NXT talk

[C.S.]

Yeah the main event, from the beginning with Almas coming out with the mariachi band to the end with Gargano being attacked, was as great of a presention of professional wrestling I've ever seen in my entire life. The match might be the best WWE match I've ever seen, with drama and moments as good as any I've seen from Houston and Memphis wrestling during the 1970s and 1980s. Just master-level performances from both Gargano and Almas.

 

I usually recoil at gushing posts like this, but yeah, it was a DAMN great match! Everyone should really go out of their way to watch it, even if they watch nothing else from the show (which might not be a bad idea, because I found the rest of the card pretty bland and lacking - but that incredible main event MORE than made up for it) .

[Ricky Jackson]

Main event felt all time great, or at least best of the century so far great. I'm not a consistent star guy, but I'm throwing ***** on it. The overall story of Gargano's post DIY self journey, prior history between the two, nuclear crowd, great false finishes, and great drama add up to one of the classics of modern WWE produced wrestling.

 

Great show overall. I really enjoyed the tag and Black vs Cole was pretty good, but I really, really liked Moon vs Baszler. They finally made Moon a sympathetic babyface. Loved the finish. Baszler's great. Real face and heel heat in that match, and in the main too. Maybe there is hope in the future after all.

 

Also, really lazy not to create a thread for this guys.☺

[Karl]

It would be fair to say that I am not a huge fan of the current wrestling scene, but it would also be fair to say this match blew me away. A genuinely compelling championship match. I know it is mere hours since the bout took place, but right now I would say it can stand shoulder to shoulder with some of the greatest matches ever. It was pro wrestling at its best. Utterly exceptional.

[Johnny Sorrow]

 

Number one and the best.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

Main event felt all time great, or at least best of the century so far great. I'm not a consistent star guy, but I'm throwing ***** on it. The overall story of Gargano's post DIY self journey, prior history between the two, nuclear crowd, great false finishes, and great drama add up to one of the classics of modern WWE produced wrestling.

Great show overall. I really enjoyed the tag and Black vs Cole was pretty good, but I really, really liked Moon vs Baszler. They finally made Moon a sympathetic babyface. Loved the finish. Baszler's great. Real face and heel heat in that match, and in the main too. Maybe there is hope in the future after all.

Also, really lazy not to create a thread for this guys.☺

I liked the Women’s match, too, but almost entirely from the Baszler side of the equation. I just can’t get into Ember much as a character because there just isn’t much of one. I thought her selling was overboard during the match and then not overboard enough afterward considering she had been in a hold that really fucks up your elbow for like 3 minutes. Didn’t hate the match by any means but those aspects really kept me from loving it.

 

Anyhow, the main event put tears in my eyes so it’s all-time great from my perspective. I expected a spectacular match since I love both guys but it was just blowaway. I think I would have loved it even MORE if I wasn’t always looking for a Ciampa run-in any time the camera zoomed out even a little.

[El-P]

I guess I'm gonna be somewhat of the black sheep on this one. Yeah, I know.

AOP vs Fish & O'Reilly was a good opener. Nothing special. I don't care one bit about any element of the AOP presentation (don't like the look, the name, Ellering is useless), but they have improved. Fish & O'Reilly are fun and obviously the one carrying the bulk of the match, but AOP did work well as babyfaces here.

 

First look at Velveteen Dream. Great intro. Fun gimmick of the 30 sc knock out. For the rest, well, he's basically Johnny B. Bad in 1992. Some really fucking sloppy stuff here. Tons of improvement before he's anything in the ring, but he's got the rest (gimmick, character, presentation). Balls Mahoney looked the best I've seen in years.

 

Shayna vs Ember Moon, well, I've talked about it in this particular match thread. Best match as far as story went, as Shayna is terrific as a character, although I'm not too impressed with her submission work. It's fine, it's nothing special except the damn elbow spot which is awesome. Like Ember's work a lot. Good match but damn, Shayna the Submission Magician can't get a girl with a fucked up elbow to tap out ? Stayed way too long in the armbar before the cool finish.

 

Adam Cole vs Aleister Black. For a while, I thought this was the most deliberate WCW garbage match I've seen but it did pick up and I get that they were slowly building toward sick shit and an effective run-in. This ended up being my favourite match when all was said and done. Cole is quite the good asshole and I'm sold on Black as a worker.

And.... yeah. I know. This was way too fucking long especially to get to that result with that spot. Cien's entrance was great, Gargano is a great babyface, but honestly I got bored after 10 minutes. If you watch that in a void, there's no way, just watching the match, to get the dynamic of Cien = heel and Gargano = underdog. No way. They worked a zillion spots, never established any kind of dynamic until the last part where finally, Vegas started to interfere and they brought me back in. Now, it got interesting again, but I really was lost for a whole middle section. Super cool spot with Gargano's better half, but then it went too long again until that shitty finish with that shitty spot. Drapping DDT and that awful footsomp where the guy has to hold himself on the ropes, that's a bit much for the same guy. Anyway. Didn't feel like this was anything more than a "do a zillion spots" match, well done for what it was but devoid of good story (apart from the one that was hammered by the announcers but wasn't happening in the ring to me). So there. Maybe I was just tired (which I am), but it didn't click with me. Maybe it just went over my head. Maybe everyone is drinking the NXT Kool-Aid (yeah, gotta have an ECW reference in Philly). (EDIT : I was off about this one)

 

As a show, apart from me getting tired by the end, it was a super easy show to watch with the worst match being at least fun and every thing else between quite good and excellent (great maybe ?), much better than the Bobby Roode/Nakamura era Takeovers. War Machine, Ricochet and EC3 (how do people know about this guy anyway ? I thought no one watched nor cared about iMPACT ?) showing up under their own name is kinda funny when you think about Khassius Ohno...

 

Not sure I can make it to the Rumble tonight. I'm kinda down, so. Plus it obviously won't follow that show very well.

[Coffey]

Nothing in the world will ever be universal, including pro-wrestling. If everyone hates something, someone will speak up with their love & vice-versa. Especially in the internet era.

 

"Bret/Austin at Mania 13 sucked!" "Flair/Steamboat? Pfft. Doesn't hold up."

 

Look at Okada/Omega from last year.

 

Almas/Gargano was great pro-wrestling, regardless of the circumstances people had while watching the show. And just like Okada/Omega, the naysayers (which I was apart) will fall on deaf ears to everyone else enjoying it.

[El-P]

It's not even a matter of hating it. I can see why it's praised to hell, but it just didn't click with me, or only in parts (and I'm actually kinda sad it didn't). Maybe not following NXT hurt my perception too, but I don't follow NJ either and was way into Naito vs Okada. I may want to rewatch it while rested.

 

(Well I should rest now if I want to watch the Rumble during the night too, because it begins at 1pm here...)

[fakeplastictrees]

When the bell rings, Moon is solid and there's no questioning her skill and talent. However, the character work hasn't moved past cosplaying vampire novels. Everything Ember does from a character perspective is of the shallowness of a teenage deciding one day to go 'dark' because her crush doesn't even know she exists. It doesn't do anything for me and I would like to see more from her than blank stares and D Level scowls that would make Len Wiseman cringe.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

It's not even a matter of hating it. I can see why it's praised to hell, but it just didn't click with me, or only in parts (and I'm actually kinda sad it didn't). Maybe not following NXT hurt my perception too, but I don't follow NJ either and was way into Naito vs Okada. I may want to rewatch it while rested.

 

(Well I should rest now if I want to watch the Rumble during the night too, because it begins at 1pm here...)

I think watching the TV and following Gargano’s ascension this past six months definitely helps. I didn’t expect him to win just because Almas hasn’t gotten to have a real run but I was still all-in on watching Johnny try to pull it off.

[Dylan Waco]

Loved the show last night, even with minor critiques. I was so high on Almas v. Gargano live that I didn't even want to public state my initial reaction. Will hedge a bit until I rewatch it, but it's likely going to rate as one of my favorite matches of all time, I thought it was better than any match from anywhere on earth in 2017, and that's even with a finish that I thought ran counter to the two most logical story points.

[Childs]

That main event just floored me. Very good show to that point and then it went to the stratosphere. I cannot remember the last time I got that sucked up in a WWE match.

[Stiva]

Gargano/Almas is just incredible pro wrestling. Every move felt earned, every counter felt natural, it dipped, it rose, it told a fantastic story. Gargano sold like a master and Almas hit that illusive balance that made Flair's title defences so great. Letting everyone know that you're still the man while structuring a match that gives the babyface everything. Almas won but man, Gargano took him all the way. As much as that crowd would have went wild for Johnny winning, Almas needs that kind of win as the Ace of NXT and he has a built in feud with Ciampa. That match was just astonishing work and the pair deserve all the praise they're getting, Two amazing performances.

[Kadaveri]

showing up under their own name is kinda funny when you think about Khassius Ohno...

 

I'm sure I read somewhere that he could be 'Chris Hero' in WWE if he wanted but he chose Kassius Ohno.

[cowboy hats]

That main event just floored me. Very good show to that point and then it went to the stratosphere. I cannot remember the last time I got that sucked up in a WWE match.

This me. Don’t watch NXT, an ocassional Takeover viewer, watched this show just now with no hype and was blown away. The amount of times I screamed ‘ohhh’ by myself during the main event was at least five. Think I teared up when his wife jumped in and I thought we were going to the ending right there. Really wanted to see the crowd come unglued with a win. I don’t think I heard one ‘this is awesome’ chant during the match. Don’t know if NXT fans have evolved away from that or if they were just that much genuinely into Gargano.

[NintendoLogic]

I'll try to watch the whole show sometime this week, but I decided to check out the main event due to it receiving more or less universal praise. I have nothing really to add. There were some WWE storytelling tropes that would probably annoy me more on a rewatch, but on initial viewing, it was incredibly gripping pro wrestling. If it's not the MOTY so far, it's a close #2. Gargano has to be the best babyface in wrestling right now. Generating actual wrestling heat (as opposed to the "this is awesome"/"fight forever" variety) from NXT fans is a borderline miraculous accomplishment.

[C.S.]

I think watching the TV and following Gargano’s ascension this past six months definitely helps.

I watched none of the TV, but I have followed Gargano's ascension through PPVs, CWC, etc. It was still a damn great pro wrestling match and one of the best I've seen in a very long time (IMO, of course).

[Cap]

The first match was really quite good and the main was next level. Everything in the middle felt like it under-delivered a bit (esp Dream and Ohno). Black and Cole wound up being pretty good. They were able to turn it on at the end, but even that match just felt like it could have been more.

 

The story of the night is - of course Gargano vs Almas. They put on a damned show here. I am really looking forward to watching it again. This was just top level stuff.

[Kronos]

I haven't seen NXT since Mania last year, and I had no trouble following the gist of the Gargano storyline. Did I miss some nuance, since last time I saw these guys Johnny was in a white hot tag match and Almas was a nobody? Sure. But I was able to follow the emotions and the basic heel/face structure.

 

For once, WWE's constant spoonfeeding and repetition helped me. And even without it, I feel I could have sorted it out. It's nice to have classic good guys and bad guys -- that's the kind of theatre that got me into rasslin as an adult.

 

In that case, the kewl moovez are just icing.

[El-P]

Just rewatched Cien vs Gargano. Scratch what I said before (except for the second footstomp spot, which is bad no matter who does it, and the final does still seem a wee bit anticlimatic to me but then again, I don't like that spot either), I was totally off. Awesome match, all-time great WWE match, MOTYC and so on. Gargano is the greatest babyface since, well, Daniel Bryan, and he's clearly in the league with the Steamboats and the Mortons.

[Alucard]

First look at Velveteen Dream. Great intro. Fun gimmick of the 30 sc knock out. For the rest, well, he's basically Johnny B. Bad in 1992. Some really fucking sloppy stuff here. Tons of improvement before he's anything in the ring, but he's got the rest (gimmick, character, presentation). Balls Mahoney looked the best I've seen in years.

 

I'd recommend Velveteen vs Aleister Black from Takeover: War Games as his best performance and one of my favorites from last year.

[Viking Hall]

Authors of Pain vs Undisputed Era

 

Fun opener, wasn't sure how the little and large dynamic would work in this one but both teams did a great job of putting it together. Love Authors of Pain look and they work well together in the ring, Undisputed Era did some great veteran work and kept a good pace throughout and AOP were great as the unlikely faces in peril. Thought the ending was really well done and suited that match well. *** 1/2

 

The Velveteen Dream vs Kassius Ohno

 

Ohno frustrates me, he's someone I want to love, but something just doesn't click with me. I love big hard hitters, but his ring style and his look just doesn't gel for me. First time seeing Velveteen Dream, not sure about the name, sounds more like a nickname than a ring name but the gimmick looks interested, like a cross between Apollo Creed and Prince. These two didn't do nearly as well with the little and large dynamic as the first match, Dream looked far too small to be as dominant as he was and there was the odd sloppy moment, but all in all there's definitely potential there. Interesting to see where he ends up. **

 

Shayna Baszler vs Ember Moon

 

Shayna was another first time for me but immediately made me take notice. Definitely has that unteachable vibe of badass about her and the little intro video was cool. Seen Ember a couple of times, gimmick does nothing for me but I like her ring style. Match was good, really put over Shayna well and you get the feeling she'll only get better from here while Ember did the battling champion bit well too. As others have said the armbar spot was poorly done, nearly Bret vs Backlund levels of ridiculousness but the finish worked, should have just happened way before it did. Did leave me wondering where Shayna fits in now they have Rousey though. ***

 

Aleister Black vs Adam Cole

 

Big fan of both of these two so I was really up for this match, but slightly apprehensive when I saw it was a hardcore match. As it happens I really enjoyed it, Black is someone that I could just watch all day, does some of the best looking strikes out there while his flips and highflying moves always look crisp too. Took a little while to get going but once they found their flow it really came together and it was great to see some innovative hardcore spots which is a tricky thing to pull off these days. Both the table spot and the announce table spot had me up off of the sofa and by the end I thought I'd easily found my match of the night. ****

 

Johnny Gargano vs Andrade Cien Almas

 

Didn't know much about Almas going into this but had seen quite a bit of Gargano's work and knew he was a solid hand, still didn't expect what I was about to watch though. I'm going to say it, this is an evolution point for pro-wrestling. Modern day spectacular moves combined with old school selling and psychology. The false finishes had me tricked each time, the big spots were performed flawlessly with each one making sense rather than just looking cool and by the end I was fully invested. The twist at the end sold it nicely too. This is what pro-wrestling is about. *****

[KawadaSmile]

How fucking awesome would it be to get a War Machine vs Heavy Machinery feud?

[Robert S]

When the bell rings, Moon is solid and there's no questioning her skill and talent. However, the character work hasn't moved past cosplaying vampire novels. Everything Ember does from a character perspective is of the shallowness of a teenage deciding one day to go 'dark' because her crush doesn't even know she exists. It doesn't do anything for me and I would like to see more from her than blank stares and D Level scowls that would make Len Wiseman cringe.

Is there any character work by her at all? The only thing to her character I have seen so far (mind you, I don't watch the weekly show, at least not in the last half year) are the contacts and the video on the screen during her entrance. I don't even know what her character is supposed to be. Vampire? Werewolf?

 

There were a bunch of really dangerous looking spots on the show. For example the fallaway slam from one of the AOP guys with O'Reilly (or was it Fish?) on his back looked like the perfect way for a serious neck injury or concusion. O'Reilly (or Fish) was bumping with a dangerous angle without any control of the fall or having his hands free. The other spot that looked ridiculous dangerous was Adam Cole bumping (being thrown) on the top of the chairs. Even after watching the replay I have no idea how Adam Cole's spine took that. He landed on top of the chair seats with almost his full body weight. I think the idea was to roll forwards during the bump but he barely managed to do that.

[Robert S]

How fucking awesome would it be to get a War Machine vs Heavy Machinery feud?

Are these mirror matches ever any good (or at least memorable)? I suppose Demolition vs. Powers of Pain (around Survivor Series 88), Road Warriors vs. Demolition (after Summerslam 90) and Road Warriors vs. Powers of Pain all happened, but I don't remember anyone talking about that.