Is TNA the worst wrestling promotion in history?

[Blehschmidt]

 

 

Dixie Carter is basically the Herb Abrams of a new generation. Only with saggy tits, a wonky eye, less cocaine and more money.

 

I do believe that is the perfect answer to the question posed by the thread title, and my new favorite wrestling message board quote ever.

[cm funk]

I haven't watched much of TNA in recent years. I've given up on that company several times, and then I'll tune back in and last a few weeks before I remember why I stopped watching it. Meltzer seems to think that RUSSO is back writing for them. I have no words to describe how sad and predictable that is. Dixie Carter is beyond clueless. How many times does Russo need to fail?

[goc]

The "Is Russo back in TNA or not" has been speculated a bit with nothing confirmed, but it definitely feels that way looking at all the tapings they did in England.

[cm funk]

I actually think it's smart of TNA to rid themselves of high priced talent like Hogan, Sting, Angle etc. etc. With what their business model is right now it doesn't make any sense to keep people like that around. If I was in charge I'd do the same thing. They draw their best houses in the UK and Europe because fans there are starving for live wrestling. TNA gets outdrawn by well promoted indy shows in the states. None of these "big stars" draws houses for them, or moves ratings.....and PPV? They barely even run PPV anymore, and their best drawing show was Samoa Joe and Kurt Angle with straight up old school "this guy and this guy will fight" promotion.

 

I'll actually give Russo a little credit in that he trys to push new talent and fresh talent. He does it horribly most of the time, but I'll give him that. The idea that in 2014 he'd be booking the defacto #2 promotion in the US is insane. I think the most telling thing is that Wrestle-1 is apparently super pissed that Russo is back in the picture, and they have no interest in working with him or sending talent to TNA. I'm sure Mutoh remembers how shitty WCW under Russo was back in like 99 or 00, whenever he did that short run with them.

 

I'd like to see TNA try and build from the ground up with their product, build their own thing very separate from the WWE, but with idiots like Dixie and Russo running the show I have zero faith in that company. Even somebody like Ethan Carter III, who I like and thought WWE made a mistake releasing......why is he wrestling and beating Sting within months of his debut? Of all the things you could do with Sting on his way out.....that's what they decided on?

 

Is Jeff Hardy still around? I figure it's a given he'll go back to WWE sooner than later.

[Jimmy Redman]

Jeff is still around, and looks to be debuting his Willow the Wisp character in TNA. There's a vignette floating around that I can't be bothered to find, but it's on Youtube.

[shakla]

Dixie "It's good publicity" Carter and Vince "retired from wrestling more times than the Funks" Russo.

[cheapshot]

They draw their best houses in the UK and Europe because fans there are starving for live wrestling.

 

In my "local" city alone I can most likely see 2 TNA shows, 2 WWE shows and maybe 1 UFC show a year, so I refute the claim that we are starved and that's the reason for the bigger houses, and that's not even discussing the local indy shows that run REALLY regularly.

[Jimmy Redman]

The UK gets two TV tapings a year from WWE. Most cities in America except the major markets are lucky to get one.

[El-P]

Dixie Carter is basically the Herb Abrams of a new generation. Only with saggy tits, a wonky eye, less cocaine and more money.

 

Hilarious !

[Dwide Schrude]

The UK gets two TV tapings a year from WWE. Most cities in America except the major markets are lucky to get one.

Yes, but you are comparing the entire United Kingdom to a city in America.

[goodhelmet]

Eh, it's smaller than Texas.

[Robert S]

UK: 63.2 Mio. people, Texas: 26.5 Mio. people; even if it's "just" England you are talking about 53 Mio. people.

[goodhelmet]

I am just talking size.

 

Texas = 268581 square miles

UK = 93000 square miles

[rainmakerrtv]

"In America, they think 100 years is a long time. In England, they think 100 miles is a long way."

[Robert S]

I am just talking size.

 

Texas = 268581 square miles

UK = 93000 square miles

Which makes the UK just the more attractive to run in.

[cm funk]

Maybe "starved for live wrestling" wasn't the best way to put it, but there's definitely something to it. I know that there are small indy feds, but that's not the same as having the top televised promotions come to your country a couple times a year. Maybe "starved to see the televised wrestling live" would be more appropriate. WWF/E has always drawn well there, WCW would draw surprisingly well, and it's TNA's best market. The ROH shows over there years ago drew 1,500-2000, and they didn't even have a tv show at the time, let alone UK tv (was some of it shown on TWC?). I think it was NOAH that ran UK shows a few times, they must have drawn reasonably well.

 

I live in the North East....it's the most populous area of the country, and I could go to at least a dozen WWE shows every year if I wanted to, between Boston, New York, NJ, Philly, Pittsburgh, Connecticut and all the other towns they run. And that's without even mentioning all the indys that run this part of the country. WWE next month is running MSG, Uniondale, Atlantic City, Trenton, Brooklyn, Binghamton and Boston....all within driving or train distance for me. In most of the populated areas of the country if you don't mind making some road trips, between tv and house shows, you can go to a lot of WWE live events. "Flyover states" have it the worst, but even most of them get a couple WWE shows a year, and again if you don't mind traveling you could go to more. I'd say the Dakotas, Montana, Idaho and that whole area get the least shows, but they still get some. And honestly, the crowds in a lot of these places come off bad on tv. There's a lot of bad crowds in the midwest and south for WWE tv tapings. So you can't blame them for running in their hottest cities more than they do in other places.

 

TNA has tried to run a lot of these midwest and southern areas and towns that WWE doesn't go to often.....and they can't draw....which is partly TNA's ineptness and partly these just not being hot wrestling markets at this time

[rvd356]

C'mon 'Worst Promotion Ever'? On the same planet that WOW, GLOW, XPW and MLW all existed on? TNA may be bad and bad 80% of the time but the other 20% of the time they are having great matches and or good enough feuds. I could name 100 great TNA matches. Just a few(all different styles too, not just X division stuff either).

 

AJ Styles vs. Psicosis vs. Jerry Lynn vs. Low Ki - TNA PPV #2, X Title finals, round robin match

AJ Styles vs. Jeff Jarrett vs. Raven - TNA PPV 2003, NWA Title

Michael Shane vs. Kazarian vs. Chris Sabin - Ultimate X I

AJ Styles vs. Petey Williams vs. Chris Sabin - Final Resolution 2005, Ultimate X Title

AJ Styles vs Christopher Daniels - Against All Odds 2005, 30 Minute Iron Man match

AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe - Sacrifice 2005, X Title shot

Raven vs. Rhyno - Unbreakable 2005, NWA Title, No Holds Barred

AJ Styles vs Samoa Joe vs Christoper Daniels - Unbreakable 2005, 3 Way X Title match

Sabu vs Abyss - Turning Point 2005, Barbed Wire

AJ Styles vs. Samoa Joe

LAX vs. Styles/Daniels - Tag Titles, Ultimate X & Cage Match

 

Jump ahead...

Sting vs. Kurt Angle - Bound For Glory 2007

Kurt Angle vs Scott Steiner - 2007 PPV?

Scott Steiner vs Samoa Joe - No Surrender 2008(? Not sure about the PPV exactly but it was Steiner being Steiner and his best match since WCW folded

Kevin Nash vs Samoa Joe - Turning Point 2008

Kevin Nash vs Aj Styles - Victory Road 2009(Great big vs. Little match, both matches were Nashs' best since the 1st WWF run)

 

I could go on all day but basically there's been way too many great matches in the history of TNA to call it the 'worst promotion ever'. Joe had one of the best run's 05/06 of great matches and great booking of any wrestler of all time, despite what happened in '07 and on. He was easily my favorite wrestler on the planet. AJ Style & Daniels carved out great careers they would never have had in WWE( or WCW maybe had it stayed open). LAX was THE best tag team of the last decade, barring maybe the Hardy Boys for longeity and influence. But easily #2 with the best tag team gimmick(Konnan was easily the best tag team manage of the decade also). Steiner and Nash actually got to be themselves and have good matches unlike in WWE. And last of all we got a decade more of full time Sting for all of us old WCW fans. Basically like the 2nd run of Shawn Michaels but with Sting. Way more than we thought we would get, and way better than we thought we would get.

 

If you actually watched TNA for the past 12 years, you would see a lot of good stuff.

[cheapshot]

Talking about MLW, wasn't it created initially to be a sort of US version of All Japan and to be used as a developmental type league for the promotion before they basically became an ECW clone?

[Matt D]

I miss WOW. I don't think I would ever miss TNA.

[goc]

The thing about WOW, GLOW, XPW and MLW is that they didn't stay around long enough to REALLY wear out their welcome. Maybe XPW did, but even then there were still some people very into XPW, I remember a guy who for years was on DVDVR trying to put together some XPW documentary. They also never really had any potential to be a viable national promotion where guys could go and actually make money. TNA gets the worst ever label because of never getting anywhere close to meeting their potential.

[Dylan Waco]

I would listen to an argument for XPW being worse, but when you consider the relative opportunities and chances both have had, I don't know that I could be convinced.

 

TNA has been around for a long time, so it stands to reason that they have had some good stuff. I would say from 05-07 they had some very good periods and/or matches, but I can't remember any point where I thought they were consistently having good matches, good storylines and good overall presentation. Since Don West left they have been nearly unwatchable to me.

[Sidebottom]

XPW was just something of its time. When you factor in that their Zenith was an American contract signing between Onita / Sabu for a match which didn't even happen, it sums up what potential it had to be a viable player in the wrestling world. An alternative payday for Indy wrestlers who couldn't find work in the big leagues was all it ever was IMO.

[S.L.L.]

C'mon 'Worst Promotion Ever'? On the same planet that WOW, GLOW, XPW and MLW all existed on? TNA may be bad and bad 80% of the time but the other 20% of the time they are having great matches and or good enough feuds. I could name 100 great TNA matches. Just a few(all different styles too, not just X division stuff either).

....

Raven vs. Rhyno - Unbreakable 2005, NWA Title, No Holds Barred

....

 

I seem to recall I reviewed this match back when it happened.

 

 

We make with the foreign objects shots early on, including Rhino getting busted open nice with a pizza cutter. They seem to be working the storyline of Raven being more familiar with this match type and thus having the advantage, though how a Raven's Rules match is so radically different than the standard rules of the promotion that Rhino was champion of is beyond me. The match almost immediately devolves into a sub-WWE Hardcore Title match, as Rhino picks up a "7500 pound" beer keg (courtesy Don West), and proceeds to hit Raven with it. The keg makes a sound like a steel drum and bounces when it hits the ground, so I guess that's the weight of the keg itself. Then again, there's more than one person on this show I can envision drinking 7500 lbs. of beer before they went on the air. On the plus side, Rhino has some good punches that I never really noticed before. He makes a comeback and they seem to be working the match as Raven the Weapon-User vs. Rhino the Striker, which is an interesting route to go with this. Rhino kicks a garbage can into Raven's face, and Raven is nice enough to hold it in place for him. Don West says that he held it "for protection". This probably isn't a spot you want to direct attention to, Don. Rhino misses a splash and lands on a chair, allowing Raven to brawl his way back to control. Raven sets up the drop toe hold into the chair, but Rhino charges and facebusts him hand-first into the chair. This is becoming real embarrassing real fast. Raven's follower Cassidy Reilly comes down, and the ref tries to eject him. The ref is too distracted trying to prevent a run-in in a match with no disqualifications to see that Raven is pinning Rhino. Don West sez, "This is brutal, folks!". On that, I agree. We're into the final run, and this can't end soon enough for me. Jeff Jarrett runs in (to the disinterest of the referee), and just sorta stares at Raven with the belt in his hand. Before he can decide whether or not he actually wants to hit him with it, Jeff Hardy runs in (ENOUGH ALREADY!!!!!!!!!) and swipes it away. Thoroughly distracted by Hardy's brightly colored plumage (for attracting mates), he falls prey to the Raven Effect. Rhino attempts one of his own on Raven, but Raven counters it. He hits the move himself, and mercifully, the match is over. Unless there's something particularly painful that I've blocked out of my memory, this is the worst match I've seen this year. I watched it so you won't have to. You can thank me later.

 

 

Yeah, I don't know that we share the same standards of "great"...but at the same time, there are plenty of good-great TNA matches that I can think of that you didn't list, like the Storm/Harris Texas Death Match or some of the better Jarrett/Angle matches or the Flair/Foley Last Man Standing Match or Bully Ray/AJ Styles or Austin Aries' great run two years ago. Really, if you want to argue a 1:4 good/bad ratio for TNA over their history, that's an argument I'd listen to.

 

It's also an argument I think would've helped TNA a lot more if they had the decency to go out of business after a year/a few years like every other promotion competing with them for this dubious honor. I think the AWF might have had a 1:4 good/bad ratio, too, and I've read a few people look back at them semi-fondly. I can't imagine them maintaining that over nearly 12 years without ever really getting any better and people still thinking fondly of them. TNA has a problem unique to "worst wrestling promotion ever" contenders, and on the one hand, it gives them room to add positives to their case that other contenders don't have, but on the other hand, it makes their consistent badness all that more glaring and offensive. TNA producing 80% bad wrestling throughout their history means they produced more bad wrestling than WOW produced any wrestling by a very large margin.

 

Let me put it to you this way...I've seen more than a few good-great Kane matches. Quite a number that I've genuinely enjoyed. The London street fight with MVP, for example, that's a match I really liked, and there are others, but most of the time...man, is that guy horrible. Still, he's had good matches, and that's more than I can say for Jenna Morasca. But Jenna Morasca was a barely trained non-wrestler who had a whopping one - admittedly terrible - match. In the grand scheme of things, she's so inconsequential that I can't imagine mustering the outrage necessary to call her the worst wrestler ever, or even one of the worst wrestlers ever. Kane? I probably wouldn't call him the worst, but seems like a much more worthy contender for that title with 20+ years of consistent badness under his belt than Morasca does with a single match.

[El-P]

Let me put it to you this way...I've seen more than a few good-great Kane matches. Quite a number that I've genuinely enjoyed. The London street fight with MVP, for example, that's a match I really liked, and there are others, but most of the time...man, is that guy horrible. Still, he's had good matches, and that's more than I can say for Jenna Morasca. But Jenna Morasca was a barely trained non-wrestler who had a whopping one - admittedly terrible - match. In the grand scheme of things, she's so inconsequential that I can't imagine mustering the outrage necessary to call her the worst wrestler ever, or even one of the worst wrestlers ever. Kane? I probably wouldn't call him the worst, but seems like a much more worthy contender for that title with 20+ years of consistent badness under his belt than Morasca does with a single match.

 

Yeah, pretty much. TNA also deserves the honor for being the most irrelevant pro-wrestling company ever. It only laster that long because some people are willing to lose money. They never drew shit. They never made one star. They aren't a blimp on the wrestling radar. Yet they have outlasted WCW already. It's amazing. (that also says something about the ultra-slow evolution, or should I say the status-quo in the pro-wrestling scene since 2001)

[rvd356]

I honestly haven't seen the Storm/Harris Death match but damned if I'm not gonna check it out now cuz I've heard about it for years. Same with Foley/Flair but I really liked their Summerslam '06 match and that's another reason I like TNA overall if I'm looking at all 12 years as once: the Legends/Veterans get to have feuds and matches that WWE would just not do for whatever reason(they don't make money).

 

But that's just it, I don't care if TNA makes millions in profit. I keep hearing this reasoning for why they are the "worst promotion ever". I'm not a panda energy shareholder or a Carter family member so I'm down with them infusing a fraction of their earnings into the only other free wrestling show on TV.

 

In comparison to the other truly shit feds I named, I would bet good money they never ever had a matchon the caliber of Samoa Joe/AJ Styles, Bobby Roode/Austin Aries or LAX/Daniels & Styles. I'd even throw in AWF and Global into this category of "not as good as TNA's best".

 

About Raven/Rhyno: I actually remember kinda liking it. It was a fun, harlmess garbagy brawl. And Most of all it was a *clear* alternative to WWE's PPV main event that month; Kurt Angle vs John Cena. And you can compare the rest of the card too. Daniels/Joe/StylesX title match blew WWE's midcard(IC) title match(Flair/Carlito) out of the water, yet Abyss/Sabu was run of the mill, where it's counterpart, Matt Hardy/Edge cage match was a near classic. Up and down the card you can compare matches but it just comes down to being an alternative to your common WWE.

 

Now of course that was TNA in it's "glory years" and 2014 is a different story. Nowadays WWE is picking up all the awesome Indy talent and making it their own: Danielson, Cesaro, Generico, Tyler Black, Moxley, Sydal which has been the #1 reason that WWE has been having so many kickass matches recently. TNA had that market cornered and now WWE has jumped in the game and snatched around 10 awesome talents that could have made TNA awesome too, but Dixie is too worried about getting her heel character over to worry about, you know, the wrestlers.