Is TNA the worst wrestling promotion in history?

[subatomic_elbow]

I have to say, Rebel looks like a good pickup for them. She has a different look than their other Knockouts and is very attractive. Do take my opinion on this with a grain of salt, I have a raging crush on ODB for some reason.

[fakeplastictrees]

Is the same group writing for them today that was back in '12? I remember even the smarkiest of smarks really enjoying the TV they were putting on. It was better than WWE's in a lot of instances.

 

Conway and Lagana were there, but John and Christy weren't. Russo left in Feb of 2012 and there were rumblings of Bully Ray popping into creative meetings. 2012 had a lot of solid points, but TNA fell back into some pits.

 

It's amazing to think that Rob Terry has been kept around while Styles, Daniels, and Kazarian have been given their walking papers.

[SomethingSavage]

To be fair and frank, they weren't actually given their walking papers. Styles opted to walk when he was offered what he felt was too low a number on his contract renewal. Can't fault the guy for that, and yeah. You'd think the company would put more weight & stock into - ya know - their freaking World Champion and "go-to" company man.

 

Daniels and Kazarian had finally carved themselves an entertaining niche as reputable, recognizable heels. I really hate that they're gone, but they were phased out of anything substantial a long, LONG time before their actual departure. So it wasn't as big a loss as someone like Styles, ultimately.

 

But yeah. Regarding the creative comment, I've heard a lot of praise given to Conway for his contributions around that time. Russo had left, and I think that showed. Bruce Prichard is another guy that kind of needs to be mentioned, since he was reportedly "head of creative" or whatever for most of his time there in 2012.

 

So yeah. 2012 had Prichard, Conway, Lagana, and I believe that's it. Big John hadn't yet veered his ugly mug, and Russo was absent. Christy's now involved with creative, but she hasn't been in there long enough to get (dis)credited with the crazy crap we've been stuck seeing on TV for months. Oh, and Russo's back as a "consultant" nowadays - whatever that means.

 

Going back to 2012 creative though, I read an interview with Bischoff, where he was talking about being present at a few creative meetings and emphasizing a new focus on more streamlined directions and wider, broader storyline arcs. I believe that played a big factor into their approach with things at that time as well. You HAVE to take notice of their attention to detail in some of their angles around that time. I don't think it's a coincidence that so many of them were given actual time to slow-burn, develop, and mature over time before being given a payoff.

That seemed to be the blueprint in almost all their successful stuff from around that time - Hogan/Sting at BFG 2011, Roode's title reign, the Roode/Storm saga, Aries' battle with Bully Ray leading him directly into the heavyweight ranks, the whole first half of the Aces & Eights deal, and even going back to the Abyss/Art of War stuff in the X Division - it all had this formula of patience and persistence within it.

 

I wish they'd go back to more of that, instead of the hot-shot knee-jerk reactionary booking we're seeing today. Part of me understands WHY they have to change things up, with the roster dwindling and withering away around them. But come on. I firmly feel that there's a REASON as to why 2012 was so good for them. And it goes back to that approach of giving the stories time to develop. It goes back to giving their characters space to grow and resonate. They just aren't doing that anymore.

[JaymeFuture]

Aces & Eights was pretty putrid, I couldn't call that successful. Roode's title reign and Storm saga are classic balls-ups where even if they had were thinking long term, they ultimately made the wrong moves at the wrong times and fucked themselves on both counts.

 

2012 was good for a period of a couple of months or so, I think TNA's problem now is that the fan's expectations have been coldly brought to reality that nothing that happens here will make a difference in the bigger world of wrestling. So they'll enjoy it for what it is and have a far more limited emotional investment because it's just content to watch. Nothing more and nothing less.

[goodhelmet]

Lockdown 2013 is the only show I have ever attended where I felt like I wasted my time by going to the show. Maybe the worst show I have ever attended live and that includes a NItro that had one of Eric Bischoff's Night Caps.

[W2BTD]

 

Is the same group writing for them today that was back in '12? I remember even the smarkiest of smarks really enjoying the TV they were putting on. It was better than WWE's in a lot of instances.

 

Conway and Lagana were there, but John and Christy weren't. Russo left in Feb of 2012 and there were rumblings of Bully Ray popping into creative meetings. 2012 had a lot of solid points, but TNA fell back into some pits.

 

It's amazing to think that Rob Terry has been kept around while Styles, Daniels, and Kazarian have been given their walking papers.

 

 

Those guys had good contracts, Rob Terry is likely on a very cheap per appearance deal.

[SomethingSavage]

Kind of curious to see if Rob Terry has picked up any valuable lessons since his last stint. Guy's spent as much time working OVW and Wrestle-1 as he has on the actual TNA roster by this point. Found it a bit bizarre that they'd re-intro him as some "new" anonymous dude under a hood, since they seemed SO high on the guy at one time. But I seriously doubt he dazzles anyone too much, so there's also that.

[shakla]

 

 

Is the same group writing for them today that was back in '12? I remember even the smarkiest of smarks really enjoying the TV they were putting on. It was better than WWE's in a lot of instances.

 

Conway and Lagana were there, but John and Christy weren't. Russo left in Feb of 2012 and there were rumblings of Bully Ray popping into creative meetings. 2012 had a lot of solid points, but TNA fell back into some pits.

 

It's amazing to think that Rob Terry has been kept around while Styles, Daniels, and Kazarian have been given their walking papers.

 

 

Those guys had good contracts, Rob Terry is likely on a very cheap per appearance deal.

 

 

Or, to put it another way, Terry was more willing to work on a low-end per appearance deal. I'm sure they would take any of those guys back if they agreed to a pay cut.

[JaymeFuture]

Not to be too much of a dolt on the subject of steroids or growth hormone, but I would imagine looking like Rob Terry costs a fair bit to maintain? Surprised he took a low offer in that sense...

[artDDP]

Not to be too much of a dolt on the subject of steroids or growth hormone, but I would imagine looking like Rob Terry costs a fair bit to maintain? Surprised he took a low offer in that sense...

It's not cheap to maintain but he's also active in the bodybuilding and fitness industry and I imagine very popular in his native Wales. He's probably got some money coming in from his modeling work. The cost in food to maintain that physique alone is not easy for a per-appearance pro wrestler. He's likely able to leverage his celebrity into expensive personal training sessions, too.

[ButchReedMark]

Not that popular here at all, really. But they've never really pushed his Welshness. It's not like Mason Ryan where they'd have him speak Welsh or mention the tiny village of Tremadog where he's from and was already known as a Welsh figure before signing, especially in the super patriotic Welsh speaking circles.

[artDDP]

Not that popular here at all, really. But they've never really pushed his Welshness. It's not like Mason Ryan where they'd have him speak Welsh or mention the tiny village of Tremadog where he's from and was already known as a Welsh figure before signing, especially in the super patriotic Welsh speaking circles.

Well, then he's either making enough money to afford food and supplements from his career or he's going broke trying to pay for all of it.

[sek69]

Meltzer mentioned in one of last week's shows that from what he's been able to gather from speaking to folks in the company, very few people in TNA are making decent money.

[SomethingSavage]

Konnan and Court Bauer are friends with a few guys there, and they've both mentioned on MLW radio at times that some in the company are working for 30 grand a year & less.

[shakla]

Konnan and Court Bauer are friends with a few guys there, and they've both mentioned on MLW radio at times that some in the company are working for 30 grand a year & less.

 

Wrestlers and/or office types?

[SomethingSavage]

Wrestlers locked into deals and signed to contracts.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Konnan and Court Bauer are friends with a few guys there, and they've both mentioned on MLW radio at times that some in the company are working for 30 grand a year & less.

Am I supposed to feel bad for someone making 30 grand a year now? I know it's not being rich , but it's not exactly being poor.

[BillThompson]

 

Konnan and Court Bauer are friends with a few guys there, and they've both mentioned on MLW radio at times that some in the company are working for 30 grand a year & less.

Am I supposed to feel bad for someone making 30 grand a year now? I know it's not being rich , but it's not exactly being poor.

 

 

You factor in bills, debt, family and such, and 30 a year is being poor, the fact that most government officials don't recognize this continues to be a major problem for the economy.

[cm funk]

especially for an indy wrestler/contractor ....TNA isn't covering travel expenses, they aren't paying for health care or insurance, TNA guys don't get a per diem for basic shit like food....you factor all that stuff in.....that 30k is a lot less when you factor that stuff in. For a job like pro-wrestling, on a national level.....it's laughable. You could make the same money working at McDonalds and not risking permanent injury every night

[WingedEagle]

 

Konnan and Court Bauer are friends with a few guys there, and they've both mentioned on MLW radio at times that some in the company are working for 30 grand a year & less.

Am I supposed to feel bad for someone making 30 grand a year now? I know it's not being rich , but it's not exactly being poor.

 

 

Yes, if they're working hard for it and don't have other options. I don't know where that qualifies as a comfortable living.

[goc]

I make a good deal more than that at my job, and while it is physically demanding, it's nowhere near as physically demanding as being a wrestler. Especially when the company doesn't seem to run that many house shows but doesn't really let their talent take other bookings.

[FightingOkra]

At this point, even with a national tv deal, why would any wrestler sign with TNA?

[shakla]

In part from being a private company, it's tricky to figure out the truths with TNA. For the workers who are making around $30K and/or work on a per appearance deal, I would assume and hope they can supplement their income. Whether it be from a second job, royalties, conventions, etc. The way TNA's taping schedule is, talent probably has a lot of downtime and gaps to work something else in. Not saying it's an ideal situation. It looks bad image-wise to know that workers on a show with decent production values on a national cable network are making less than a typical assembly line worker. But I doubt more than a small % of wrestling fans know about TNA's payoffs.

 

On the private company front, I wonder about 2 things:

 

What is TNA's estimated annual revenue? We will never get an exact figure, but what do you all think the ballpark is? $25 million? $50? Less?

 

What is the net worth of the Carter family? Lots of columnists pass off them being billionaires, but I've never seen any concrete proof of that. Panda Energy being a private company makes it tricky. I don't doubt the family is wealthy, but billionaires? Not sure about that.

[sek69]

A few years back Bob Carter was worth an estimated $4 billion, I can't imagine someone would be in his line of work for as long as he has and not be that rich at least. That's why TNA has been around as long as it has, them losing millions is a drop in the bucket for the family. In fact, Bob probably considers it the cost of doing business just to keep Dixie occupied so she won't get any ideas of trying to run the company.

[Blehschmidt]

I was told by a wrestler who worked there for several years, and still has friends in the office, that TNA has lost 276 Million dollars in the time it has been owned by the Carter Family/Panda Energy.

 

Whether that is true or not, I can't tell you, but I thought I would toss it out there since it fits with the current discussion in this thread.