without it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 What about Bryan losing in a flash at Mania to Sheamus? He'd been picking up steam for months but that slap in the face seemed to really bring people behind him starting the next night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidebottom Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Lots of these answers are leaving me scratching my head, could some of you guys explain why you think they were specifically elevated by the loss? Without calling anybody out, there are plenty above which have been victim to revisionist history by the WWE for what the moment meant, or are frankly no different from 90% of other losses out there. Anyway, Jerry Lynn comes to mind at Living Dangerously 1999. Heyman did a great job with Lynn that night. After a great 1998, Lynn goes up against company star RVD here. The two has been having excellent matches on the road which are on many comps but this was their first major showing. The Hardcore Heaven rematch match was highly regarded at the time, but IMO this one was better. The set up is: fans REALLY thought Lynn had a shot at winning DUE TO HIS ELEVATION THROUGH LOSS at Living Dangerously. Lynn pushed RVD to the limit, the time limit came and the ref wanted to reward Lynn the TV championship. Lynn demanded 5 more minutes and he was given them: then RVD picked up the win. Lynn came out of that looking like a champion and declared himself "The New fucking show". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Misterio Jr. @ GAB 96. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoe Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I thought Pillman in 90 losing to Flair really helped elevate him and even to Luger in 89. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 Hansen-Kobashi didn't elevate Kobashi up the cards. He was in the same spot for another year. One can debate when he got to the level he was at in July 1993: either May/June 1993 or June 1992. One could see differences in May/June 1993 from what he'd been in June 1992 that might be subtle 20 years later. And yeah... he lost in June 1992 and June 1993 just like he lost in July 1993. If we're trying to thread the needle on singles losses, the one to Hansen didn't mean more than or "make Kobashi' more the earlier losses to Jumbo. It's a great match. People loved it at the time. But it didn't change things a great deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I'd put Sasuke failing to run the Samurai-Liger-Pegasus gauntlet at the Super J Cup as high on the list. He did get two wins, including the big one. But in the end, he did job to New Japan. He became a Someone coming out of it, while he'd been just a minor leaguer before that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Guitar Posted June 5, 2015 Report Share Posted June 5, 2015 I thought Pillman in 90 losing to Flair really helped elevate him and even to Luger in 89. They definitely helped raise Pillman's profile, but they didn't follow through. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that, but they should have had Pillman step up to defend Sting after the injury at the Clash instead of Luger. Pillman has the match with Flair at Wrestlewar instead of on Saturday Night. Flair goes over strong. Pillman puts up at valiant effort and Luger doesn't get screwed with an ill advised face turn. Post Wrestlewar, Pillman goes after the Horsemen, beats Arn for the TV title( or not), then feuds with Windham ala 1991. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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