No Mercy 2017

[sek69]

LOLOLOL they are really going to waste the return of the Shield on the fucking Miztorage.

[El-P]

That powerbomb looked like it might have legit broken her neck, so, there's no shame in being taken out of a match by it. It counterintuitively makes her look less tough to come back and not win.

 

Yeah, I thought about that too. She came back not selling one bit of damage, did a few spot then went flying off again while Bailey did the J.O.B. Bailey is done and Nia looks like the most incompetent monster ever. Which is fitting. There where three girls at least in the MYC doing the monster gig (despite not being as big) better than her. And even in terms of push, kayfabe wise, she's just nothing special at all.

 

Jordan getting a Rocky Maivia push "on purpose" is Russo level shit. Dwayne was a once in a lifetime case and they lucked into him after fucking up a babyface push (much like they lucked into Austin after having him not being allowed to talk because Vince didn't see shit in Austin on the mic). The idea that they could create something by artificially re-doing the same kind of character with Jordan (who's not exactly the most charismatic guy around either) is completely ridiculous.

[Johnny Sorrow]

The Maivia on purpose isn't with the thought that they're gonna end up with a new Rock. It's purely to make him a heel.

[El-P]

Ok. But making a babyface suck so he can be an effective heel eventually is really dumb as fuck too. Just be a fucking heel. It's pro-wrestling, it's simple.

[JKWebb]

I'm with peachchaos in that the tag match was my favorite match of the night. I hope they keep Cesaro and Sheamus together for a while, and eventually get the belts back on them. I too want to see them in the main event scene as well. I haven't watched Raw yet, because I prefer Hulu without commercials... but... I don't necessarily think the Shield guys vs. the Miz guys would be a bad thing. Miz is a pretty awesome heel. He deserves to be in the main event scene with them at this point. I can't think of anyone else cutting better heel promos right now.

[Boss Rock]

Ok. But making a babyface suck so he can be an effective heel eventually is really dumb as fuck too. Just be a fucking heel. It's pro-wrestling, it's simple.

 

Nope, it needs to be extremely convoluted and counter-productive. The treatment of faces is absolutely mind-blowing.

[NintendoLogic]

You pretty much have to accept that finishers in WWE have magical match-ending properties that other moves don't. The problem is that non-finisher moves have escalated so much in danger and impact while the finishers remain relatively tame. There's a bit of a disconnect when guys are taking All Japan-style head drops and apron bumps only for the match to end on a DDT.

[Stiva]

LOLOLOL they are really going to waste the return of the Shield on the fucking Miztorage.

 

Like, wasn't 85% of The Shield's appeal is that they'd have awesome tags with the other good teams/units of the time? Who is there for them to work with in 6 mans that Ambrose and Rollins wouldn't work as tag champs anyway?

[iamthedoctor]

Oh, Jordan is totally getting the Rocky Maivia on purpose treatment. It's even more obvious after last night.

 

I don't recall Rock losing that many matches when he was a face when he came in. From memory he stood out strong in his big debut match and won the IC belt 3 months later.

[Johnny Sorrow]

No, its the whole " here's an all American wholesome baby face that the plan is to be a heel because he's an entitled son of the coach" deal. The comparison to Rocky is just the "smiling good guy" thing. They're not doing a note for note remake.

[DMJ]

To explain, the "Rocky Miavia Treatment" refers less to wins & losses or the way they initially pushed The Rock.

 

In 96', the WWE/Vince still believed that if they took a handsome guy with a good look/size, gave him big hype ("The First 3rd Generation Superstar," "The Blue Chipper"), had him smile all the time and beat universally hated archetypical villains (The Sultan, the Blue Blood Helmsley, etc.) and debuted him at a big show (Survivor Series, I believe), they could manufacture the next Hulk Hogan.

 

Only when you add sugar to more sugar to more sugar, you end up with something so sweet that it was vile and the fan backlash happened and ultimately led The Rock to becoming The Rock.

 

In 96', it could almost be described as a happy accident.

 

Then, they kinda did the same thing with Angle when he debuted. He had legit Gold Medals, smiled alot, and spoke about positivity - but the audience was now viewing those things as annoying and uncool, so, his Good Guy Act made him a de-facto heel.

 

 

With Jordan, the "Rocky Maivia Treatment" idea is that they have a guy who is ostensibly doing things a "pure babyface" should do. He's even a "second generation superstar." He doesn't cheat and wrestles fairly. Only, now, in 2017, they believe that if they continue doing these things, he will become a red hot heel (like the Rock and Angle before him). But as someone else said mentioned, the idea of creating an uncool babyface to end up with a "cool" heel is pretty stupid (and, I'd add, so ridiculously overdone by now as its the same thing we got with The New Day just a couple years ago).

[sek69]

Thinking this is some kind of "Rocky treatment on purpose" comes off as smarter people than the writers trying to justify the horrible booking JJ's got so far.

 

Plus it's not something you could ever redo if you wanted to, since it only worked back then because it was done to the guy who had more charisma than anyone before or since in the history of the business.

[PeteF3]

Also, pushing a guy as a pure babyface just so he can turn heel is something that literally only ever worked in the Attitude Era. In a PG era where babyfaces aren't really allowed to be "cool" there's nothing really separating him from other faces. They're all dorks, just to differing degrees.

[Johnny Sorrow]

It's the only reason for doing the Kurt's his dad angle. And again, they aren't doing it to create a cool heel or new Rock.

[El-P]

It doesn't even matter why they are doing it. It's just Wrestlecrap material : the angle is stupid (pun intended), the promos are shit, no one cares, Jordan is not getting over in any way. The same kind of thing in WCW in 98 would get slaughtered and no one in their right mind would even try to rationalize nor defend it. The standards have dropped so fucking low because of 17 years of Adult-Contemporary Soap WWE writing...

[Matt D]

It doesn't even matter why they are doing it. It's just Wrestlecrap material : the angle is stupid (pun intended), the promos are shit, no one cares, Jordan is not getting over in any way. The same kind of thing in WCW in 98 would get slaughtered and no one in their right mind would even try to rationalize nor defend it. The standards have dropped so fucking low because of 17 years of Adult-Contemporary Soap WWE writing...

To be fair, one difference is that it's leading to a couple of good matches, no?

[sek69]

I don't even get what the end game could be. Are they going to reveal it was part of Jason's evil plan to trick everyone? No one is buying it. Are they going to keep up the pretense that he's his son? That's dying a death currently. So their only options are to keep fucking that chicken or make him a heel with the worst "dastardly plan" ever.

[PeteF3]

It's the only reason for doing the Kurt's his dad angle. And again, they aren't doing it to create a cool heel or new Rock.

 

Of course not--they're creating a dorky heel to feud with dorky babyfaces.

[El-P]

 

It doesn't even matter why they are doing it. It's just Wrestlecrap material : the angle is stupid (pun intended), the promos are shit, no one cares, Jordan is not getting over in any way. The same kind of thing in WCW in 98 would get slaughtered and no one in their right mind would even try to rationalize nor defend it. The standards have dropped so fucking low because of 17 years of Adult-Contemporary Soap WWE writing...

To be fair, one difference is that it's leading to a couple of good matches, no?

 

I'd rather watch a good match from WCW 1998 than a good match from WWE 2017 anyway, because of the formulaic ways of the current TV work (not to mention the annoying production). So, nope. It's *just* stupid.

[Alucard]

Also don't like how Alexa seemingly never loses. It's really unbelievable, even as far as pro-wrestling goes.

 

It's very possible she puts over Asuka, but it's still extremely counter-productive to the rest of the division when she wins clean every single time.

 

This is absolutely not true and is almost completely opposite.

 

Alexa lost clean to Nia on Raw just last week. She lost the title clean to Sasha at SummerSlam after losing by countout to her at Great Balls and in between those lost clean to Bayley on Raw to originally set up SummerSlam. Yes she won the title back and retained it here (which I think is clearly to set up her eventual destruction by Asuka), but her losses are a lot more than her wins. Even her last month on Smackdown, she lost to Mickie and put over Naomi three straight times. She's gotta have some credibility so she has to win the big matches sometimes, even if it's rare.

[DMJ]

I agree with all the points above re: Jordan. I'm not trying to rationalize what is a very dumb angle.

 

...but I absolutely believe that this IS "the plan." I definitely believe the WWE thinks they can "outsmart" the fans into having Jordan get over as a heel by having him be an annoying babyface.

 

And I don't think this is an Attitude Era-only idea. Again, look at New Day's positivity and the initial reaction to them. Look at what they tried to do with Bo Dallas.

 

I don't think its a good angle - but to say that the WWE isn't steering into the Jordan hate seems kind of obtuse (at least from what I've seen). He's not Reigns or Cena, they're not calling Jordan "controversial," I don't think the plan is to force-feed Jordan into being a babyface like them. From what I've seen, the plan is to make the audience find him corny and cheesy and eventually see if people will pay to see him get his goofy ass kicked.

 

Which, again, isn't dissimilar to New Day. Look back at that those early promos - in today's meta-heavy WWE, do you really think the writers thought a gospel choir-backed trio of positive-minded, brightly-dressed nerds was going to get over as fan favorites from the jump? A cursory review of their wikipedia page reveals early feuds with "smart" fan favorites like the Rhodes Brothers and Cesaro/Kidd even before they "officially" turned heel. My prediction, sooner than later, Jordan feuds with Bray - another heel that (inexplicably to me, but undeniably) gets face reactions from a segment of the audience whenever he takes out a babyface they aren't behind (Reigns, for example).

[sek69]

The New Day got over because they took a shit gimmick and used their charisma and personalities to make it work. It was like a modern day Dusty and the polka dots. To think that it was some plan to out smart the smart fans again seems to be giving the creative team way more credit than all available evidence would suggest they deserve.

 

The Occam's Razor option here seems to be that they really think this is the way to build a babyface, based on the way they've completely kneecapped every other babyface by booking them as the same dorky loser.

[El-P]

Don't forget they also got Daniel Bryan over. Yes, it was the actual plan. Yes it was !

[SomethingSavage]

Regarding Jason Jordan and the plan to have him rejected by the audience - a key ingredient in the Rocky situation was his ability to lash out at the fan base and throw it all back in their faces. When Rocky came back from injury and hooked up with the Nation, the FIRST thing he did was grab a mic and spew venom at the crowds for chanting "Die, Rocky, Die." It added much-needed fuel to the fire for him at the time, but it also put him on their radar and got him more heat. Eventually, of course, the guy's charm and charisma was too much and people grew to love him for the act.

 

Does Jason Jordan *really* have any of that in him? I mean, I realize it's kind of early to condemn the guy completely or anything. But I don't see any signs of that personality at all. Maybe there's a spark somewhere in there. But, at some stage, if the "plan" is supposed to lead to anything substantial for him as a heel - then he's going to have to come back swinging at the fans for their rejection of him. Otherwise, yeah. He just comes across like a goof and a try-hard who got picked on by the other kids.

[Microstatistics]

Brock looked like complete dogshit. He's either totally done, got hurt, or sandbagged Braun. Whatever the case may be it went south quick on the kimura and it was pretty clearly all on Brock. At one point he was visibly lost and I worried about his health as he laid on the mat with Braun desperately trying to feed to Brock for a triangle or a kimura. Brock legit looked like someone with dementia who had just fallen and broken their hip. He was totally confused, lost, and gassed at that point and he never came back. He's really been a shit show for the bulk of this return, but he's the only protected guy so he has star power. They could have made Braun tonight and didn't which I can accept even though it's garbage, but to put in that level of performance when the company gives you every advantage on Earth is just trash.

 

Huh? Do people agree with this assessment? Not only do I strongly disagree with all of this, I thought Brock was actually great in that match. Nice character work with him from trying to play it cool to actually looking concerned. Strong and selfless bumping and selling for a large chunk of the match. The kimura was actually a great desperation spot and turned the match on its head. He continued to sell deep into the postmatch. I guess I'm probably the only person who thought the main event was actually a great match.

 

Good show overall. Unfortunately, Cena/Reigns was the usual boringness I have come to expect from a modern John Cena match (though I did enjoy his initial character work and stuff like him selling his hand while throwing punches)