goodhelmet Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 OK, so WWE is declaring war on ROH. They supposedly won't hire thier talent. They are running shows counter to shows that ROH has had lined up for months (San Antonio for example). They killed off sales for the Field of Honor when they announced the Takeover show. Kris, Dylan and Musgrave tackled this topic on a podcast but I think this topic is bigger than just our podcast. http://placetobenation.com/good-will-wrestling-roh-vs-nxt/ Anyway, if ROH and NXT are coming to your town... which ticket are you buying? Which show would you rather see on Saturday... Takeover or Field of Honor? Who do you think has the better roster? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Honestly I would go with NXT right now because first of all, they will be talents that I would be seeing on TV someday as potential stars, the booking is more old fashioned and simple and there are just more guys I am personally interested in than the core RoH roster. Now if RoH was doing a show with the best NJ has to offer, that would be different but again- that is novelty whereas NXT is not (in terms of storylines). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migs Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I had the choice and I'm going to Field of Honor, but I'm not sure that's the choice I've made if ROH wasn't featuring Okada and Nakamura. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I would buy an NXT ticket. I've never been to RoH and I've had to good experiences with NXT. The only way RoH would get me into the building is by booking AJ Styles on the show and I doubt they would do that for Columbus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Almost entirely lineup based for me. NXT was close to sold out before they announced anything, and the card isn't one I felt I had to be there for. Planned on going to ROH because with the NJPW crew in town its a great looking show, but my friend backed out so its either go solo or drag the wife and issue a huge IOU. We'll see what the forecast is in a couple days and make it a game time decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 NXT is a better product as it builds up matches more and reigns in a lot of the indy bullshit that ROH lets run wild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Almost entirely lineup based for me. NXT was close to sold out before they announced anything, and the card isn't one I felt I had to be there for. Planned on going to ROH because with the NJPW crew in town its a great looking show, but my friend backed out so its either go solo or drag the wife and issue a huge IOU. We'll see what the forecast is in a couple days and make it a game time decision. Go alone. I hit events alone all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Cards NXTBalor vs Owens (Ladder Match) Liger vs Breeze Blake & Murphy vs Vaudeviliians Sasha vs Bayley Baron Corbin vs Samoa Joe ROH Briscoe Brothers vs Time Splitters Lethal & Nakamura vs redragon Okada vs Strong Killer Elite Squad vs War Machine Goto vs Elgin Adam Cole vs Christopher Daniels Young Bucks & Sydal & ACH vs Kingdom & RPG Vice Gauntlet Match for TV Title Shot: Moose, Kazarian, Dijak, Cedric, Page, Castle & Silas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I would choose NXT to see Sasha vs. Bayley. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
concrete1992 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I would buy an NXT ticket. I've never been to RoH and I've had to good experiences with NXT. The only way RoH would get me into the building is by booking AJ Styles on the show and I doubt they would do that for Columbus. Should we be talking about this a bit more or is it a non-issue to most? NXT came to Albany, about a two hour drive. I wasn't busy but I decided I would rather stay home than watch that. Keep in mind I have drove farther for shows headlined by Jim Duggan so it doesn't take a ton to get me out the door. I care so little about promos and build so that is probably a bigger hit to NXT. If I don't care about the match at the end of the line I don't care about seeing how we get there. Ring of Honor I think has better chances to have good stand alone shows. They have far more talents I want to see like Strong, Castle, Briscoes, Moose, ACH, Matt Sydal, and War Machine. They of course of the occasional Styles and Young Bucks which is a plus. NXT has...I have no idea who on that roster I'd be interested in watching. Sasha and Becky? And unless they are paired together that is a tough sell. Balor, Owens, Breeze, and Corbin aren't people I want to go see. They just don't draw me in. Admittedly Corbin is probably a lousy pick but Joe seems like someone who NXT doesn't want to focus on as a draw or it just comes across like that for someone who is not really paying attention to the product all too much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Almost entirely lineup based for me. NXT was close to sold out before they announced anything, and the card isn't one I felt I had to be there for. Planned on going to ROH because with the NJPW crew in town its a great looking show, but my friend backed out so its either go solo or drag the wife and issue a huge IOU. We'll see what the forecast is in a couple days and make it a game time decision. Go alone. I hit events alone all the time. Yep that is absolutely where we're leaning. But will wait to see how the weather holds up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stomperspc Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I think the ROH card blows away the NXT card in terms of variety and potential quality matches. When it comes to NXT in general, for me it is always a question of “would I have any interest in this match/card if it wasn’t happening in WWE?” More often than not the answer is “no”. That’s the case for most of the matches on this card. If a year and a half ago – before both signed with WWE – some US or European indie ran Steen/Devitt in a ladder match I think I would have been curious as to how that might looked but likely would not have tracked it down. My interest level in that match now is a little higher because I did like their Sumo Hall match. Nothing else on the card interests me much at all. I love Liger but I’ve seen him work his late career touring singles much quite a bit in person and on tape the past few years. I am not sure there is anything he is going to do with Tyler Breeze that he didn’t do with Adam Cole, Tommy End, Jay Lethal, Dalton Castle, KUSHIDA, Robbie Dynamite, ect. over the past two years in singles matches. To be fair, I would probably feel differently if I hadn’t already seen him live a handful of times. I love Joe but 2015 Joe needs a better opponent than Corbin to draw me in. The tag match does nothing for me and the NXT women haven’t hooked me the way they have others. The fact that they are taping television afterwards also wouldn’t appeal to me because that’s a long show. The ROH card has the Time Splitters/Briscoes first time match that has a good deal of potential, a fun high energy eight man, a fun looking heavyweight tag, and one of 2015’s best wrestlers wrestling the IWGP heavyweight champion (among other matches). Goto/Elgin does nothing for me (didn’t care for their G1 match) but the other matches are all interesting to me in one way or another. I am not a huge modern ROH fan and I can envision other scenarios where I would choose an NXT card over an ROH one, but with these cards the choice is easy. Of course, they are both second place to the Rey/Red match happening for Red’s promotion on Friday. That is the one NY area match this weekend that did cause me to give some thought about the making the trip up from Baltimore. NXT is a better product as it builds up matches more and reigns in a lot of the indy bullshit that ROH lets run wild. I mostly agree with the second, but not with the first. On ROH’s major shows the vast majority of matches have been built to on TV for weeks or sometimes months. House shows (VOD shows) and TV matches might be a little looser but the same could be NXT. In watching TV from both promotions, I actually think they operate very similar in how they build to matches. This particular ROH card does contain a lot of “random” matches, certainly in comparison to the NXT show, but then again we are comparing a big house show wedged in between PPV’s to a major quarterly event that is airing live. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I have only watched ROH TV for the last few months, but I think there build to matches has been pretty lackluster. Nothing comes close to the Bayley vs Sasha build. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goodear Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 As a total NXT mark, I got about 4 minutes in before Kris called the 6'8" Sawyer Fulton being barely six foot. He's massive but working as a job guy. I mean the NXT 'formula' is to have job guys cycle through and out before coming back with a new package to start the push. Baron Corbin and Jason Jordan both did the same pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I got hammered for this when I tried to make suggestions on Twitter, but I'll throw the question here -- how does ROH fight back? Just doing a better show won't cut it. How do they remain competitive? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Sasha Banks or The Young Bucks ? Choice easy made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I'd rather go to the Field of Honor show than Takeover, and stomperspc articulated a lot of my thoughts perfectly on this. As Will mentioned, the ROH and NXT are stopping by San Antonio next month as well. I'm currently making plans to attend both those ROH shows and didn't even considered going to the NXT shows. I like NXT but have had way more fun watching ROH TV, PPV's, and iPPV's this year, for the most part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I want to clarify my question. Keeping the relationship strong with New Japan and improving certain things about the booking are fine and may help them some, but I mean my question more in a tactical way. What's a smaller company to do when a larger one is determined to lock them out of buildings and sign away their talent? Would babyfacing themselves to the viewing audience as David fighting Goliath do any good? I think it's a bigger question than "How does ROH improve their product?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eduardo Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I want to clarify my question. Keeping the relationship strong with New Japan and improving certain things about the booking are fine and may help them some, but I mean my question more in a tactical way. What's a smaller company to do when a larger one is determined to lock them out of buildings and sign away their talent? Would babyfacing themselves to the viewing audience as David fighting Goliath do any good? I think it's a bigger question than "How does ROH improve their product?" Would promoting the fact that their roster is more diverse (in several ways, as in prominently promoting people of color in featured roles and showcasing performers working different styles) than NXT's have any positive effects? If they were to babyface themselves, they would have to be far different about it than say, ECW in the 1990's. Different world today. Maybe keep working at highlighting the differences between what they offer, and what NXT offers, but without being too obsessed about it or negative about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I think in the long run ROH can't really do much of anything until Sinclair shows any sign of considering them anything more than low cost programming for their stations. I'm not saying they should go full Bischoff and spend tons of money on stupid shit, but as many have pointed out Sinclair is a bigger company and should be able to step in and stop ROH from being locked out of buildings if they wanted to. It's been mentioned in several interviews with ROH employees that the frustration with Sinclair is probably the main issue right now. It was embarrassing how long it took to get their lighting situation sorted out, and the story of them going to management to ask for the budget to be increased even a little was something out of Charles Dickens tale. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 I want to clarify my question. Keeping the relationship strong with New Japan and improving certain things about the booking are fine and may help them some, but I mean my question more in a tactical way. What's a smaller company to do when a larger one is determined to lock them out of buildings and sign away their talent? Would babyfacing themselves to the viewing audience as David fighting Goliath do any good? I think it's a bigger question than "How does ROH improve their product?" I think they should have been doing some things years ago. Like investing in better production values. Side by side they don't look as good as NXT does. I think they also needed to book the two PPVs they've had better this year. The TV is great but the two big shows were very mediocre. They also need to fix their VOD prices. Streaming should never cost more than $10 and $35 for a six month old show is insanity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southofheavy Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 What the hell prompted this, anyway? ROH is coming to Dearborn, MI next month. I'm gonna check it out, as I haven't been to a show in ages. If NXT was running in Detroit the same night...I'd probably go with NXT. I'm just way more familiar with it. I haven't watched any ROH in a fortnight, aside from Briscoes promos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 What the hell prompted this, anyway? It seems WWE felt embarrassed that there was a Kevin Steen figure in ROH's upcoming line before they could market a Keven Owens one. It's not something a billion dollar company should be quite that upset about, but I get the impression it was an ego bruising that someone couldn't handle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southofheavy Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 Ouch. That's pretty fourth grade, right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted August 18, 2015 Report Share Posted August 18, 2015 What the hell prompted this, anyway? It seems WWE felt embarrassed that there was a Kevin Steen figure in ROH's upcoming line before they could market a Keven Owens one. It's not something a billion dollar company should be quite that upset about, but I get the impression it was an ego bruising that someone couldn't handle. My guess is that it's a HHH ego bruising. Vince never seemed to get upset about guys making a buck for themselves like a figure deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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