goc Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 I'd put Taker's peak between 2007-2008. But his career is a weird case because I'm not sure anyone else has so many peaks and valleys. He's really good in 96/97 and then not so good until 2002 when has the awesome matches with Lesnar. American Bad Ass Taker was good as a heel, not so much as a babyface and the return to the Deadman didn't really lead to anything good until 2007 when he suddenly had an awesome feud with Batista that no one saw coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 When was he one of the best workers in the world would you say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 I have no idea because I wasn't watching Japanese wrestling in 2007 and would not go back to watch it now. He was definitely one of the best guys in WWE in 2007. Â I'm not making a case for Undertaker though. Just pointing out how you get very upset when people bring up Flair's bad stuff like it somehow should not count while trying to handwave away anything good Taker did only to focus on the negative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exposer Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exposer Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exposer Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 #Victory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exposer Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 If we want to be petty & selective. Let's be petty & selective. Â I'd say Taker's peak is 02-10 by the way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 My point was to emphasise the sheer volume of shockingly shit or forgettable stuff he was involved with at every stage and in every era of his lengthy run.I waive post-peak stuff as being periferal at best to cases. Taker didn't have a peak, so it is all fair game. I am angered by the charge of hypocrisy, genuinely angered, because I've been ridiculously consistent in applying criteria. Â Anyway, if "Being the best guy in WWE for a while in 2007" and a handful of good matches on prominent PPVs is enough to make someone a top 100 worker of all time, so be it. The voters have spoken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exposer Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 Well, I said I thought his peak was 02-10. So for me it's more than "a few good matches in 2007." For what it's worth, I think the Flair-Dusty matches aren't any good during Flair's peak. It's not the best comparison for "shit" during a peak because I don't like the stupid Dudley's stuff in 04 either but it's more to show Flair has stuff I don't like much at all in his peak too. Also, Taker finished in my 80s. I have Flair in my top 15. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 The amount of shit Taker has gotten in this thread amuses me. I didn't vote for him and didn't consider him THAT strongly, but he doesn't even rate as a "laughable" pick by any metric I would take seriously. Â I also don't think it's wrong to point out the inconsistency of cherry picking Taker's low points, when arguing that they don't matter for Flair or anyone else for that matter. Even with the debate about whether or not he has a real peak, it just feels like a "different rules, for different people" thing and triggers my "this is an injustice!" gene. I'd probably be more sympathetic to Parv's point if I thought Taker was consistently terrible, or if I thought Flair's run as an average or worse wrestler was really short, but I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted April 18, 2016 Report Share Posted April 18, 2016 I was relentlessly fair to Taker, he finished just outside my #100 and had the same score as Magnum TA and The Iron Sheik. Magnum got the spot due to tiebreaker rules:  Undertaker  Basic (offense, selling, psychology) 1/3 2/3 1/3 = 4 Intangibles 9 Great matches 5 Length of Peak [never one of best in world] = 0  +1 ability to work heel +1 ability to work tags +1 ability to work gimmick matches   Ability to work different styles / roles = 3  1. Hulk Hogan, 2. Shawn Michaels, 3. Mankind, 4. Jeff Hardy, 5. Kurt Angle / Rock, 6. Brock, 7. Randy Orton, 8. Batista, 9. Edge, 10. Big Show, 11. HHH, 12. CM Punk, 13. Vince, 14. Kane, 15. Austin, 16. Diesel, 17. Bret Hart   Variety = 17 opponents = 7  28  --------  I was really just having a bit of fun in this thread, apologies if I offended or hurt the feelings of any Undertaker fans. I did thank him for the memories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I'm not offended. Â But I super can't wait to talk about Undertaker on the show now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I'm going to use this as a secret outlet to talk about the Berzerker in 1992. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 If anything comes out of GWE at all, I really hope it's that when this is over, we can table all the spinoff battles of the Flair-Bret thread that are still going. And going. And going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 The next battleground is me v. AJPW consensus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Sleeze Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I love that Flair/Foley promo from TNA. The best thing Foley did in that promotion by far, not even close. Flair/Lethal promo exchange would be number one for Flair in TNA. Flair gets to kiss Becky, I am jealous. Great heel tactic and Becky got her receipt. Flair eating the Rock's offense only to have Rock mock the strut in the most awesome possible fashion is winning. So yep, Ric Flair is still The Man! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 The next battleground is me v. AJPW consensus  We already did that.  We decided that this guy was really great:  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOTNW Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Sorry Matt but I have to repeat you accomplished absolutely nothing. Taue's been a highly pimped wrestler for decades. A breakthrough would be if someone ranked him #1 or ranked him top ten without ranking any other All Japan guys or something like that. What you'll get in most lists is Taue ranking anywhere from top ten to top half behind at least one other 90s All Japan guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I have a feeling this is going to be about Akiyama anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Akiyama was pimped as great in 96. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Then it'll probably be Dylan arguing that Jimmy Rave and Kyle Matthews are the best AJPW workers of all time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 I don't half mind my "Sheamus as Misawa" theory. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 The next battleground is me v. AJPW consensus  I talked to your brothers. They'll be on my side and team AJPW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted April 19, 2016 Report Share Posted April 19, 2016 Is the battle to reorder AJPW consensus or to destroy the consensus that AJPW was the best wrestling ever? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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