Speculation on the WrestleMania 33 card

[gordi]

Agreed. Looking at that card, I can imagine that a lot of those matches will involve (as you say) self-conciously striving to create those big moments instead of just working a good solid match. And that is just not my thing. I like a three star match that knows it's a three star match and just tries to be the best three star match it can be. I can't bear a whole series of three-star matches all striving desperately to be immortal six-star classics.

[Matt D]

 

That injury angle was amazing.

 

Yeah amazing. And not only that, but the Henka of Doom on Kotoshigiku ! HEEL HEAT !! Is Riki Choshu circa 93 booking sumo now ? (I've been watching too much pro-wrestling)

 

The issue with Mania is that it reached the point of being a self-conscious epic event as a whole. From a bunch of Mania Moments ™ by the mid-00's (which was already annoying as fuck) to ManiaMoment ™.

 

 

The fact that they can't build a compelling card with drive and purpose doesn't help matters.

[stro]

The only way to watch WWE is for the lulz and good matches. If you're watching any of it to be good wrestling shows, you're fucking up. It's also best to be a bit lit (with whatever it is you ingest to get there), paying 70% attention to any given show, and definitely not watching every week.

 

Basically watch it like you would WCW 2000 and have a giggle before going to bed.

[fakeplastictrees]

WrestleMania has become a show that a lot of internet fans are not looking forward to, but will watch anyway. WWE doesn't know how to be subtle, natural, let things breath, etc. and because of that--Mania brings out the worse aspects of WWE.

 

-Mania moments use to be for the fans to discuss--now its part of WWE speak in its self-aware environment.

 

-Epics were something people realized at the tail-end or dead end of a match, but now its something that WWE hammers home in the lead up to the match, during the match, and after the match (whether its deserved or not).

 

-The most mundane aspects of a card being hyped up as some historical and monumental moment.

 

-WrestleMania is good right? You know what will make it better? IF IT WERE LONGER and included EVERYONE on the roster regardless of whether that person is over or not.

 

 

This can all seriously be fixed by WWE cutting down on being too cute, only having 8 matches total (this includes the pre-show match), and only including the people that can work and are over.

[gordi]

Matt and trees: Completely agree with what you have to say.

stro: understand and basically agree with what you have to say.

 

How weird is is that on a board of crazy wrestling fans, not one person so far has posted that they are excited about WM33? I imagine some people here must be planning on going live. Maybe they are excited?

 

Or... I dunno... maybe even the people going live are more excited about ROH, Janela, Evolve, Chikara, and Kaiju Big Battel?

[Jimmy Redman]

I will always like the idea of Mania but you're right, I am super not excited about Mania, and the pre-show starts at 7am Monday for me so apathy and an early start is not a good combo. At this point I'm contemplating getting stoned at the crack of dawn in front of my folks just to make it more interesting to sit through.

 

Ironically, the less I care about Mania as a show the more interested I get in possibly going to see Mania live. I guess because the less I'm worried about the card the more I can just treat it as a holiday and see America, experience Wrestlemania Weekend with all the shows and be in a big live crowd. One of my mates is going to Mania and I'm super jel, because I'm sure experiencing it live will be exponentially more fun than sitting through it at home.

[Matt D]

I'll probably come in around 9 pm once I get the four year old to sleep, rewind back to the battle royal, watch that and then jump back to where you guys are to join the support group.

 

I'll say this though: I am very much looking forward to the HOF this year though.

[Matt D]

I'm double posting but I want the next Elliott and Stacey Journey podcast to a review of the 45 minute (I'm not making that up) video of Steph and Trips going through Axxess. I'm almost 100% sure it's the best part of Mania this year.

 

https://www.facebook.com/pg/StephMcMahonWWE/videos/

[Loss]

Sunday night during the show, I'm going to dinner with an old friend who's in town. Any wrestling I watch this weekend will likely be for PWO2K. I'm interested in knowing what happens, but I don't feel the need to watch it all unfold. Not really hostile to current WWE so much as I just have other wrestling I'd rather watch given the choice.

[stro]

That's another issue not really talked about when it comes to WM. There is SO MUCH wrestling content available at any time that it's hard to get too excited for any given show. When WWE alone puts out nearly 10 hours of TV a week that's impossible to keep up with unless you really hate yourself, how can you expect people to get super psyched for single show that is 7 hours long? On a 3 day weekend where there are wrestling shows every 90 minutes, no less.

 

Even if WM was a super well booked show with lots of great matches and angles, 7 god damn hours is pretty hard to get excited about. The 4 hour WMs felt like they lasted a day even if they were decent.

[Jmare007]

That's another issue not really talked about when it comes to WM. There is SO MUCH wrestling content available at any time that it's hard to get too excited for any given show. When WWE alone puts out nearly 10 hours of TV a week that's impossible to keep up with unless you really hate yourself, how can you expect people to get super psyched for single show that is 7 hours long? On a 3 day weekend where there are wrestling shows every 90 minutes, no less.

 

Even if WM was a super well booked show with lots of great matches and angles, 7 god damn hours is pretty hard to get excited about. The 4 hour WMs felt like they lasted a day even if they were decent.

 

If Mania was a super well booked show with potential great matches in it, I'm pretty sure a whole lot of people would be excited about it. I know I would at least.

[Matt D]

Really strong mainstream Wrestlemania-Timed Big Show Article:

 

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2700298-ballad-of-the-big-show-wrestlemania-33-is-the-climax-of-blood-shaq-and-tears?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

[stro]

 

That's another issue not really talked about when it comes to WM. There is SO MUCH wrestling content available at any time that it's hard to get too excited for any given show. When WWE alone puts out nearly 10 hours of TV a week that's impossible to keep up with unless you really hate yourself, how can you expect people to get super psyched for single show that is 7 hours long? On a 3 day weekend where there are wrestling shows every 90 minutes, no less.

 

Even if WM was a super well booked show with lots of great matches and angles, 7 god damn hours is pretty hard to get excited about. The 4 hour WMs felt like they lasted a day even if they were decent.

 

If Mania was a super well booked show with potential great matches in it, I'm pretty sure a whole lot of people would be excited about it. I know I would at least.

 

I'm never going to be excited to watch 7 hours of anything in one sitting.

[KawadaSmile]

I'm more curious than excited. However, I don't think Wrestlemania has ever been a straight wrestling PPV. There always were some sort of celebrity involvement to varying degrees - the main event to the very first WM involved an actor.

 

It's always about entertainment in a more general sense - live performances, outlandish entrances, backstage skits, etc - something that can captivate not only the wrestling fan, but a broader audience as well. So in that sense, I think it can do a very good job, if not great.

 

I am expecting all the matches to deliver - with the exception of the Raw Tag Team match because I dislike 2/3 of the people involved - and quite honestly, the build to most of the matches have been very good.

 

Imagine if you were to split this year's WM into two PPVs: one with the RAW matches, and the other one with the SD matches. People would probably be more welcoming to those events, which would make me think that the lenght is usually a problem for them (teehee).

[Matt D]

I'm more curious than excited. However, I don't think Wrestlemania has ever been a straight wrestling PPV. There always were some sort of celebrity involvement to varying degrees - the main event to the very first WM involved an actor.

 

It's always about entertainment in a more general sense - live performances, outlandish entrances, backstage skits, etc - something that can captivate not only the wrestling fan, but a broader audience as well. So in that sense, I think it can do a very good job, if not great.

 

I think there are plenty of entertainment things we wouldn't mind seeing, too. Mr. T or Mayweather added something special. Just having Mary Tyler Moore in the crowd was surreal. Steve Allen backstage with a piano was amazing. The muppets and WWE can be fun. Bob Barker can be even more than that. I think Al Roker ring announcing the mixed tag makes a lot of sense. I'm less enthused about random, non-wrestler related concert acts that are there just because. It's one thing for someone to play Bray Wyatt to the ring or for Snoop to do what he did last year. It's another for Flo Rida or Kid Rock or whoever to take up twenty minutes.

[Childs]

I would be extremely pleased if WWE finally cut the chord with Flo Rida.

 

That said, I still get excited about Wrestlemania, even though I know it's foolish and I'll end up bitching for at least three of the four (four and a half? five?) hours. Even when it's a bad show, it's interesting to see how they design the big matches and what it says about their view of wrestling. It's also a truly communal event.

[artDDP]

The last WrestleMania I was genuinely excited for was probably XX because I wanted to see if you-know-who went over in the main event.

 

Since then I've watched but the event has become less about building feuds to a big blow-off and more about what epic match can be created virtually out of nowhere.

 

I'll be watching out of curiosity and loyalty but my enthusiasm and real interest just aren't there.

[WingedEagle]

I'm absolutely stoked for the show. Year after year I love the presentation aspects of the stadium, the entrances and how the show is produced. I think the card has a ton of potential to deliver at almost every turn. The main matches:

 

The Raw women's title match is unfortunately watered down but if given enough time to the elimination aspect gives us better than decent odds of a very good match. The women's 3 way was the best match on last year's show and I don't see why that iteration and the following 1 on 1 can't come together as part of a very good match if given enough time. More on that in a bit.

 

Triple H / Rollins feels about as cold as a marquee big match at Mania can. I haven't found any part of the build compelling -- not the angles, promos, nothing. I'm not looking forward to it at all. That being said, expectations are so low I won't be shocked if this massively overdelivers. If its a well paced brawl, perhaps with focused limb works, smart gimmicks and perhaps even a semi-annual blood exception I could see it being a real sleeper. The key is not to go too long. More on that in a bit.

 

Jericho/Owens -- feel very similar here as I do about the above match. I didn't enjoy their act at all through the fall, but the angle splitting them was incredibly well done and this should be pretty heated. Hopefully its laid out in a fashion that makes sense given the feud rather than as a straight title match. This is one that can probably go a little longer without overstaying its welcome.

 

Orton/Wyatt is another match where the build has left me cold, but if they stay away from Performance Center 101 chinlocks and basically work a Mania sprint title match -- and this is the most important aspect to me -- a strong, decisive clean finish? It could very well deliver beyond what TV has promised us. More on that in a bit.

 

Cena/Nikki vs. Miz/Maryse -- everyone seems to be looking forward to this. At worst the women will get more time and play a bigger role than we'd like, and at best Cena & Miz will be left alone to deliver a strong singles match before John gets locked down. Should be electric.

 

AJ/Shane is an unfortunate use of Styles, but I suppose its somewhat neat to see they value him enough to pull out a McMahon to ensure he has a big match. AJ is not Taker. If anyone can use gimmicks, bumping and storytelling to squeeze a solid or even good match of Shane, its AJ Styles. Let's just hope it doesn't go 30 like last year.

 

Brock/Goldberg isn't going 120 seconds. Not expecting anything approaching Brock/Roman here, but don't see why they can't aspire to do an 8-10 minute version of that with high spots and power stunts in the ring & around ringside the entire way. Maybe Goldberg can't handle that kind of physical taxing for that long, but its possible, right? Should be another strong finish. More on this one in a bit.

 

Taker/Roman is a question mark because Taker hasn't delivered at Mania in a few years. But if kept to a reasonable length and they have him take a fantastic beating only to eventually go down to some heel tactics from Roman this could be a pleasant surprise or a legit MOTN contender. Taker's matches with Brock in 2015 were very good and I'm not ruling out the possibility he could do that again. I think its important this is kept under 20 minutes with minimal wasted time.

 

I'm legitimately excited for it. I think there's a TON of potential up and down the card.

 

HOWEVER -- I can't say I'm necessarily optimistic about anything above being delivered in a memorable or outstanding fashion. I expect Trips/Rollins, Taker/Roman and AJ/Shane to go too long. I'm not confident the mixed tag will deliver a great match, even if as a spectacle and prototypical Mania moment its basically a lock. The show is going to go over 6+ hours when you factor in the preshow. Its tough for anything to resonate that well at that point unless you hit your notes pretty much on the mark.

 

So I'm totally prepared to be underwhelmed and wondering why I dented the couch for so long like last year, but on the other hand I'm totally pumped to see just what delivers, because almost everything could. Its a long shot, but until then there's a glimmer of hope.

[Strummer]

Jim Ross will be calling a match at mania.

 

 

My guess is Roman v Taker

 

 

nope apparently he's calling Goldberg v Brock and it looks like he could be back as a part timer

[gordi]

 

 

Ironically, the less I care about Mania as a show the more interested I get in possibly going to see Mania live. I guess because the less I'm worried about the card the more I can just treat it as a holiday and see America, experience Wrestlemania Weekend with all the shows and be in a big live crowd. One of my mates is going to Mania and I'm super jel, because I'm sure experiencing it live will be exponentially more fun than sitting through it at home.

 

If I had the opportunity to go tomorrow, I absolutely would. Even though nothing on the card excites me when I think about sitting in front of my computer for seven hours watching it... I'd be totally worked up if I was going to see it live. Closest I've come was going live to the Backlash after WMXX, and that was a great experience.

 

I'll probably come in around 9 pm once I get the four year old to sleep, rewind back to the battle royal, watch that and then jump back to where you guys are to join the support group.

 

I'll say this though: I am very much looking forward to the HOF this year though.

 

HOF last year was really enjoyable.

 

. Not really hostile to current WWE so much as I just have other wrestling I'd rather watch given the choice.

 

Yeah, "not really hostile" kind of describes my feelings toward current WWE as well Definitely have other stuff that I'd rather watch. I just wish WrestleMania could be an exception: Something I fell like I have to see. Last year and this year: not so much.

 

That's another issue not really talked about when it comes to WM. There is SO MUCH wrestling content available at any time that it's hard to get too excited for any given show. When WWE alone puts out nearly 10 hours of TV a week that's impossible to keep up with unless you really hate yourself, how can you expect people to get super psyched for single show that is 7 hours long? On a 3 day weekend where there are wrestling shows every 90 minutes, no less.

 

Even if WM was a super well booked show with lots of great matches and angles, 7 god damn hours is pretty hard to get excited about. The 4 hour WMs felt like they lasted a day even if they were decent.

 

 

Absolutely. And that's without even taking PWO2K and all the other available footage that I could be watching instead.

 

 

I still get excited about Wrestlemania

 

 

I am sincerely glad that someone does.

 

The last WrestleMania I was genuinely excited for was probably XX because I wanted to see if you-know-who went over in the main event.

 

Since then I've watched but the event has become less about building feuds to a big blow-off and more about what epic match can be created virtually out of nowhere.

 

I'll be watching out of curiosity and loyalty but my enthusiasm and real interest just aren't there.

 

I was really excited for XX because of Benoit, and I was really excited for XXX because of Bryan... I guess maybe I can look forward to being excited again for XL? Once every ten years is better than nothing.

 

I'm absolutely stoked for the show. Year after year I love the presentation aspects of the stadium, the entrances and how the show is produced. I think the card has a ton of potential to deliver at almost every turn. The main matches:

 

The Raw women's title match is unfortunately watered down but if given enough time to the elimination aspect gives us better than decent odds of a very good match. The women's 3 way was the best match on last year's show and I don't see why that iteration and the following 1 on 1 can't come together as part of a very good match if given enough time. More on that in a bit.

 

Triple H / Rollins feels about as cold as a marquee big match at Mania can. I haven't found any part of the build compelling -- not the angles, promos, nothing. I'm not looking forward to it at all. That being said, expectations are so low I won't be shocked if this massively overdelivers. If its a well paced brawl, perhaps with focused limb works, smart gimmicks and perhaps even a semi-annual blood exception I could see it being a real sleeper. The key is not to go too long. More on that in a bit.

 

Jericho/Owens -- feel very similar here as I do about the above match. I didn't enjoy their act at all through the fall, but the angle splitting them was incredibly well done and this should be pretty heated. Hopefully its laid out in a fashion that makes sense given the feud rather than as a straight title match. This is one that can probably go a little longer without overstaying its welcome.

 

Orton/Wyatt is another match where the build has left me cold, but if they stay away from Performance Center 101 chinlocks and basically work a Mania sprint title match -- and this is the most important aspect to me -- a strong, decisive clean finish? It could very well deliver beyond what TV has promised us. More on that in a bit.

 

Cena/Nikki vs. Miz/Maryse -- everyone seems to be looking forward to this. At worst the women will get more time and play a bigger role than we'd like, and at best Cena & Miz will be left alone to deliver a strong singles match before John gets locked down. Should be electric.

 

AJ/Shane is an unfortunate use of Styles, but I suppose its somewhat neat to see they value him enough to pull out a McMahon to ensure he has a big match. AJ is not Taker. If anyone can use gimmicks, bumping and storytelling to squeeze a solid or even good match of Shane, its AJ Styles. Let's just hope it doesn't go 30 like last year.

 

Brock/Goldberg isn't going 120 seconds. Not expecting anything approaching Brock/Roman here, but don't see why they can't aspire to do an 8-10 minute version of that with high spots and power stunts in the ring & around ringside the entire way. Maybe Goldberg can't handle that kind of physical taxing for that long, but its possible, right? Should be another strong finish. More on this one in a bit.

 

Taker/Roman is a question mark because Taker hasn't delivered at Mania in a few years. But if kept to a reasonable length and they have him take a fantastic beating only to eventually go down to some heel tactics from Roman this could be a pleasant surprise or a legit MOTN contender. Taker's matches with Brock in 2015 were very good and I'm not ruling out the possibility he could do that again. I think its important this is kept under 20 minutes with minimal wasted time.

 

I'm legitimately excited for it. I think there's a TON of potential up and down the card.

 

HOWEVER -- I can't say I'm necessarily optimistic about anything above being delivered in a memorable or outstanding fashion. I expect Trips/Rollins, Taker/Roman and AJ/Shane to go too long. I'm not confident the mixed tag will deliver a great match, even if as a spectacle and prototypical Mania moment its basically a lock. The show is going to go over 6+ hours when you factor in the preshow. Its tough for anything to resonate that well at that point unless you hit your notes pretty much on the mark.

 

So I'm totally prepared to be underwhelmed and wondering why I dented the couch for so long like last year, but on the other hand I'm totally pumped to see just what delivers, because almost everything could. Its a long shot, but until then there's a glimmer of hope.

 

That's an awesome post. I totally respect how you can see that there are very real reasons to doubt that this will be a great show (i.e the stuff I've bolded up there) but you are still stoked for the show. I genuinely envy you that. You seem to be a true fan.

 

I hope you and Childs enjoy the show. I hope we all do.

[gordi]

...I don't think Wrestlemania has ever been a straight wrestling PPV. There always were some sort of celebrity involvement to varying degrees - the main event to the very first WM involved an actor.

 

It's always about entertainment in a more general sense - live performances, outlandish entrances, backstage skits, etc - something that can captivate not only the wrestling fan, but a broader audience as well. So in that sense, I think it can do a very good job, if not great.

 

 

 

Given your avatar and user name, it's flat out f'n hilarious that we seem to have Kawada making the argument that it's about the flash and entertainment and bells and whistles and not about the wrestling

[El-P]

Reason #1 I don't give a flying fuck about Mania : Rusev & Lana won't be featured. That's it for me, considering all the boring, dull-ass schmucks who get the major stuff.

[cowboy hats]

Cool, so that's it for El-P posting about Mania 33 until after the show?

[Herodes]

It wouldn't be WWE event without El P repeatedly telling us how little of a flying fuck he gives about the show....followed by his thoughts on the show

[El-P]

I never said I didn't care about telling how much I don't care. Because there's so many reason not to care about it. Not having Lana & Rusev doing something meaningful being the sufficient reason for not caring, but not the only reason for not caring.

 

Hey, I actually wish to be proven wrong and that most of the show will be good if I have to watch it (notice the "have to").

 

The one thing I can be sure of is that the announcing can get me through most of it, because Agius & Chereau are that good and I know they will crack me up a few times. I didn't had that last year (was not living in France then).