Wrestlemania 34

[El-P]

He took the back door I heard.

[SomethingSavage]

Front entrance was a total train wreck, to be fair.

[gordi]

Watched the show last night with my one gaijin friend who is a big WWE fan. We watched it on a well-known video-sharing website (The one based in San Bruno, California) in a format that cut out a lot of the between-match stuff so it was "only" three and a half hours or so. I watches the pre-show and the post-WM RAW after I got home, reading through this thread in the down spots, so I could share in the "staying up all night to watch WM" vibe. The first 50 or so pages of this thread were great. I wish I could have watched the show live and commented along with all y'all.

 

I was totally burned out by the end of the main show, even in the abridged version... but after the 30 minute bus-ride home I was ready for more (and curious enough about where they were going with Nicholas) that I got right on to RAW.

 

I was half-asleep and paying more attention to this thread than to the show but I enjoyed the (also abridged) pre-show enough that I managed to watch the whole thing before passing out.

 

My main (hot) take on the whole thing: Very very unpredictable.

 

I didn't see the Matt and Bray team-up coming. That could be fun for a while until we all get sick of it. Hopefully they don't beat it to death too quickly. I enjoyed Jeff's surprise return on RAW and laughed at the backstage interaction between the three of them (or, more accurately, I laughed at Rollins and Baylor's reaction to it).

 

Cruiserweight Tournament Finals match was OK. The "Heart!"/"Soul!" stuff felt a little forced, but I hadn't watched the build-up and so I had no context for it.

 

Women's Battle Royal was really good. I liked the story at the end with Bayley screwing over her friend, thinking she'd won because of that, then ultimately losing anyway.

 

Triple Threat IC match was better than I expected. The pace and split-second timing was pretty impressive.

 

I really enjoyed the hell out of Flair vs Asuka. I'm a huge Asuka mark because she's from Osaka and when he was called Kana she often showed up at local indie shows and events. I'm not too upset about the streak ending, that kind of thing can become an albatross eventually, and I think they let it go on long enough that she's established as a legit threat to anyone in the division. I liked how Flair kept selling the shoulder right up through the finish. I LOVED the top rope counter into the Triangle Choke! What a great spot!

 

Fatal Four Way: Yikes. Jinder going over Russev clean is pretty much straight troll booking. At least they kept it short.

 

Up to this point, I would have lost all of my money had I been betting on match outcomes. Just surprise after surprise so far.

 

I agree with all of the praise being heaped on the Roussey match. She really came through. The whole thing made me happy. That was the good kind of surprise

 

Triple Threat was in a death spot. It sounds like they at least gave New Day and Usos the chance to tear it up on the post-WM SmackDown. Looking forward to watching that. Again, I was a bit surprised by the result.

 

The Elias troll job was pretty damned funny, and the "We are scum-bags" chant on RAW legit cracked me up.

 

When Cena vs Taker started, I said to my friend, "If this goes long it will be horrible. I hope they keep it short." I got my wish! Definitely did not see a straight-up squash match coming. Crazy!

 

I loved DB getting the hottest of hot tags. Love seeing him back, but I cringe every time he takes a bump now.

 

I LOVED angry monster Nia Jax. The James beat-down was horrifying, like my exaggerated memories of some Vader match. I thought Bliss going after her eyes was exactly the right heel move. Surprised that match didn't get more love in this thread.

 

All through AJ vs Nakamura I kept thinking, "Maybe I'm just tired." I popped for the counter-into-the-Styles-Clash finish, but otherwise...

 

Turns out, it wasn't just me. Post-match was great, though. Yet another big surprise, and heel Nakamura could be really fun.

 

Braun going out into the crowd and picking a 10-year-old to be his partner was so predictable. How many times have we seen that one?

 

As I said, I was so interested in seeing where they went with this that I got started on RAW as soon as I got home. I texted my friend that Nicholas failed his drug test and so he and Braun were stripped of the belts. I actually liked how they handled it on RAW.

 

Main Event was mostly terrible. Everyone came out of that looking worse. I never could have predicted that the Rousey match would blow Roman vs Brock out of the water, but here we are. As has been said already, total video game finisher spamming. Complete waste of the Crimson Mask. Poorly booked, and poorly worked.

 

Still: Possibly the best first half of a WrestleMania ever. I enjoyed the show. Probably enjoyed the first 50 or so pages of this thread even more.

[Microstatistics]

A little late but here is my WrestleMania review. Decent but utterly bizarre show.

 

Seth Rollins vs. Finn Balor vs. The Miz: Don't care about any of these guys but this was alright. Action packed. Solid opener.

 

Charlotte vs. Asuka: I don't usually care about booking and maybe it's because I don't really like Charlotte but fuck that finish. What a waste of Asuka's momentum and the streak. Plus the way it was executed made it so much worse. Charlotte, with an injured arm, grabs a Figure 8 out of nowhere and the invincible Asuka submits within seconds? Really? Good match but the finish left a bad taste in my mouth.

 

Jinder Mahal vs. Randy Orton vs. Bobby Roode vs. Rusev: Kind of a nothing match to be honest

 

Kurt Angle/Ronda Rousey vs. Triple H/Stephanie McMahon: Not a great match or even close but a really fun spectacle and, like people said, way better than expected. Kurt and HHH wrestling in slow motion was odd but Stephanie's heel antics were fantastic. She was arguably the MVP. I like KB8's Naoya Ogawa comparision for Ronda except Ogawa was terrible during his first year. Ronda looked great. Very fluid with natural charisma and energy.

 

Bludgeon Brothers vs. Usos vs. New Day - Decent squash, I guess the Bludgeon Brothers are the Braun of the tag division

 

John Cena vs. The Undertaker - I like the idea of Cena crying about the Undertaker for weeks and then getting squashed because he wasn't prepared for him actually showing up.

 

Daniel Bryan/Shane McMahon vs. Kevin Owens/Sami Zayn ​- Ok match, though I expected more violence and hate. Great to see Bryan back though.

 

Alexa Bliss vs. Nia Jax - Second best match of the night. Jax destroying Mickie James from the get-go was great. Alexa was awesome here. I think she's quite underrated in general. In between the chickenshit act, there was eye gouging and neat attacks on the leg. She took some nutty bumps near the end too.

 

AJ Styles vs. Shinsuke Nakamura - Best match of the night. I know people were disappointed by this, which is understandable, but I liked it a lot. Not quite great but still. Not a fan of Nakamura but he turned a great performance here: intense, focused with some excellent knee selling. Styles was Styles. Working a more "epic" formula would probably have fit the setting better but I liked the deliberate pacing and attention to detail.

 

Braun Strowman/Nicholas vs. Cesaro/Sheamus - Cesaro's interactions with the kid made this. Probably a little long.

 

Brock Lesnar vs. Roman Reigns - Brock would probably make my Top 50 if we did GWE again. Roman is really good. Their WM31 match is an all time classic. Yet, I was skeptical. And for good reason.

 

This was bad. To be fair, there were some neat moments that saved it from being complete trash. Brock tossing pieces of the table at the German announce team, Roman getting suplexed face first into the table, Brock hooking both legs on the finish, Lesnar's high knee, the awkward violent spear into the table. Other than that, this was borderline awful.

 

It was obviously Roman was going to kick out of an F-5 (maybe two) since they had protected it for a year. But the 3 F-5 kickouts in a row was ridiculous and the match essentially ventured into parody territory. The hardway spot was completely wasted too and meant nothing at the end of the day. Roman kicking out of 2 more F-5s (5 total) only to be pinned by a 6th was mindnumbingly stupid. Both guys were boring and brought nothing when it came to selling or character work (a complete 180 from their match 3 years ago). Bad performance by both. Plus the fact Roman is likely going to win the title at the end of the month makes all of this even more pointless.

 

 

[Boss Rock]

Totally agree on the finish to Charlotte-Asuka, even if I thought it was one of if not the best match of the night.

[DMJ]

 

Alexa Bliss vs. Nia Jax - Second best match of the night. Jax destroying Mickie James from the get-go was great. Alexa was awesome here. I think she's quite underrated in general. In between the chickenshit act, there was eye gouging and neat attacks on the leg. She took some nutty bumps near the end too.

 

 

I'm so glad to have read this here - I actually came on just to note how much I think this match is getting slept on. I get it that people expected a squash, I understand that people wanted a squash, but Nia Jax has never looked invincible and Alexa Bliss, at least in my opinion, has lived up to the "5 Feet of Fury" thing by being sneaky and clever and taking cheapshots and shortcuts. As you said, she gouged eyes and went after the legs. Plus, by giving this 10 minutes, I thought it was a nice way to keep the RAW Women's Title looking equal to the SmackDown despite Charlotte/Asuka getting more pageantry, better card placement, etc. A totally above average match that told a great story from beginning to end (love Mickie James getting tossed around early) and gave the crowd a feel-good moment late in the show.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

 

 

 

Alexa Bliss vs. Nia Jax - Second best match of the night. Jax destroying Mickie James from the get-go was great. Alexa was awesome here. I think she's quite underrated in general. In between the chickenshit act, there was eye gouging and neat attacks on the leg. She took some nutty bumps near the end too.

 

I'm so glad to have read this here - I actually came on just to note how much I think this match is getting slept on. I get it that people expected a squash, I understand that people wanted a squash, but Nia Jax has never looked invincible and Alexa Bliss, at least in my opinion, has lived up to the "5 Feet of Fury" thing by being sneaky and clever and taking cheapshots and shortcuts. As you said, she gouged eyes and went after the legs. Plus, by giving this 10 minutes, I thought it was a nice way to keep the RAW Women's Title looking equal to the SmackDown despite Charlotte/Asuka getting more pageantry, better card placement, etc. A totally above average match that told a great story from beginning to end (love Mickie James getting tossed around early) and gave the crowd a feel-good moment late in the show.

I loved this match. This was my favorite feud coming in and I thought they nailed it. Crowd was quiet for a while but they showed up when Nia won.

[KawadaSmile]

I guess the crowd, like most of us, was expecting a squash, and the betrayal of their expectations led them to a more subdued reaction.

 

However: Nia/Alexa was fucking great. They had a short airtime compared to other matches, but they told an actually moving story in the ring, all things considered. I'd legit rank it on the same level as Ciampa/Gargano in terms of stortytelling through body language, even if the latter did have better action.

 

Unsure about what Alexa getting squashed at the following RAW means for her, but as far as the feud goes, that was dope.

[iamthedoctor]

 

 

I have no problems with Asuka losing. The bigger issue to me is that she submitted. A streak ending on a finish so decisive seems overdone.

 

Would a screwjob have been better?

 

 

No, but a pinfall would have. The time to do the countout or DQ is on TV with someone like Alexa or Carmela. My point was that they still had more fuel left in that tank before they emptied it.

 

 

Looking back now it just seems odd to have Asuka lose her streak and then two days later Charlotte drops the title.

 

For me I feel they had more mileage on a undefeated Womens WWE Champion. But being Wrestlemania im not sure how they would preserve the streak if Asuka doesnt win but stays undefeated without a DQ or Countout.

[Gutenberger]

I guess the crowd, like most of us, was expecting a squash, and the betrayal of their expectations led them to a more subdued reaction.

 

However: Nia/Alexa was fucking great. They had a short airtime compared to other matches, but they told an actually moving story in the ring, all things considered. I'd legit rank it on the same level as Ciampa/Gargano in terms of stortytelling through body language, even if the latter did have better action.

 

Unsure about what Alexa getting squashed at the following RAW means for her, but as far as the feud goes, that was dope.

I'd guess she goes back to SDL and monday was her final rub to Nia. Plus, I didn't think it so bad, because of all the abusement she had taken on Sunday, she was still banged up from that and thus vulnerable.

[Slasher]

 

 

 

 

 

 

I have no problems with Asuka losing. The bigger issue to me is that she submitted. A streak ending on a finish so decisive seems overdone.

Would a screwjob have been better?

No, but a pinfall would have. The time to do the countout or DQ is on TV with someone like Alexa or Carmela. My point was that they still had more fuel left in that tank before they emptied it.

Looking back now it just seems odd to have Asuka lose her streak and then two days later Charlotte drops the title.

 

For me I feel they had more mileage on a undefeated Womens WWE Champion. But being Wrestlemania im not sure how they would preserve the streak if Asuka doesnt win but stays undefeated without a DQ or Countout.

I'd agree, but if you think about the bigger picture, you know they want to push Charlotte towards a Wrestlemania main event against Ronda Rousey. I'd hope they intend to make Ronda a female badass who doesn't lose very often, if at all, as her natural character should be invincible. Now if we go a year of Rousey running over the Raw roster, you need a convincing opponent for her match at Mania 35, how do you do that with the women? You make Charlotte nearly invincible too. She lost her belt after getting beat down by debuting workers. It isn't like she dropped the belt clean as whistle in a match that she expected to happen. They will most likely have Charlotte run through them and eventually the rest of the SD roster to get her ready for the Rousey match. Now maybe Triple H and Stephanie would have had Asuka be more protected if it was entirely up to them, but obviously its not. It's Vince's call. Vince still books like he thinks the girls he would rather fuck over girls he doesn't find attractive is the right way to book women, because clearly the only reason men watch women is we are hoping a tit pops out or something. That is what happens when you have a 70 year old juvenile teenager on top of the whole operation.

[khawk20]

 

I'd agree, but if you think about the bigger picture, you know they want to push Charlotte towards a Wrestlemania main event against Ronda Rousey.

 

It would be a solid move but I have my doubts that the WWE can be patient enough to let that build for a year.

It wouldn't surprise me if Summerslam or the Survivor Series is as long as they could execute a build between the two without feeling they had to have the match happen.

If they can do a full build to Mania that would be great, but I'm skeptical.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

 

I'd agree, but if you think about the bigger picture, you know they want to push Charlotte towards a Wrestlemania main event against Ronda Rousey.

 

It would be a solid move but I have my doubts that the WWE can be patient enough to let that build for a year.

It wouldn't surprise me if Summerslam or the Survivor Series is as long as they could execute a build between the two without feeling they had to have the match happen.

If they can do a full build to Mania that would be great, but I'm skeptical.

I think an easy first interraction is at Survivor Series as the captains of their respective teams who manage to never touch during the match. That is, if they want to keep treading water with Charlotte on Smackdown, which has been pretty tedious now for at least 6 months.

[Boss Rock]

 

 

I'd agree, but if you think about the bigger picture, you know they want to push Charlotte towards a Wrestlemania main event against Ronda Rousey.

It would be a solid move but I have my doubts that the WWE can be patient enough to let that build for a year.

It wouldn't surprise me if Summerslam or the Survivor Series is as long as they could execute a build between the two without feeling they had to have the match happen.

If they can do a full build to Mania that would be great, but I'm skeptical.

I think an easy first interraction is at Survivor Series as the captains of their respective teams who manage to never touch during the match. That is, if they want to keep treading water with Charlotte on Smackdown, which has been pretty tedious now for at least 6 months.

 

 

I was originally thinking they move Charlotte to Raw next week, but I could see her feuding with the IIconics (terrible trademark) and Alexa for a bit and then winning the Rumble next year. If they move her to Raw now, it may be tough to keep her and Ronda separate for a while.

[Gutenberger]

I'll just leave this here, it sums up the craziness that was WM 34 pretty good, I think.

 

[El-P]

This one won't age well. Not that it was any good or even fun last week (the "We want Nicholas" chants during Roman vs Lesnar were), but in the grand scheme of things, this is Judy Bagwell level of stupid. Again, I think it gets a pass, somehwat (as in "it was a cute Mania Moment^tm"), because it's WWE. Same stuff happening on Nitro in 1999, it would be a complete laughing stock and a token "WCW sucked" moment.

[sek69]

Well the Nicholas thing was clearly a one shot deal (I guess techincally two since he showed up on Raw to give up the belt), and Judy Bagwell was a thing that went on for weeks. People need to pump the brakes on the "This is WCW level" nonsense.

[Zoo Enthusiast]

It also gets a “pass” because Braun is over as fuck.

[Matt D]

Well the Nicholas thing was clearly a one shot deal (I guess techincally two since he showed up on Raw to give up the belt), and Judy Bagwell was a thing that went on for weeks. People need to pump the brakes on the "This is WCW level" nonsense.

 

I get where you're coming from but it is vaguely problematic that this was the payoffs to one of the only planned and built up surprises on the show, that it helped to buried the tag champs (and thus the belts), after Braun already went over the entire division in a battle royal, after they've done a decent enough job of keeping the belts at least sort of meaningful for the last couple of years. It also took ages for Braun to go get the kid which would have been fine on the pre-show but was death so late in the show.

[SomethingSavage]

I thought Cornette's breakdown of the Daniel Bryan match was pitch perfect.

 

It's one of those things that -while watching it in the moment, I could tell there was something weird and "off" about the structure of the match. But I couldn't quite express it or put my finger on it. Could've been exhaustion. Could've been apathy. Either way, I thought Corny nailed it. I know some people consider his rants & views on the business to be outdated. And, in some cases, that can be true. But I thought he put my own thoughts into words here and even offered the best possible alternative layout for this match.

[Log]

I thought Cornette's breakdown of the Daniel Bryan match was pitch perfect.

 

It's one of those things that -while watching it in the moment, I could tell there was something weird and "off" about the structure of the match. But I couldn't quite express it or put my finger on it. Could've been exhaustion. Could've been apathy. Either way, I thought Corny nailed it. I know some people consider his rants & views on the business to be outdated. And, in some cases, that can be true. But I thought he put my own thoughts into words here and even offered the best possible alternative layout for this match.

 

What did he say about it?

[El-P]

Well the Nicholas thing was clearly a one shot deal (I guess techincally two since he showed up on Raw to give up the belt)

 

 

... on the biggest show on the year in a match that was build toward "who is gonna be the surprise partner of Braun ?".

 

WCW level stuff, just like Roman's promo on RAW.

[sek69]

The whole point of the angle was that Braun didn't need or want a partner, Kurt was forcing him to have a partner, and in response he chose the most ridiculous person possible as a way of saying "fuck you". It's not WWE's fault that everyone was fantasy booking it to be Joe or Big Cass or whoever.

[Matt D]

If you set up an expectation in your fan base, it is your fault if people are disappointed.

[El-P]

If you set up an expectation in your fan base, it is your fault if people are disappointed.

 

This.

 

That being said, Nicholas was less a disapointment than Big Cass would have been... And it will end up being a reference for future gags and ironic chants, so I guess there's that.