Roman Reigns as the ace post-Wrestlemania

[sek69]

I'm confused about all these stories going around. First we assumed Brock was leaving and Roman was winning. Then Brock wins, and we hear Brock is staying and there are even rumors Vince is finally souring on Roman. Now the hot new rumor is that Brock really is leaving, and the story that he isn't is just a "work?" On top of that, you get these rumors that Brock threw the belt at Vince and Shane after his match, rumors that Vince changed the finish either right before the fight or if you believe some people, during the fight. Stories that the Anoa'i family are super-pissed at Vince (again.) There are rumors Vince is doing this because rich Saudis are paying him a ton of money for a title change on April 27. Now some people are saying Roman's promo on Raw last night was a "worked shoot."

 

I wish I knew how much of this was true and how much is a strange attempt at some new kind of Russo-esque working the boys/media/fans deal.

 

Anybody have any theories on which parts of these stories are actually true?

 

 

Well it seems clear that Roman was set to win, Vince changed plans in the last week, and the only person outside of the two of them who knew was Roman (and the ref, during the match).

 

From there it's hazy. Everyone agrees there was a spat between Vince and Brock, but no one's sure if that was a work or not. Shane acting like he was going to step to Brock makes it seem like it was a work.

 

They did get a boatload of money from the Saudis for their show, everyone who's part of the Vision 2030 plan the Prince is doing is getting piles of cash as PR to rehab the image of SA.

 

Did they ask Vince to push the title change to their show? Did Vince just volunteer to do it because of the money he got? Like the number of licks to the center of a Tootsie Pop, the world may never know. What we do know is that Roman got made to look like a chump in front of 70k people, and that's going to be hard to overcome.

[Grimmas]

I have a very strange feeling that Lashley will be given Roman's spot as the new top male star.

 

Ronda will be the true top star in the promotion though.

[SomethingSavage]

Has there been any clarification or clear indication as to what the plans are for Ronda, in terms of how often she'll work or be at TV? I mean, are they going to program her month to month for the specials, or will she only be brought in three or four times similar to Brock?

 

I'd like a sweet middle ground, something closer to Austin's schedule - wherein she's working bit matches at the PPVs but not necessarily stuck on the treadmill of endless rematches they use to kill time on TV. Nothing would erode her aura quicker than that.

[FMKK]

Has there been any clarification or clear indication as to what the plans are for Ronda, in terms of how often she'll work or be at TV? I mean, are they going to program her month to month for the specials, or will she only be brought in three or four times similar to Brock?

 

I'd like a sweet middle ground, something closer to Austin's schedule - wherein she's working bit matches at the PPVs but not necessarily stuck on the treadmill of endless rematches they use to kill time on TV. Nothing would erode her aura quicker than that.

 

I feel like that latter paragraph is what they'll try to do with her. They're clearly going to keep her with Stephanie for a while, but I hope they're smart enough not to have that descend into endless TV handicap matches or whatever. After how they've promoted her there's no way she can have a schedule as limited as Brock's.

[Richeyedwards]

I have a very strange feeling that Lashley will be given Roman's spot as the new top male star.

 

Lashley is certainly not a long term solution either he is 41 now.

[Strummer]

Im pretty sure the immediate plan for Ronda is Steph sicking her women's evolution corporate godchildren on her . And yeah I was thinking handicap matches so Steph can get heat on her. I would assume the Summerslam match will be a gimmick match with Steph somehow involved

[El-P]

The "This is awful" and "You both suck" chants came out loud and clear on the French feed (on which sometimes seems like the crowd is not as loud as on the original, as can be heard during the music themes for instance)

 

This whole story with Brock is kinda crazy. I wish WCW was still around...

 

Isn't that crazy that one guy who has been the talk of the week-end is Quebecer Pierre Carl Oulette ? I can't wait to watch this match, Oulette is a sentimental favourite of mine.

[FMKK]

PCO and Stephanie McMahon the MVPs of the weekend. Who would have guessed that?

[Mad Dog]

 

 

 

I wonder if they get cold feet every time it's time to pull the trigger. They really want him to be the guy and then at the last minute they realize it might hurt ratings.

Hes still been a featured star for five years or something so if he was going to damage ratings it would already have happened. I know they arent the be all and end all but he tends to be in the top bracket of stars on their YouTube videos so theres obviously some interest in him, just not from the sorts that go to the shows - especially the big ones.

 

Besides, Seth Rollins got a 9 month title run that only ended due to injury even though it was an all-time ratings killer. I dont think thats the primary concern.

I don't think he would be a huge negative. Certainly not a disaster like Rollins was but I don't think he moves the needle in a positive way either. Being a net neutral isn't necessarily bad though when it comes to being on top.

 

Maybe this is just a short sighted choice to wait for the rematch. Which is stupid. That was the kind of job that you don't come back from.

 

 

If he was going to be at best a neutral to minor net negative then the sensible decision would still be just to let him have the belt for six months and get this thing over the hump once and for all while signalling to fans that the endless stop-start is over. I think that would ease a lot of the frustration tbh, just for fans to know that we've finally got to the next stage of the push. Then if they aren't satisfied, get the title onto Braun or Lashley at Summerslam and either turn the guy or give him a few months away from TV to regroup. Ronda can be the draw now anyway.

 

 

Yeah, I don't get it. Especially since they were more than happy to ruin Smackdown for 6+ months with Jinder Mahal's push.

[SomethingSavage]

Lashley doesn't necessarily need to be the next long-term solution in order to be the next guy. But they've got to start somewhere. Remaking Lashley could prove to be a money-making project if it produces another major player or main event star - even in the short-term. That's a net positive. Introducing another guy into that top mix helps to keep things fresh. Discarding an option simply because it's not the absolute most sustainable is shortsighted and silly.

 

Their whole obsession with age is weird enough in the first place. It gave them their true top ace in Cena, but it simultaneously produced one of the most lackluster main eventers they've ever had in Orton. So there you go.

 

Alternatively, some guys have put together their best runs later in life. Batista and Mark Henry are decent enough examples of that.

[Mad Dog]

Lashley doesn't necessarily need to be the next long-term solution in order to be the next guy. But they've got to start somewhere. Remaking Lashley could prove to be a money-making project if it produces another major player or main event star - even in the short-term. That's a net positive. Introducing another guy into that top mix helps to keep things fresh. Discarding an option simply because it's not the absolute most sustainable is shortsighted and silly.

 

Their whole obsession with age is weird enough in the first place. It gave them their true top ace in Cena, but it simultaneously produced one of the most lackluster main eventers they've ever had in Orton. So there you go.

 

Alternatively, some guys have put together their best runs later in life. Batista and Mark Henry are decent enough examples of that.

 

Thing is, what if you only get 12 months out of Lashley and then he needs to be pushed back down the card? That's still a year. I think there's a really big hang up finding a long term John Cena when sometimes you should just take the hot hand while it lasts. You could try and fail for 5 years to find a solution or you can spend the next 5 years going through 4-6 guys that the fans attach to. I think both are equally as viable.

[SomethingSavage]

Absolutely in agreement with that. I understand the desire to find another Cena to run on top for a decade plus. But, in the meantime, you've got a revolving door of temporarily over guys. So run with them until you've built or discovered that next long-term solution. It ain't rocket science. The audience will never not tell you exactly who they want in that spot.

 

What's the downside? You make a lot of money off these guys for a few months at a time rather than a few years?

[sek69]

Lashley doesn't necessarily need to be the next long-term solution in order to be the next guy. But they've got to start somewhere. Remaking Lashley could prove to be a money-making project if it produces another major player or main event star - even in the short-term. That's a net positive. Introducing another guy into that top mix helps to keep things fresh. Discarding an option simply because it's not the absolute most sustainable is shortsighted and silly.

 

Their whole obsession with age is weird enough in the first place. It gave them their true top ace in Cena, but it simultaneously produced one of the most lackluster main eventers they've ever had in Orton. So there you go.

 

Alternatively, some guys have put together their best runs later in life. Batista and Mark Henry are decent enough examples of that.

 

 

All that is true but WWE is run by a guy who has hang-ups on age and feels people stop being marketable at a preset point.

[SomethingSavage]

Which is exactly what bit him in the ass and gave him a serious case of butthurt back in the mid-nineties, when all those discarded "too old guys" got together and basically ran a reunion tour over on his competitors' TV.

[Boss Rock]

I still think Bryan and Ronda are the ideal top stars right now and you can also work in A.J, Braun, and Lashley with them.

[SomethingSavage]

Besides all that, AJ Styles is experiencing all-time career heights and popularity as WWE Champion at the same age. I don't exactly think it's unfathomable to imagine Vince green lighting a Lashley run up top.

[Slasher]

Maybe if the WWE found a sitter they could bring back Monty Brown to be their Guy.

[SPS]

 

Yeah there's been zero evidence he's ever refused to job to someone, he just makes them look like shit if he doesn't think they're at his level.

In the physical condition he currently he is in he will make everyone, including himself, look like shit. It's funny looking at him that there is talk of him fighting in UFC again. If he does it's really just a cash-grab because at this point he is in worse shape than 50 year-old PCO. I am sure that from a pure skill-level there are some heavyweights in UFC that Brock can hold on the mat for 15 minutes, but at this point any top 20 heavyweight will anihilate him.

 

 

Come on, worse shape than a 50 year old PCO?

 

PCO is in great condition for his age but Brock is still in good shape and acting like the UFC heavyweight division is a field of adonis marathon men is absurd. Look at a hot prospect like N'Gannou who gassed out in 1 round and guys like Derek Lewis and Mark Hunt and you can see Heavyweight has and always will be a thin division as it hard to find great fighters who can go hard for 3 to 5 rounds weighing 240+.

 

Brock could easily go through a training camp and provided he doesn't suffer any serious injury beat majority of the currently ranked top 10 of todays UFC HW division. Most of the top 10 are as old as him and in the same or even worse physical shape.

 

I'm all for expressing dislikes about Brock but saying stuff like this is really reaching, Brock at near 41 is still a better athlete than most guys half his age at his size.

[SomethingSavage]

And, like I said before, comparing his conditioning at a staged theatrical performance to his actual fighting shape is ridiculous anyhow. Brock may be lazy when he's allowed to be or left to his own devices, but he's no dummy. When his payday depends on it, the guy knows to show up in shape.

[C.S.]

A Lashley World Title run hardly excites me, but there's a difference between a run and making him "the guy."

 

He'll never be "the guy" but he'll get a run. No big deal, other than making the worthless Universal Title picture even duller.

 

Joe vs. Lashley at next year's WM? I'm getting sleepy just thinking about it.

 

In the meantime, the Joe vs. Roman feud could actually be compelling. I've been waiting years for Joe to position himself as a Samoan outsider - the ONE Samoan who ISN'T in the Anoa'i family. I'm not a fan of Joe, but that practically writes itself. Now I kinda wish they didn't waste the absurd "Vince's boy" storyline on Lesnar, when it would be perfect for Joe vs. Roman.

[FMKK]

A Lashley World Title run hardly excites me, but there's a difference between a run and making him "the guy."He'll never be "the guy" but he'll get a run. No big deal, other than making the worthless Universal Title picture even duller.Joe vs. Lashley at next year's WM? I'm getting sleepy just thinking about it.In the meantime, the Joe vs. Roman feud could actually be compelling. I've been waiting years for Joe to position himself as a Samoan outsider - the ONE Samoan who ISN'T in the Anoa'i family. I'm not a fan of Joe, but that practically writes itself. Now I kinda wish they didn't waste the absurd "Vince's boy" storyline on Lesnar, when it would be perfect for Joe vs. Roman.

There's no chance they book Joe in a Mania title match if he even stays healthy long enough to make it.

 

BRAUN is the answer to their problems here.

[C.S.]

There's no chance they book Joe in a Mania title match if he even stays healthy long enough to make it.

 

BRAUN is the answer to their problems here.

BRAUN is indeed the answer, but with two World Titles, Joe's chances are as good as anyone's - the ice cold Nakamura got pushed into that spot despite being completely underwhelming on the main roster and giving AJ Styles his worst big match on PPV (not counting the ones with KO).

 

I'm not saying *I* want to see Joe in that position - Nicholas would be more interesting to me than Joe - but to say there isn't a chance seems inaccurate to me, especially in a year that Ronda will (probably) be the true main event anyway.

[SomethingSavage]

To be fair, I *do* believe they view Braun as their best bet going forward. His recent booking lines up perfectly with their usual treatment of the next big baby face. They're stripping away alot of the elements that made him appealing in the first place, and he'll probably be a Big Show clone by the time he actually gets the belt.

 

Certainly hope I'm wrong about that and we get a repeat of Braun's 2017 (or something really close), but some of their recent booking patterns don't exactly instill much faith.

[DMJ]

I'm as confused as everyone else it seems about this Roman booking. I mean, he really has nowhere to go now it seems. Even the heel turn so many have been clamoring for would make little sense now - what would the impetus be? He didn't get screwed, he lost clean and decisively.

 

And, as others have pointed out, by kicking out of a half-dozen F5s, he comes off less likeable than AJ and Strowman and others who've been put down by 1.

 

Again, as others have said, they fucked Roman in multiple ways. First, by trolling the audience and having him kickout of Lesnar's finish multiple times, teasing the anti-Reigns audience into booing him even more. Then, by having him lose the match - a match which was layed out so poorly that, if you wanted to say Lesnar and Reigns only "know 2 moves" and are repetitive and boring, well, here's all the ammo you'll ever need.

 

It truly is an incredible feat what they did there - they made Reigns look like a chump in kayfabe by losing, they helped build the case that Roman sucks as a performer (despite having several outstanding matches over the past 2 years), they still managed to make it seem like he's been "forced down our throats" by having him kickout of multiple F5s, and they also went with having The Guy Who Only Does It For The Money defeat The Guy Who Does It Because Its In His Blood.

 

 

I can't think of any reason why they went with Lesnar over Reigns at Mania. If Reigns wins in Saudi Arabia, it won't help either. At all. They've fucked him. And, thus, they've fucked themselves and wasted 3 years.

[Mad Dog]

I think the only way you salvage this is you work suspend Lesnar for the Vince thing. Then you just hand the belt to Reigns on Raw with no fanfare and then just have him cut sincere promos about how hard he worked for the belt and how he earned it. I think that would work.