C.S. Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 Is it possible your dislike of Asuka is coloring your view on her overness? Not at all. A bunch of other people jumped in to detail the rise and fall of Asuka, so that work is already done for me. Starting out over (and I'm not even sure she did that) and staying over are two different things. Look at Nakamura, who I was nuts about at first - the bloom was definitely off the rose within a couple of months, never mind the main roster. His heel turn has been entertaining so far though, so I'm cautiously optimistic. No one has bothered to address my main point: Was Asuka's streak ever as big, organic, and over as Goldberg's streak? No, not even close. It felt like forced "history making" because it was. Even the Tatanka and Ludvig Borga streaks had more juice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 No one has bothered to address my main point: Was Asuka's streak ever as big, organic, and over as Goldberg's streak? No, not even close. It felt like forced "history making" because it was. Even the Tatanka and Ludvig Borga streaks had more juice. Because it's two totally different things. Goldy's streak came in by beating JTTS every week on Nitro. It was a steady, conscious effort (past the faux-pas with McMichael at first) and was vital to Goldy's character. Sure, after a while he began to beat more names, but he was built as a squash-worker basically. Asuka's streak was that no-one could beat her in NXT, no challenger could take her and then no one on the main roster could take her down either. But it was not about squashing people, matches were always competitive. And it was only a part of her character, but not the entire character. Asuka was much more than her streak. For starters, she was a hell of a worker. And to deny she was over is, well, being in denial. She was over as fuck at Mania. I'd argue that Charlotte coming off her cold SD stint was the one was "wasn't that over", but she's such a great performer that it doesn't matter (add in the fabulous megastar intro she got too). Anyway the point is that of course it couldn't be the same as Goldy's streak. As far as Tatanka & Borga, the old 90's WWF fan in me is smiling, but honestly, this was a totally different era (so was Nitro, but it's still much closer in form to the current product). I don't remember when Tatanka being undeafeted began to really be a thing as part of his push, I do think it was important, although much more circumstancial. It's not like he was doing much after not getting the IC title from Michaels. Yes, Borga beating him seemed big at the time but really, when you look back at it, it was an angle to put Borga (and Yoko) over, Tatanka went nowhere after that point… Borga the Nazi didn't exactly set the world on fire at Survivor Series either after ending the streak. I doubt Asuka will suffer the same fate as Tatanka did, and Charlotte on the other hand looks like a big star again, which puts her on the way to a big match with Rousey, so really you can argue than yes, Asuka's streak was much more efficient. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 Have Asuka come back doing a Great Muta-like gimmick, like she lost it and went insane, killing people left and right. Pentagon on Lucia Underground except Stephanie is her higher power lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 "It was me Ronda ! It was me all along !" Hey. Could work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Man in Blak Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 Oh, sure, when I think of undefeated streaks in wrestling, I immediately think of Tatanka's thrilling countout win against Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania IX and his five-minute marathons with Rick Martel. I mean, did anything have more juice than "The Narcissist" Lex Luger earning a bigger babyface pop than Tatanka after a fifteen-minute draw at King of the Ring '93? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 "It was me Ronda ! It was me all along !" Hey. Could work. If they're ripping off Austin/Vince they could do a nice mixture of that and Big Show appearing in the cage for the big reveal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 When has an undefeated streak in wrestling actually ended on a good note? Or at least a net positive? Seems like there's never any real residual benefit after a streak is broken. Am I overlooking one that led to really strong business somewhere? I mean, I could be forgetting something obvious. And I guess people would automatically point to Brock/Taker being a decent enough decision in the rear view, but I don't know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 I mean it could be worse. They could have spent 2 years having her go undefeated and then job her to a 46 year old woman who means basically nothing to modern fans and then barely mention it on commentary. That also happened over the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomethingSavage Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 What a fucking weird weekend for wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 I kind of understand what they were doing there. It's all a misdirection so the booker doesn't look like he made a vanity title for his girlfriend. He did but he's pretending like he didn't. But that's off topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 I thought that was cool, if only because Sakai was an old favourite of mine dating back to the Jd' days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmmnx Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 Not at all. A bunch of other people jumped in to detail the rise and fall of Asuka, so that work is already done for me. The fall? She just had the second best match at Mania, and the best match of Charlotte's career that didn't involve Sasha. It's not like she's Bayley or anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 EDIT - Sorry, just learned how to upload an image into here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert S Posted April 11, 2018 Report Share Posted April 11, 2018 Have Asuka come back doing a Great Muta-like gimmick, like she lost it and went insane, killing people left and right. Pentagon on Lucia Underground except Stephanie is her higher power lol So who is this Lucia that Pentagon got on? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Microstatistics Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 Man, that dent in Roman's forehead was something else. Also, Nakamura's interview from Smackdown was pitch perfect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthedoctor Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 Are we forgetting that Asuka had a hard time fighting the bumbling duo of Emma and Dana back in NXT? Struggling to beat Nia is not something that I would say was detrimental to her aura, when more than once she won by the skin of her teeth. Either we are overblowing her portrayal in NXT, or overstating her treatment in the main roster. To me, their only real fuck up was having her almost thank Charlotte for beating her. Considering how they didn't address that at all on her end yesterday... kinda bad. I was expecting Asuka to challenge for the Raw Womens title when she won the Rumble. Raw always has been made out to be the bigger show and if Nia was squashing everyone in her path and decimated Bliss at the Rumble show making her look unbeatable then Asuka comes in I think would have been a better choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richeyedwards Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 Something I love about heel nakamura is the odd way he does low blows, they are like firemans carry low blows. Also his shit-eating grin was perfect during both the promo and the postmatch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowboy hats Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 I know it’s a live action cartoon, a lot of time for the kids, but good God, Charlotte’s promo wardrobe is brutal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.S. Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 No one has bothered to address my main point: Was Asuka's streak ever as big, organic, and over as Goldberg's streak? No, not even close. It felt like forced "history making" because it was. Even the Tatanka and Ludvig Borga streaks had more juice. Because it's two totally different things. Goldy's streak came in by beating JTTS every week on Nitro. It was a steady, conscious effort (past the faux-pas with McMichael at first) and was vital to Goldy's character. Sure, after a while he began to beat more names, but he was built as a squash-worker basically. Asuka's streak was that no-one could beat her in NXT, no challenger could take her and then no one on the main roster could take her down either. But it was not about squashing people, matches were always competitive. And it was only a part of her character, but not the entire character. Asuka was much more than her streak. For starters, she was a hell of a worker. And to deny she was over is, well, being in denial. She was over as fuck at Mania. I'd argue that Charlotte coming off her cold SD stint was the one was "wasn't that over", but she's such a great performer that it doesn't matter (add in the fabulous megastar intro she got too). Anyway the point is that of course it couldn't be the same as Goldy's streak. As far as Tatanka & Borga, the old 90's WWF fan in me is smiling, but honestly, this was a totally different era (so was Nitro, but it's still much closer in form to the current product). I don't remember when Tatanka being undeafeted began to really be a thing as part of his push, I do think it was important, although much more circumstancial. It's not like he was doing much after not getting the IC title from Michaels. Yes, Borga beating him seemed big at the time but really, when you look back at it, it was an angle to put Borga (and Yoko) over, Tatanka went nowhere after that point… Borga the Nazi didn't exactly set the world on fire at Survivor Series either after ending the streak. I doubt Asuka will suffer the same fate as Tatanka did, and Charlotte on the other hand looks like a big star again, which puts her on the way to a big match with Rousey, so really you can argue than yes, Asuka's streak was much more efficient. I can agree that Asuka was more than her streak, but the streak and forced "history making" propped her up. Asuka is smoke and mirrors. Without the streak, she'd be face Nakamura in the fans' eyes. Even with it, the fans cared about her a lot less than the top 5 female acts and even an ice cold Bayley. As for Tatanka, this is being nitpicky, but I think people cared after his streak. The Tatanka/Lex "you sold out" program and subsequent heel turn were pretty big deals. I'd argue that he faltered right after the heel turn, which clearly didn't work past the actual act at SummerSlam. You're right about Charlotte going into Mania cold, but that's because she is badly miscast as a babyface. There's nothing likeable about her and no reason to cheer her. Despite the deficits both Asuka and Charlotte brought to WrestleMania, they still had a hell of a match and the result was a genuine shocker, so there's that. Oh, sure, when I think of undefeated streaks in wrestling, I immediately think of Tatanka's thrilling countout win against Shawn Michaels at Wrestlemania IX and his five-minute marathons with Rick Martel. I mean, did anything have more juice than "The Narcissist" Lex Luger earning a bigger babyface pop than Tatanka after a fifteen-minute draw at King of the Ring '93? As you should! Not at all. A bunch of other people jumped in to detail the rise and fall of Asuka, so that work is already done for me.The fall? She just had the second best match at Mania, and the best match of Charlotte's career that didn't involve Sasha. It's not like she's Bayley or anything. We're not talking about kayfabe rasslin' results. As pointed out by numerous people in this thread, Asuka's presentation waned pretty early on. Besides, I'd argue that people care more about Bayley - even now, even when she's ice cold - than they do about Asuka. People want Bayley vs. Banks. People want Bayley to matter again. People would gladly trade Asuka's forced "history making" streak for another good Bayley run. The time they could have spent capitalizing on genuinely hot acts they had - like Bayley and Sasha Banks - were instead wasted on forced "history" and a boring streak that was barely over. I think losing the streak will be the best thing that ever happens to Asuka. She'll never be a star on the level of Ronda Rousey, the Four Horsewomen (either version), or Alexa Bliss, but she has a niche she can fill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FMKK Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 What is all of this based on other than extrapolating your own distaste for her streak onto the entire fan base? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 I've never once watched Asuka on TV or in person and thought "You know what? She's not really that over". It's not smoke and mirrors, she's over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 I know it’s a live action cartoon, a lot of time for the kids, but good God, Charlotte’s promo wardrobe is brutal. WIth her being so much taller than everyone, it looked like the Iconic Duo was beating up Big Bird. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KawadaSmile Posted April 12, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 WIth her being so much taller than everyone, it looked like the Iconic Duo was beating up Big Bird. Jesus, dude. But to be honest, Charlotte being bigger actually added to the visuals of the Iconic Duo dragging her dead weight to the ring. Kind of like slaying a giant. On that matter, I'd say the beatdown started on the mic. They KILLED Charlotte's face promos to the point where if she does that again, she'll be proving the heels right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Thread Killer Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 You have to admit, beating up Big Bird is a good way to get heel heat. Except with me, I never liked that damn creepy bird. I was more of an Oscar the Grouch mark. He was like the ECW style of Sesame Street. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted April 12, 2018 Report Share Posted April 12, 2018 You have to admit, beating up Big Bird is a good way to get heel heat. Except with me, I never liked that damn creepy bird. I was more of an Oscar the Grouch mark. He was like the ECW style of Sesame Street. It was all about the Count and that two headed monster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.