What are your favorite "very good" (***1/2 - ****) matches?

[Loss]

What are your favorite matches that you think are safely very good but fall short of great, either barely or by a big margin? I do think sometimes we focus so much on the super super high end that a lot of very good matches get forgotten that shouldn't. What matches stand out to you the most as being enjoyable that aren't going to be anyone's MOTY but still are really good and worth seeing.

[Loss]

I started this thread because of my admiration for the Kevin Owens-Roman Reigns match on Raw last night. I wouldn't call it an all-time classic or anything like that, but it was definitely a very good match that impressed me and that I'll remember for a long time.

[InYourCase]

This will annoy some people, but anything even as high as ****1/4 can't be considered a MOTYC for me.

 

CIMA vs. Akira Tozawa from the 5/8 Dragon Gate show in Osaka is one of my favorite matches this year and seeing as how it has been such a loaded year, there's no way it's going to make it into my Top 10. The two have never had good matches together. Tozawa wrestled CIMA twice for the Dream Gate, once in 2012, and then again a year later, and they both fell victim to CIMA's one fatal flow of slowing the match down too much before having a killer last third. This match went 16 minutes, with the last 5 or so being a thing of beauty. I highly recommend it to everyone

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4ct7mj_akira-tozawa-vs-cima-5-8-16_sport

(post-match promo is why the video is so long)

 

Now that I'm typing this, another one came to mind - Big R Shimizu vs. Naruki Doi from the 5/22 Dragon Gate show. Shimizu is an under the radar candidate for being one of the 10 best wrestlers this year and he perfectly played to Doi's strengths. Hardway blood and a SWEET~ finish.

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4h8xv6_big-r-shimizu-vs-naruki-doi-5-22-16_sport

[GOTNW]

At first I thought I didn't have a good answer for this since I generally don't find matches I give a lower rating as memorable as those I give higher ratings(shocking I know). Choshu/Hashimoto from the 1991(?) G1 has two control segments and lasts eight minutes but the simolicity of it offers enough for me to call it a relatively perfect match.

 

Then I thought about stuff like writing a giant review for Choshu-Ashura Hara that I didn't even give **** despite being hugely impressed with it and how much fun I have watching Masao Inoue and Yano matches, and the whole issue of rating very short and/or squash matches and my answer probablys lays somewhere in there. Choshu-Ashura Hara really does rule.

[Loss]

I get a ****1/4 match not being a MOTYC, but I also think that's pretty safely a great match, at least by the standards I'd apply. I was hoping to capture more talk about good matches that you feel strongly about even if you'd never argue them as MOTYCs.

[Loss]

At first I thought I didn't have a good answer for this since I generally don't find matches I give a lower rating as memorable as those I give higher ratings(shocking I know).

 

I think this is because you are far more unencumbered by the idea of being "fair" (whatever that means) than I am.

[JerryvonKramer]

Randy Savage vs. Ted DiBiase, 6/25/88 MSG

[elliott]

Ignoring stuff like "here are 500 Rey Jr matches" these are some of the ones that popped into my head and they're basically all short-ish matches.

 

Satanico vs Octagon from I think 1991. I can't remember the date off the top of my head. But this is basically Satanico getting a good match out of someone who may as well be asleep. Octagon does absolutely nothing other than exist and breath but Satanico is determined to drag it to a compelling brawl.

 

Brian Pillman vs Barry Windham Taped First Match SuperBrawl 1 - a match I'm sure everyone has seen. 6 minutes of wild back and forth brawling leading to both guys blading. Kind of hard to imagine how this could have been better.

 

The Kiyoshi Tamura vs Kazushi Sakuraba 1996 Trilogy - These fall just below "great" for me because they don't feel as fully formed as a lot of other short matches I'd still consider great. But it is quite the glimpse of what could have been. Sakuraba should have gone to RINGS. ARGH!

 

Yuki Ishikawa vs Kazunari Murakami 11/26/00 - A totally insane brawl by shoot style standards. Murakami is the stiffest motherfucker ever just blasting away at Ishikawa. This even spills outside into the crowd as these two square off for face punching. Someone needs to get this back online asap.

 

Takeshi Ono vs Daisuke Ikeda 9/26/10 - Similar to Ishikawa/Murakami by shorter without the awesome visual of the in crowd square off. This is fucking awesome though with Ono just blasting away at Ikeda. Ono & Murakami have to be related somehow.

 

Big Show vs Mark Henry Money in the Bank 2011 - These two have had better matches with other people and with each other actually, but I love this. Big man sprint slugfest with WWE giving us an instant replay of a shoulderblock because of the massiveness.

 

I'm not sure what to do with something like Lawler vs Bundy or Jim Cornette vs Cowabunga because they probably fall into this category, but they're also in the "million billion stars" bucket.

 

I'm probably the only person in the world who thinks its a legit great show from top to bottom, but I think every match on Survivor Series 87 falls into the ***1/2-**** range. The opener I especially find extremely enjoyable. Good work and HTM getting his butt kicked.

 

Edit:

Wanted to add the Shamrock vs Owen Hart match from the Hart Family Basement. I don't even remember what show its on but it has stuck out in my mind for 18 years or however long its been since it first aired as being super super fun with Owen using the surroundings he grew up in to his favor (Hurricanrana using the ceiling specifically sticks out). I need to rewatch that.

[Laz]

Roderick Strong vs. TJ Perkins, PWG Threemendous III

DDP vs. Raven, WCW Slamboree 1998

DDP vs. Goldberg, WCW Halloween Havoc 1998

Saturn vs. Raven, WCW Fall Brawl 1998

 

...you know, just grab any combination of DDP, Saturn, and Raven from 1998.

[soup23]

The DDP stuff form 1998 is a great call. I enjoyed almost all of it and yet it fell just below the great version, ditto the Savage vs. DDP feud in ring from 1997 including excluding the Havoc match.

[ShittyLittleBoots]

Recent ones:

Roderick Strong vs. Matt Riddle (EVOLVE 64)
AJ Styles vs. Roman Reigns (Payback)
Kalisto vs. Alberto Del Rio (Fastlane Kickoff)

[InYourCase]

Roderick Strong vs. TJ Perkins, PWG Threemendous III

 

This is the quintessential answer.

 

 

/thread

[GOTNW]

How is Murakami/Ishikawa not a GREAT SO GREAT legit great match. Eight stars.

[elliott]

How is Murakami/Ishikawa not a GREAT SO GREAT legit great match. Eight stars.

 

Ok you convinced me. I was wavering on that one more than another other match.

 

I also considered the Murakami/Ogawa vs Hash/Iizuka tag from 1/4/00 but I was like "Nah, thats a no-brainer MOTYC."

[Cap]

It is an intersting question. I actually think I could make an argument for a lot of recent-ish WWE and NXT stuff. Really good has been sort of right in their wheelhouse when it comes to the big matches. A few of these came to mind right off, a few I looked back at my ratings and thought qualified.

 

Ric Flair vs Jerry Lawler (2/14/1982) - Such a fun little match/segment, never meant to be great, but so so good.

Stan Hansen vs Nick Bockwinkel (4/20/1986) - I really just liked this match a lot, but it is sort of in that top tier of the 4 stars group for me

Necro Butcher vs Joe (6/11/2005) - I am not as high on this as some people, but it is certainly memorable and a "very good" match that I could go back to

Negro Casas vs Mistico (9/18/2009) - Predictably fun and one of the first matches where I really started to get Casas when I was doing a lucha dive.

Tommy End vs Mike Bailey (8/30/2015) - I am probably high on this one, but this was actually probably my favorite match of bola that year, just a great showcase that really stuck with me.

Brian Kendrick vs Raul Mendoza (6/23/2016) and Tony Nese (7/14/2016) - I can't express how much I love Kendrick in this tourny. These two were VERY good and his last match was "great" to me.

[joeg]

I think my simple answer would be KENTA vs SUWA from 06 for the GHC Jr Title. For a mid card match, for a secondary title, with less than 1 month's build, that match had a shit load of heat. SUWA did all sorts of old school heel shit in that match. Makes me wonder what they could have achieved with a real feud, with a long build, for a real title, if they were heavyweights.

 

The two Hayato Jr Fujita vs Kanemoto matches.

[Jimmy Redman]

Oh God...so many matches. Sooooo many matches. If I started listing the good-very good WWE TV matches of the last decade or so I'd get to 500 before I paused for breath. But some favourites off the top of my head:

 

- Drew Mac vs Chris Masters (Smackdown 11/2/11) - the 90 second match

 

- Show/Rey/Kofi vs Miz/Sheamus/Zeke (Smackdown Oct 2010) - this I love mainly for the build, this was during Bragging Rights build and they had this old school setup where Miz picked the biggest guys on his team to tag with, so Show responded by picking the quickest flyers for his, and they had this match where the big heels dominated until the small faces came back and won and it was all just such great pro wrestling. If you watch the match cold it's probably any other six man, but as a package it rocks.

 

- Natalya vs Alicia Fox (Superstars 7/7/11) - or really any time they wrestle, but this is the best with all the hair pulling and shit talking.

 

- AJ Lee vs Naomi (NXT 23/11/10) - a fun spotfest outta nowhere

 

- Jack Swagger vs MVP (Smackdown 4/6/10) - a surprisingly stiff and well worked match

 

- Hunter vs Taker vs Kozlov vs Show (Smackdown 20/2/09) - a ridiculously fun hoss battle

 

- Shelton vs Taker (Smackdown Jan 2009) - you'd never expect this match up to work as well as it does

 

- Rey vs RVD (WWE vs ECW Head 2 Head 2006) - this was a short match with no finish to lead into ONS, but what they did before that was super, and I think this may have been their only singles match

 

Stop me, I could go on and on for hours.

[WingedEagle]

Love this topic and any others like it that have the potential for ID'ing a ton of matches I haven't seen. Onto what fits where:

 

Shinsuke Nakamura vs. Bad Luck Fale (6/21/2014)

AJ Styles vs. Lance Archer (2014 G1)

 

- A pair of matches with ace-level talent working against bigger man. Neither approach MOTYC territory but step out of the traditional comfort zones you'd see Nak or AJ work and for that and their execution are good fun and variety.

 

The Club vs. Reigns & Usos -- all of their 6 man tags from TV build around the Reign/Styles feud at Payback and Extreme Rules. Just about perfect for what they set out to accomplish.

 

AJ Styles vs. Amazing Red (TNA 2002) -- nice heel showing from a young Styles where's just a cocky prick and bullying the smaller man for a change.

 

AJ Styles vs. Sean Waltman (TNA No Surrender 2005) -- Waltman was long since forgotten in my eyes by this time, but this was no AJ carry job. Both more than held their own and kept a great pace.

 

Rhyno vs. Abyss vs. Sabu vs. Jeff Hardy (Monster's Ball, Bound for Glory 2005) -- shockingly great spotfest where everything clicks and there's little wasted time moving from murder to death to kill. One of the best of its kind.

 

Samoa Joe vs. Rhyno vs. Monty Brown (Hard Justice 2006) -- Not at the level of the above, but yet another really fun, spotty brawl. Rhyno brings great intensity while Joe holds it together.

 

Rockers vs. Orient Express (Royal Rumble 1991) -- Some are in the great match camp on this one, and I might be there if I watched it in '91. But I didn't. Very good and stands out for its time though.

 

Slaughter vs. Warrior (Rumble 91) -- Underrated Slaughter performance with tremendous bumping, great booking and a memorable finish. Curious why this is never mentioned with Rude & Savage matches among Warrior's best.

 

DDP -- mentioned above, but his feud with Savage and the Raven/Benoit/Saturn/Goldberg/Sting matches from this period are the epitome of this list.

 

Could go on and on. Hope I do at some point. But now time to watch a little.

[Superstar Sleeze]

I think my simple answer would be KENTA vs SUWA from 06 for the GHC Jr Title. For a mid card match, for a secondary title, with less than 1 month's build, that match had a shit load of heat. SUWA did all sorts of old school heel shit in that match. Makes me wonder what they could have achieved with a real feud, with a long build, for a real title, if they were heavyweights.

 

The two Hayato Jr Fujita vs Kanemoto matches.

These are all 4.5 star matches for me. Reigns vs AJ from Payback is my choice for best match since 2004. I feel very out of touch.

 

I know I have some really great answers for this but I'm tired.

[Karl]

The 3 to 4 star match is the back bone of pro wrestling. I can only imagine how many great matches within this range from 1992 WCW there were for example.

 

However, the first match which comes to moind when thinking of this type of match is the Bret Hart v Ted DiBiase match from Prime Time Wrestling. No classic, but love it none the less.

[JerryvonKramer]

I feel like a lot of the better WWF matches from the golden period slot in here.

 

Ted / Savage

Ted / Bret 89

Ted / Dustin

Ted / Shawn

Ted / Hogan

Steiners / Money Inc

Jake / Savage

Flair / Savage

Flair / Perfect

Bret / Perfect

Tito / Perfect

Brainbusters / Hart Foundation

Tito / Valentine (Nov 88)

Valentine / Garvin

Hogan / Slaughter

Hogan / Earthquake

Hogan / Schultz

Hogan / Race

Hogan / Orndorff

Hogan / Funk

Hogan-JYD / Funks

Steamboat / Orton Jr

[TonyPulis'Cap]

This is an excellent topic. There are so many matches that I think are really good and super enjoyable without hitting on, or ever really aspiring to hit on, ‘greatness’.

 

Like many others have said, this is a topic where you could sit and list hundreds of matches, but immediate thoughts would be some WWE Women’s matches pre the whole Divas Revolution. In particular, Trish vs Lita for the title which main evented RAW and where Lita almost breaks her neck on a dive, the Trish/Mickie mania match with it’s long backstory, and then there’s an AJ Lee/Kaitlyn match from a random 2013 PPV that’s really hard hitting and intense given it’s only sub 10 mins.

 

Doug Williams is a real favourite of mine, and his matches really capture the good but not always great vibe as I think they can sometimes be a little cold when looking at what you need to get next level. But I have so many of his matches ranked around *** ½ stars and he has some real hidden gems out there. One’s to seek out are a 1PW match with Nigel McGuinness, ROH Pure Title defences against Alex Shelley and Austin Aries in 2004, TNA matches with AJ Styles and Brian Kendrick and then right back to his FWA days in the early 2000s, particularly a title match he has with Daniel Bryan, who is wrestling under a mask which makes it a bit of a collectors item.

 

Would very much agree with whoever highlighted the WCW midcard of 1998 including various combinations of Benoit, Saturn, Raven and DDP. Perry Saturn in particular is a real underrated MVP of WCW on PPV in 98, and for this topic would definitely highlight him versus Raven at Fall Brawl 98.

 

Some other random ones in no particular order or context:

 

Goldberg vs. Scott Steiner (09/17/2000) – even with Russoference this is a great power match where you feel genuine animosity between the two

 

Alex Shelley vs. Chris Sabin (01/11/2009) – finals of a tournament for the vacant X Division Title and where they really play well on the tag team partners/best friends that know each others moves and actions

 

London and Kendrick vs. The Pitbulls (07/23/2006) – popped into my mind after listening to the PTB Podcast recently, but a great tag team match where the Pitbulls work as a really old school veteran team against two high flyers. It’s sort of a little bit of a poor man’s version of the Revival match from the last NXT Takeover

 

Brock Lesnar vs. Big Show (05/18/2003) – the lone bright spot on a horrific PPV, these guys always had great chemistry and this stretcher match has some really innovative spots and is great fun

 

Young Bucks vs. Teddy Hart & Jack Evans (03/20/2010) – this is from JAPW and while very much a spot fest at times – look who’s in the match of course – Hart and Evans charisma makes this is a good watch, and comes at a time when the Bucks were more of a Hardy Boyz tribute act (in a good way) than the somewhat more obnoxious version we have now

[NotJayTabb]

I'm sure I'm going to end up thinking of loads of answers, but off the top of my head:

 

Tom Zenk vs Brian Pillman (Wrestlewar 92)

Prefer this to Pillman's match with Liger at Superbrawl due to the storyline aspect. The fact that both knew each other so well due to tagging, and the idea that Zenk was stronger but Pillman was quicker, gave it a bit more depth.

 

Kidman vs Mikey Whipwreck (Uncensored 99)

Fun PPV opener, and I loved the dynamic of Whipwreck being this big bully cruiser who was wrecking Kidman with top rope back suplexes and wheelbarrowing him face first into the safety rails. I wish that dick bully Whipwreck beasting the cruiser division had been a thing, but he was back jobbing to Scotty Riggs by the next PPV

 

I've also been watching old episodes of Main Event for my blog, and there's been a few gems crop up. The best of which are:

 

Mark Henry vs Dean Ambrose (11/3/14)

Henry looks like an utter badass as he stares down all 3 Shield members at the start. Heel Ambrose was so much better than what we get now, more vicious. He hits this great diving punch to the back of Henry's knee and does these great little touches he doesn't bother with nowadays.

 

The Wyatt Family vs Sin Cara & Los Matadores (11/2/2014)

This was shortly before the Wyatts/Shield match at Elimination Chamber, and really is a reminder of why everyone was so excited about the Wyatts. They're awesome beasts here, a total contrast to their high-flying opponents, and Bray in particular is so explosive with his offence. The face team are great at timing their comebacks, and look really great in their shine spots. Los Matadores were terrific on Main Event in this time period (there's a Rybaxel match from the same month that's also good), glad they're getting a small push at the moment.

[JKWebb]

Ric Flair vs. Koko Ware - 11/18/1985 - It's been about a year since I last saw this, so it might actually be rated higher than I'm giving it credit for here. But, it seems like a match that is really great, that usually isn't discussed as an all-timer.

 

The uncensored 1997 main event is not that great of match, but it's really fun (especially the finish with Sting) - the memory I have of all my friends going nuts after he dropped from the rafters has made this a match that I will go back to. Luger was so over in this match.

 

Jerry Lawler vs. Nick Bockwinkel - $500 per punch - 01/01/1984

 

Randy Savage vs. Austin Idol - 05/14/1984

 

I love Savage vs. Dibiase from June of '88 MSG as well, but I would probably have it higher than ****, but not much or right at it... It is definitely a favorite - similar to the Koko Ware match, I think it could go over ****.

 

Hulk Hogan vs. Curt Hennig - XWF - 11/14/01

 

I know there are some Sting, Savage, and Piper matches I'm not thinking of... and plenty others... I'll have to think more about it...

 

-Hogan/Earthquake - Loved Hogan/Slaughter too... but, I think I'd rate it above 4.. I'd have to rewatch it -is a personal fav

-Flair/Savage (WCW) - I'd go over four for Mania 8

-Raven/Goldberg - US Title/Nitro - love the previously mentioned DDP/Raven stuff too - Savage/Raven as well, but I'd go over 4 for the Spring Stampede match...

 

... that's off the top... maybe more to come...

[Jimmy James]

Wonder if Hart/Piper from Mania 8's a little too good for this topic. Great moment for Bret, and one of my favorite finishes of all time (now that's a topic for a thread...)