Loss Posted August 2, 2015 Report Share Posted August 2, 2015 For our podcast this week, we're going to be talking about WWE's revisionist version of history and stances on different wrestlers and events, and in particular the ones we disagree with, and want to get some feedback from you guys - what myth that WWE propagates do you disagree with the most, or in particular bothers you when they try to force it on the general public? Oh God. How much time do you have? Give me some time to come back to this and make the post this thread deserves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man in Blak Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 There's too much to cover, though I'm looking forward to Loss's post. You could dedicate an episode on the Monday Night War series and The Kliq Rules special/DVD that just came out and struggle to cover everything in under four hours. Everything that this company has done since the purchase of WCW has been to re-frame the history of professional wrestling in its own image, from the marketing and booking of its Superstars to the way that it playfully toys with the Universe . Is it really an accident that so much of their product, from John Cena to Daniel Bryan, is consumed (driven?) by fan resistance and revolt to their messaging? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LariatMMBOPPO Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 For me I would list the fact that WWE won't acknowledge that they put other promoters out of business in a very aggressive manner for the time. They act like it "just happened" but Vince was offering talent loads of money to get on the Rock-N-Wrestling train. There's nothing wrong with what he did but he always portrays WWF at that time WAY more sympathetic than it was. Love Vince whining about it when Bischoff/"Turner" started doing the same to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donsem43 Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 You could do a sequel were you try figure out which of Vince beliefs cost or prevented him from making the most money. Interpromotinal stuff alone, especially Flair in '91 and Goldberg, would be a full show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 1. HBK, GOAT 2. Iron Sheik, all time legend. While I was away I rewatched many of the Legends of Wrestling roundtable shows. If you recall the first 6 of these showcased "Superstars of the 80s". Let me remind you of the guys to whom they dedicated 30 mins or so each: Terry Funk Roddy Piper Hulk Hogan Bob Backlund Andre the Giant Jerry Lawler JYD Ric Flair Sgt. Slaughter It's very difficult to quibble with these selections. They all make sense. These were the biggest stars of the 80s or the most talented. It's a very fair representation. We might put cases forward for other people to be included ahead of these 9. I can see an argument for Dusty, for example. Piper and Slaughter may have some competition, but they are not at all controversial people to cover. Who is the 10th star they featured? That's right, it was Iron Sheik. Why is Sheiky Baby deserving of such lofty company? It doesn't end there. The Official WWE sanctioned Top 50 list that got Matysik so hot under the collar lists Iron Sheik at 31. One place ahead of Jimmy Snuka. Above Mick Foley, Kurt Angle, Jack Brisco, Sgt. Slaughter, Nick Bockwinkel, Dory Funk Jr. and Bob Backlund who is at 47. He was ushered into the WWE Hall of Fame fairly swiftly. Now, I'm wondering, does Sheiky have secret photos of Vince caught having man-sex with Pat Patterson? Vince re-hired Sheik on no less than 4 different occasions, despite his trouble with the law and drugs. He gave him a fairly inexplicable high profile role in 1991. Since the 2000s, Iron Sheik has been in every video game going, got his own action figure, and so on. WHY? I don't really get this at all. The WWE own wrestling history. They own all the footage. There are clear legends in wrestling history. So why do they seem so intent on spinning this myth that the Iron Sheik was this legend on par with the greats? It's quite bizarre. Ivan Koloff or even Superstar Graham do not enjoy this treatment. Iron Sheik's sole claim to fame in the "all-time" stakes is being the guy Hogan beat for the belt. That one moment is elevating him an awfully high way. In the official WWE sanctioned version of history, Iron Sheik is one of the wrestling gods. In reality he was essentially a career midcarder (or upper midcarder at best) who was in the right place at the right time to be a transitional champ for a month and from there became a JTTS within 3 years. Anyone got any ideas about possible explanations for this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Is there any truth to the story Sheik was offered money to shoot on Hogan? Considering how highly Vince views loyalty to the company, maybe he thinks it was true and kept him around for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 I've never believed it. He was 45 at the time and had really declined physically. I'm not calling Hogan a tough guy but I think Hogan could have manhandled him pretty easily if he got the idea that Sheik was trying to pull some shit on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khawk20 Posted August 3, 2015 Report Share Posted August 3, 2015 Depends on who you talk to or listen to. Sheik always says that happened, the Gagnes always said it didn't. Wouldn't surprise me if it did happen, but I often wonder if it was an offer thrown out in pure anger that Verne didn't really mean. Sheik hadn't even spent any time in the AWA since the late 70's and I get there is a loyalty factor there, but it isn't like Verne would have been reaching out to someone freshly stolen. EDIT: I also don't doubt that Sheik could have hurt Hogan if he was of the mind to, but really, in a pro wres match, anyone could do that if their opponent didn't suspect anything. Same as Hogan could have hurt Sheik badly had the situation been reversed and Sheik didn't suspect anything was amiss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteF3 Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 It's not just the WWF that tends to overstate Sheik's place in history .The Unreal Story of Professional Wrestling, the Steve Allen-narrated A&E piece that aired at the height of the late '90s boom, also gave an inordinate amount of face time to him. Sheik was a guy in the right place at the right time, who would have been a standard one-and-done challenger if the Hogan push had been delayed or cancelled. He did follow that up with a tremendous feud with Sgt. Slaughter, but that's about the sum total of his true historical impact in wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 The crying and belly aching over Bischoff signing WWF cast-off's when Vince built his empire on signing away other promoters' top stars. HHH being anywhere near the same tier (in both talent and level of stardom) as Austin, Hogan, Flair, Rock, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotJayTabb Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 On The Self-Destruction of the Ultimate Warrior DVD, they claim that Warrior turned around on the night of the show and demanded more money otherwise he wouldn't do the show, which Vince reluctantly agreed to before firing Warrior straight after the match. They even have other wrestlers like Hogan backing up this lie. The truth was that Warrior wrote a letter to Vince in July, saying he didn't believe his payoff for Wrestlemania VII was fair, and saying he'd rather stay at home until his demands were met. Still not great behaviour, but better than the mis-truths portrayed on the DVD. In the real world, Vince wrote Warrior a friendly letter agreeing to everything, before suspending him after Summerslam. I'm pretty sure he didn't even get fired, and was kept under contract without using him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Champagne Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 HHH being anywhere near the same tier (in both talent and level of stardom) as Austin, Hogan, Flair, Rock, etc. Indeed. Every time Triple H is featured as a top tier guy, I die a little inside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I think we discussed this a long time ago but I think you could argue he was less over than X-Pac and Road Dogg in DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTLL Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 That doesn't even require much of an argument, from what I recall without watching any of that stuff again, which I never will. Hell, Chyna was more over than Trips for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 Well, Chyna actually helped HHH get over. Like DX did. And Foley. And Stephy…. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I would have to watch to see if Chyna was more over or not. I think Billy Gunn might have been less over but I don't think there's any way to know for sure. If you watch a time line of all the WWF Title changes, his first two or three wins got absolute crickets. He was nothing until Foley absolutely made him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 4, 2015 Report Share Posted August 4, 2015 I think Billy Gunn might have been less over but I don't think there's any way to know for sure. I'm not sure Billy Gunn was actually ever over by himself. The only thing he did that ever got a reaction was say "suck it !". When he became "The One" and didn't have Road Dogg to do the intro routine anymore, he got about the same reaction as Rockabilly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliott Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Skimming through the thread I didn't see this mentioned: Shawn Michaels was/is a star on the same level of importance to WWE history as Hogan, Austin, Rock, Bruno, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 It's actually quite amazing that Shawn is held in any regard what so ever considering at least 75% of his career he was a completely unprofessional shithead. The only reason he never got thrown out on his ass and given the Warrior treatment was the fact the Monday Night War was going on and Vince was super paranoid to let anyone go. I was just reading an old WON from September 1997 how they had to edit most of a promo he did off a pre taped Raw because he was calling out the Undertaker (who wasn't at the building and was just shown on the Titan Tron in a pretape) to make him look like a coward to the live crowd. Hell, forget getting fired, how he avoided getting his ass beat by most of the locker room was a mystery to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 It's actually quite amazing that Shawn is held in any regard what so ever considering at least 75% of his career he was a completely unprofessional shithead. The only reason he never got thrown out on his ass and given the Warrior treatment was the fact the Monday Night War was going on and Vince was super paranoid to let anyone go. I was just reading an old WON from September 1997 how they had to edit most of a promo he did off a pre taped Raw because he was calling out the Undertaker (who wasn't at the building and was just shown on the Titan Tron in a pretape) to make him look like a coward to the live crowd. Hell, forget getting fired, how he avoided getting his ass beat by most of the locker room was a mystery to me. I was at that Raw! on the new Clique DVD they acted like DX was the hottest thing in the promotion in 97 and 98. In fact those words were directly said They were over but come on...Steve Austin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 as for HHH he was pretty damn over as a babyface in spring/summer 0f 98. Watch the ending of the ladder match at SS 98. The he got hurt and when they brought him back he was less over and then the heel turn to the corporation killed his heat for good until the fall of 99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 It's actually quite amazing that Shawn is held in any regard what so ever considering at least 75% of his career he was a completely unprofessional shithead. The only reason he never got thrown out on his ass and given the Warrior treatment was the fact the Monday Night War was going on and Vince was super paranoid to let anyone go. I was just reading an old WON from September 1997 how they had to edit most of a promo he did off a pre taped Raw because he was calling out the Undertaker (who wasn't at the building and was just shown on the Titan Tron in a pretape) to make him look like a coward to the live crowd. Hell, forget getting fired, how he avoided getting his ass beat by most of the locker room was a mystery to me.Rumor has it that DID happen. The Harris twins allegedly caught Shawn away from his bigger buddies, with only Waltman being there. Ron or Don, whichever, one of 'em beat the crap out of Shawn while the other one held X-pac down, with a prison-like warning: "You didn't see shit!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigBadMick Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 It's actually quite amazing that Shawn is held in any regard what so ever considering at least 75% of his career he was a completely unprofessional shithead. The only reason he never got thrown out on his ass and given the Warrior treatment was the fact the Monday Night War was going on and Vince was super paranoid to let anyone go. I was just reading an old WON from September 1997 how they had to edit most of a promo he did off a pre taped Raw because he was calling out the Undertaker (who wasn't at the building and was just shown on the Titan Tron in a pretape) to make him look like a coward to the live crowd. Hell, forget getting fired, how he avoided getting his ass beat by most of the locker room was a mystery to me.Rumor has it that DID happen. The Harris twins allegedly caught Shawn away from his bigger buddies, with only Waltman being there. Ron or Don, whichever, one of 'em beat the crap out of Shawn while the other one held X-pac down, with a prison-like warning: "You didn't see shit!" Yeah. That was Sep or Oct 1995, though. Morale must have been really crappy backstage in 97 with Shawn's antics going on..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LariatMMBOPPO Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 Rumor has it that DID happen. The Harris twins allegedly caught Shawn away from his bigger buddies, with only Waltman being there. Ron or Don, whichever, one of 'em beat the crap out of Shawn while the other one held X-pac down, with a prison-like warning: "You didn't see shit!" Here's Waltman's account: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOgB8Wgw1gw Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 7, 2015 Report Share Posted August 7, 2015 as for HHH he was pretty damn over as a babyface in spring/summer 0f 98. Watch the ending of the ladder match at SS 98. The he got hurt and when they brought him back he was less over and then the heel turn to the corporation killed his heat for good until the fall of 99 I think the Rock had a lot to do with how over he was in the summer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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